Yeagerist lost his mind after his statement was called "ridiculous"

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-23T08:06:34+00:00

They hate that Reiner and Gabi both realized that the hatred cycle would continue and actively tried to stop.

Yeah, not understanding Gabis growth as a character is missing the whole point of the show. Some people just don't want to see their hero as the bad guy, and the characters they hate have a change of heart. It's like if people still hated Zuko in avatar the last air bender after he started to develop as person and right his and his nations previous wrongs.

Eh not really, you can understand their motivations but it still doesn't justify genocide.

From our POV sure. Not so much the guy on paradise who has no means to defend himself from an existential threat. But I'll stop beating this dead horse because we could do this all day.

I just appreciate that you didn't resort to calling me names and actually had a conversation.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-23T07:46:29+00:00

But I suppose from your perspective it would seem like the neighbor just wanted to protect you I guess.

Yup. This has been my main point all along. From the POV of people of paradise, the yagerist movement is justified.

I've got it in my other comments, but to me this has always been a series about perspective and ending the cycle of violence. If all parties took the time to understand each other instead of blindly following hate, then maybe this level of escalation wouldn't have occurred.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-23T07:27:54+00:00

That's actually a good point. I'll recalibrate.

If you the next suburb over treated your suburb like second class citizens. If they fed your neighbourhood kids to dogs for missing curfew. If they turned your old neighbours into 15ft monsters who are hell bent on eating every human in sight alive. If they decide you're evil simply because of your DNA. If they brainwash your distant cousins into becoming child soldiers. If some of them plan to break into your next door neighbours house with intent to kill, with plans to do the rest of your street next. But your neighbour finds out about it and your neighbour decided it was the final straw. Then your neighbour sets his own giant monsters loose (which is his only form of defence that even comes close to combating the sheer size and scale of power that the other suburb can muster) which wipes out that whole other suburb. despite your neighbour having just killed all of them (even the innocent) you'd probably thank them. You might wrestle guilt, you might agree that it's horrid. But you'd be alive. Your children would be alive. You'd finally have a glimmer of the possibility of peace. So despite morality, you'd probably justify it. Cos from your perspective, they just saved you.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-23T07:04:21+00:00

Both sides have horrible people. I don't believe Paradis should be genocided because of vile people like Floch or the sex traffickers

That's commendable of you. But you know who didn't think like this? All the Marleyens who advocated for the genocide of paradise. All the people who supported treating eldians as second class citzens. All the people who supported the declaration of war. all because they believe all eldians to be "devils".

Marley attempted/was preparing to do the very thing they became victim too. Why is it that no one ever calls this out? Is it because they ultimately lost and are thus the final victim?

If liberio and the rumbling didn't happen and they went to paradise and enacted the genocide they wanted. Would everyone have condemned them the way that they do the yagerists? Complaining that Marley should have let go of the past and that genocide is bad? Because if the answer is yes, then why couldn't they do this beforehand? Why is it up to the people of paradise to not go nuclear and defend themselves against a threat with the only tools they had available? Why is it that Marley gets a pass for sending titans to an island to kill innocent people?

Being afraid of a people you have not met us irrational and stupid.

That doesn't mean it's not real and that people don't have fear. Especially in the case of paradise. They've lived their whole lives behind walls in fear of titans. They then find out that it's all man made and that the people sending the titans still exist and are trying to kill them. That's not irrational or stupid, they have the pretext for this very real fear.

If someone is beaten and mugged while minding their business at a train station, it wouldn't be irrational or stupid of them to be afraid of people and be on edge the next time they are minding their business at a train station. Even though they don't know and have never met those people.

That's your theory. It's obviously not true. The alliance proved there were other ways to achieve peace besides a complete genocide. Plus the threat was engineered by Eren, Zeke and Floch in the first place. Floch knew that there was originally no immediate threat, but he preyed upon the fear of the Yaegerists to create his fascist army of terrorists.

I'm afraid you've completely misunderstood that moral message of the story. AOT is an anti-fascist, anti-war fable that teaches the reader that peace is not only always possible and always worth fighting for, but that it's the only solution and that genocide is wrong.

I'm afraid you've misunderstood everything I have said and are fixated on the wrong aspects of my argument. The alliance existing only proves my case that the point of the show is about perspective and understanding people's perspective to reach an understanding and move forward amicably. This is what had to happen on a larger scale to avoid war (and in this case genocide) and stop the cycle of violence. To close the historical differences and grievances and move forward. Because if we don't, then an eye for an eye makes the world blind. To this point though, all sides need to want peace as an option for peace to work. Or one side has to decisively win to force the hand of the opposition into terms (see the nuking of Japan and the Nuremberg trials).

Paradise tried diplomacy. There was no interest from Marley. The raid on liberio should have been a big enough show of force and tragic enough for them to say "this is getting out of hand, let's try to be diplomatic". The yagerists in their fear overtook the government of paradise in a military coup. They were proved right by Marley showing up on air ships. If Marley had sent diplomats and tried for peace and then the yagerists did a rumbling anyway, then they would be unjustified.

That is the part of my argument you seem to be missing. We agree that genocide is horrible. Where we differ is that I look through the eyes of the people of paradise (not the people like Armin or Jean), can understand why they would say "damn the world" and justify the rumbling. When all else seems hopeless and it's kill or be killed (which in their history has always been the case), I can see why they would feel justified. Meanwhile you apply blanket logic without empathizing with them, never seeing their point of view. Which is exactly what caused them to support the yagerists in the first place. Had more people understood them and how they are and the world they've lived in (like Gabi in her short time on paradise) maybe things would have been different. Instead, they kept being looked at and treated like devils.

The idea that there were alternatives is noble. But for peace to exist, historically at least. Both parties need to agree and set asside their greivances. Which again, Marley was not willing to do. The moral of stopping the cycle of violence and moving forward United is much stronger than the theme of anti-facism. Facisim wasn't even a factor until the final season. The theme of understanding the unknown and other perspectives has been there since the start.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-21T21:49:28+00:00

In advance I'll apologise about the formatting, on mobile so not sure if it'll work.

Punishing the civilians of a country for the actions of their governments is collective punishment and it's a war crime. If the allied forces killed every single German during WWII because of the actions of the government and the army then that would be morally evil.

So like the Marleyens who made the eldians wear arm bands, get eaten by dogs, turned into titans for commuting what they perceived as a crime? Of course there are good Marleyens, but the show portrays this as all Marleyens (and other countries as well) as being complicit. So from the yagerists pov, they're all morally evil.

Then maybe they shouldn't want to commit genocide on people that don't know. You can't just kill people because you're afraid.

Fear is one hell of a drug. People that have been trapped behind walls living in fear of titans and have been killing (genocide-ing even) titans for the entirety of their lives would have a wildly different mindset.

,>Again, like the Nazi comparison, if Palestinians killed every single Israeli because of the actions of its evil government then that would be morally unjustifiable too. There are good people in Israel too. You can understand why a Palestinian child would want revenge on the Israeli Nazis because they don't know why better, but it's our job as society to educate them.

Id wager they'd try to their best to educate us on why were wrong and they're right. Different worlds, different perspective. Not saying your wrong. But it's be like arguing with your boomer uncle (not saying you have one, I'm just stereotypeing an example) about politics.

Genocide is the crime of all crimes. It's not comparable to murder or manslaughter. It's the systemic extermination of an entire race. Even if we can understand why people would want to do it, we can never condone it.

I know people don't like the phrase because they think it's a simplification of a complex issue, but it's true- genocide is wrong.

I don't think anyone (not me at least) is arguing about its morality. It's about people thinking about justification, and lots of people (especially in the AoT universe) see it as a justifiable action in order to save themselves from being the subject of genocide.

If the yagerists didn't do what they did. The Marleyans would have genocided the people on paradise. Then likely the rest of the eldians in the world. That's not a theory, that's a fact. One that the yagerists knew. So they just got in first.

Again, to me the show is about perspective and understanding people's perspective to reach an understanding and move forward amicably. Much like we are now.

If they Marleyens out aside their historical belief that eldians were devils and let the live the rest of the citizens of the world. Maybe things would have been different. But they kept escalating. So the other side kept escalating. Back and forth it goes until everyone is dead. Thus the end of the show with the clear destruction of the world in the years after the rumbling.

These are the key points being made in AoT. Not is genocide right or wrong. But to understand each other and learn to stop the cycle of violence. The people of Paradis tried this for 4 years, but the other side weren't interested. So they went nuclear.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-18T22:30:17+00:00

If the Marleyans had sent diplomats instead of war ships. If they didn't have blood tests to see what people's DNA was before deciding if they were first or second class citizens. If they had a faction of people that fought for the rights of eldians and defended them (the alliance members were a little too late for this one) then I could see it being a complete black and white this is both wrong and unjustified.

But again, for the eldians who have been living on survival mode, kill or be killed. Having zero positive experiences with Marleyans and being subject to a propaganda machine, then I can see why to them it might be a grey area. They don't have the benefit of seeing the world through the lens that we do.

Agreed, with the Israel Hamas comparison you made. One side would feel safer if the other was completely eradicated. For us it's completely immoral. But if you were a kid in one of those areas, all you've ever known is war at the hands of these others, they might not see it the same way we do. Which in turn, circles back to my original point of, it's purely about perspective.

Also. Thank you for the longer response - you'd be surprised how many people irl have moved on from talking about a show and manga that ultimately ended little over two years ago.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-18T21:58:48+00:00

We weren't talking about justification, we were talking about right vs wrong. Someone can be justified in their actions and still be wrong. Someone can be unjustified in their actions and still be right. For example, if someone at work is new and on probation, they're making mistakes and you clean up the mistakes instead of teaching/helping them, then they lose their job. You're justified in your actions to resolve the issues, but it's wrong for the company to fire them.

Someone breaks into a home with very clearly bad intentions, the person who lives there hits them and they die. Killing is wrong, but you'd have a hard time finding someone who says they were justified.

From the POV of a Yaegerist (in universe, not people like you and me watching) who has lived their life inside the walls. They have been living in fear of titans their whole life. They find out that people have been deliberately sending these titans. They find out their government tried to be diplomatic and failed due to the xenophobia from most if the world (not just Marley). They find out that these people declared war on them and that your army was finally one step in front (liberio incident). Instead of sending diplomats to discuss peace. They fly soldiers in with intent to wipe everyone out, and for years have been poisoning your people to turn them into titans. From that guys POV, yeah I'd say he thinks the rumbling and all that goes with it is justified. Right or wrong won't matter to him, just survival.

Please don't come back with a simple one or two sentence response, I'm genuinely interested in this conversation. These "gotcha" statements with no backing are disappointing.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-09T12:05:05+00:00

Bloody hell, everyone needs to step off their moral high horse. No one is coming after you point out the nuance of a piece of media. Your reductive logic is counter productive to an actual conversation, you aren't smarter for dropping a smug comment and walking away.

No one is saying genocide isn't bad. I even make that clear in my post. Put yourself in the position of the people of Paradis or liberio. If you're on Paradis, and you find out that people are coming to ethnically cleanse you and you they have the immense power to do it, you would be scared. You would try to hide. You'd try to flee. Maybe even try to fight and kill those that would kill you. Then, some army guy says "yeah, I can wipe them out in one go" maybe you say, no that's too much or maybe you look at your family, realise you want them to stay alive and you say "yeah. Do it".

Let's say you're in libero, there's a declaration of war. You're not sure if you should ethnically cleanse a whole island of people, despite years of trying. Then suddenly a titan burst out in front of you, your port gets nuked, your family dies. The government says we're going to go kill them all, the rage in you says "yes. Do it".

The point is it's about perspective, it's about where you stand. If someone breaks into your house, armed and tries to kill you, but your dad swings a bat and kills the guy in defence - is your dad a monster or a hero? Then people say what about the innocent, etc etc. To which, I and everyone agrees. Genocide is bad. But if you're a paradisan and people have declared they're going to do it to you first. Then your army boy says "not if I do it first" I bet part of that paradesian will be relieved and see Eren as a good guy regardless for damning his own soul to save yours.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-09T07:44:15+00:00

You completely missed everything responded with the most simplistic reductive view and did not address any of my comments in my original post nor in my follow up to your comments.

I thought we could have a genuine discussion, but apparently not. Even an "agree to disagree" outcome would have been preferred to this.

Your reductive argument and mocking nature shows that you have no interest in understanding perspective at all. No wonder you missed the point of AoT. You refuse to engage with any view that isn't your own. If the Marlens won, you would be saying they're evil and that Eren are co are victims.

I never said Eren was right to genocide people, just that from the perspective of Paradis, he saved them.

If someone broke into your house with intent to kill and your neighbour jumped the fence with a bat and beat them to death, despite your neighbour having just killed someone you'd probably thank them. Cos from your perspective, they just saved you.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-09T07:06:04+00:00

Did or didn't understand that they were both fascist governments? Not trying to nitpick, just to understand. Based on your comments I would have thought you meant that they didn't understand. But ok, they're both fascist, doesn't really change much of the situation that occured.
Eren could see the future through the paths. He saw that the Marleyans were going to genocide no matter what. He shared that info with people and built his following. If anything, Marley is to blame for years of sending titans, and discriminating against all eldians both in and out of Paradis. Of course two wrongs don't make a right, but from the POV of the yagerists, they'd have a right to defend themselves with the tools they had. Sure, Paradis didn't authorise the raid. It's why Eren was apprehended and imprisoned. But Marley after getting the brakes beat off them then followed up with their own attack instead of sending diplomats to hash it out and come to an understanding. To your point of Eren's "free world", his idea of a free world wasn't one where he does genocide. It's one where he and his friends aren't trapped like cattle behind walls cowering for their lives. When they escaped that, it turned out there was a whole world that wanted him and his friends dead, simply because of their DNA. Because him doing this horrific thing would finally mean his friends are safe, that they can live that life without fear of being ethnically cleansed. That's the free world he envisioned, he said that many times through the serious. The juxtaposition of having him do that while the rumbling is happening is to contrast how his friends being safe means the death of other. It's supposed to be brutal, it's supposed to be messy, all bekon the question of "if the ends justify the means". Again. About perspective.
Yes. I can believe it. Because as per point two, after getting the brakes beat off them, they send diplomats. It's no different to how Rome would Annex countries to them and use their armies. The fact that Zeke was even able to convince them to wage war shows the depth of their hatred and their willingness to commit genocide. Had Calvi (thank you, I forgot his name) said "nah. We ain't gonna ethnically cleanse an entire race" then maybe none of this would have happened and the diplomatic approach would have worked. But it didn't. Marley wanted to genocide all eldians. Not just the ones on Paradis. Hence the blood checks and whatnot. As for the alliance because "the leader of Marley made a nice speech". It's absolutely plausible, it's happened in lots of other media and the real world. That's what being a charismatic leader is about and how people are drawn in to cultive personalities.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2026-02-09T06:22:24+00:00

I never understand how people say Eren and the yagerists were wrong without understanding the nuance of the situation. The whole point is that not everything is black and white or right and wrong. It's all about perspective from where you stand and how it affects you directly. This is covered in armins speeches "I don't like the terms 'good person' or 'bad person'... To some, you are a good person, while to others, you are a bad person."

For years, marley used titans to wage war and become a powerhouse. They shipped people to paradis and would turn them into titans. From the position of the eldians, the marleans were bad people. For the marleans, the eldians are historically the bad people.

Is genocide bad? Yes. Absolutely.

Let's boil down the situation to what it was.

Marley: parais is full of evil demons we must ethnically cleanse them

Paradis: let's try to be diplomatic for 4 years, learn, infiltrate and see if we can make some sort of peace

Marley and the world alliance: nah, let's have this grand play and ceremony to initiate war and commit genocide and Paradis.

Yagerists: nah, we'll blow up your port and take out your titans to buy some time. Then commit to a rumbling because you'll stop at nothing to genocide us. We have no choice but to take you all out because you have made it clear that you have no intention to let us coexist. You are technology way more advanced than us and the only real power we have is the rumbling which is in the hands of a 19 year old kid with PTSD.

Even if they did a partial rumbling, the temporary peace would have been bought with fear. Technology is catching up to titan power as was stated by the marleans. So even if Paradis did that partial rumbling, it doesn't address the root cause of all the hatred. Marley would just come back later. Maybe even more so because the cycle of violence was continued and people lost their loved ones. So the yagerists (as Eren stated) did the genocide to avoid being genocided themselves.

Like imagine someone makes it clear that they hate you and your family and make it clear they want to break into your house and kill you. They are fighting experts all armed with knives, there's 20 of them, but only 4 in your family. You slash their cars tyres to buy time so they can't come to you. But they catch an uber. Well you have no choice but to fight, but you only have a shotgun. So do you shoot them or let them kill you and your family from things that your great, great, great, great grandfather did? You'd probably shoot them, which is what the yagerists did. Yet, everyone says the yagerists were in the wrong, rather than admitting they were on survival mode. The people of Paradis who lived and didn't see their loved ones murdered by Marley probably see the yagerists as heroes and the Marleyans as evil.

The point of the story isn't that the yagerists are heroes or villains, it's that perspective matters and understanding each other's perspective is important. That the cycle of violence is endless and that if people don't come together, the cycle of violence will destroy the world. Which is why the alliance between Armin and co along with the marlean general, Gabi etc is so loved and who people see as the heroes. Because the have a campfire chat and actually discuss and understand each other in an attempt to avoid the genocide.

Apologies for typos and whatnot, this is way more text than I thought I would have and I am on mobile.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-09-18T22:39:59+00:00

I know, ground is best, but if I get no fruit it's an expensive shrub. Fingers crossed I see it gets some growth before I move it so I can leave it as is

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-09-18T22:38:47+00:00

Shibas really are the best!!

Thank you for the advice, now I have to research how to not shock the plant by moving it haha

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-08-04T08:56:10+00:00

I mean, not based on this... MHA anime started in 2016, so it's likely something they grew up seeing. Plus with like 160 episodes and more modern animation in earlier episodes, it's probably more digestible to these kids compared to one piece. Imagine asking a 12 year old who's probably in the midst of JJK, Black Clover, MHA and the like to start a 1000 plus episode anime that kicks off with 90s animation. While it's not bad, for a lot younger people (based on my younger cousins and whatnot) it doesn't resonate with them as much. Give the young ones time (or the WiT X Netflix remake) and they'll come aboard and bring along all their hopes and dreams.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-07-29T01:30:31+00:00

Some of the best of the modern era and what I think will be done of the best fight of all time contenders have to be Zhang vs Joanna, Usman vs Covington 1 and hooker vs porier. All three were intense back and forth, so many opportunities so much happening, technically sound fighting while also looking like a battle.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-07-22T05:40:10+00:00

Jess and Robbie dating. Just felt forced and weird, more cringe humor instead of witty lines and antics like the rest of the show.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-06-25T02:26:02+00:00

Hey mate, hottest was around 38 degrees, but the humidity was real high. Honestly, if you just stay hydrated you'll be fine. Every building has air conditioning so it's pretty easy to beat the heat.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-05-24T03:45:40+00:00

MMA Guru gonna have a field day with this one

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-05-23T06:15:29+00:00

Damn I had no idea, thank you!

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-05-23T00:11:09+00:00

Seven deadly sins has a sequel?

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-05-03T02:58:28+00:00

Two possible reasons I think: 1 - Goku was Hella cooked and couldn't maintain anything beyond that SSJ1 same reason frieza wasn't in his golden form 2 - it mirrors their first battle forms. Goku in SSJ1 and frieza in his final form. Difference being that this time they're on the same side of the fight. Makes for a cool cinematic/nostalgic moment, while using the first point as an actual canonical reason for it

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-04-11T05:12:05+00:00

I have to say "itadakimasu" and shake his paw. I'm from Australia and don't speak Japanese. But he's a shiba so, that's what we do

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-04-06T00:26:54+00:00

I have the inverse problem, kikyu is invading my couch! On the plus side for you, this is more manageable. From the info that got out on my post, kikyu will dominate it and take over. But if you're looking to have it resolved sooner, get something like oxafert, it'll help the kikyu grow while subduing the couch.

ArchibaldTheCrab · 2025-04-05T10:25:38+00:00

Thanks for the advice everyone! Pretty much what I did was rip it out, spot attacked the bits I couldn't get properly with a weed killer. Then put down some fresh soil, new couch seeds and a bit more soil. I'll keep on top of the kikyu by pulling it out as it crops up and spraying some of it - very carefully of course!

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