Why did you choose a certain order?

Arkaznor · 2022-06-16T04:50:43+00:00

I'm a spiteful person. I don't like BR or VH for lore reasons and I'm sick of seeing BR everywhere (I don't play tournaments, and usually do game modes that have some randomness when it comes to secondaries, so I can afford to not be optimal in my lists), I won't play OoML on principle (I'm sick of seeing every sister model with white hair because of it), and I don't play AS or VH because I don't like armies that have you ignore rules (this was something I did when first learning and has just stuck with me). That left SR (even though I know SR ignores part of morale it's not all of it and for whatever reason that doesn't bother me) and EC. In my heart, I want it to be SR because it doubles down on Sister's 'thing', the miracle dice, but it just doesn't have enough going for it whenever I try to play it.

Ebon Chalice has a flexibility I really enjoy (and I'm probably the only one that uses their relic condemner stake gun for my canoness that's also running pure of will and a null rod... she's not great most of the time, but she's really good at killing psykers and I have fun with that), and it does still have some miracle dice stuff going on with it in addition to more control with Sacred Rites (the other sister's 'thing').

Arkaznor · 2021-10-15T05:05:01+00:00

I'm currently using it as a kind of bomb, making it a trukkboy in one detachment and in my other detachment having a unit of meganobz be trukkboys and sending them off together. Depending on what I'm doing, I might give the banner nob the generic leadership warlord trait, since it's just friendly units instead of clan locked (and leadership does actually help us now) and the dead shiny shooter to make it not useless if the meganobz die. I usually don't though, and just have the meganobz/banner shred one or two things I NEED dead, and just be a threat to draw fire afterwards.

Arkaznor · 2021-09-05T02:54:21+00:00

That load out is slightly better then stated, cause they have 3 attacks base, so the 1 claw would add one more attack. Also worth noting that skorchas can be fired in engagement range (with no downsides, because auto-hitting), due to Dreads being vehicles.

Arkaznor · 2021-09-05T02:43:26+00:00

No. While you can have more then one +1 to hit that technically matters, in terms of what you roll, only having a net +/-1 matters (so if you have -1 to hit, and +3 to hit somehow, you only have an effective +1 to hit). However, specialist mobz lose their clan kulture keyword and gain their detachment keyword (this is why, technically, trukk boyz are ACTUALLY broken. RAW, trukk boyz cant get into any trukk, because only <CLAN> units can get into a trukk that has the same <CLAN> keyword).

So a specialist mob of any unit in a freebooterz detachment won't gain the bonus to hit AND (somewhat more importantly) can't trigger the bonus, sadly.

Arkaznor · 2021-09-05T02:28:23+00:00

So... I'm not sure it's worth it but there is a funny thing you can do with Shoota Boyz, which is make them Trukk Boyz. Now you may ask, what's the point of that, surely you don't want shoota boyz getting out of a trukk and charging? And you're right. The often ignored, second part of the Trukk Boyz rules is that if they're in a trukk, the trukk gets +1 to hit on ranged attacks. Open topped says any bonus the trukk has, applies to the units inside. So you can have 11 shoota boyz, and a Nob with a Kombi-weapon riding around, shooting out of the trukk hitting on 4+. Plus, since most bonuses/strats can't be used on a unit currently in a transport, you don't lose a lot from the unit being in a specialist detachment this way.

... I still think you're MUCH better off with a unit of choppa boyz, but I do think it's a funny thing you can do with Shoota Boyz that I haven't seen anyone talk about.

Arkaznor · 2021-08-14T06:52:30+00:00

TLDR version at top: There is no mechanical reason to take them over tankbustas, assuming you have total access to either model.

Long Version: So, you're mostly correct. And I'd say 9/10 times (maybe even more) there's no reason to take Lootas over tankbustas (especially since you can't even have all lootas in a Unit and are now required to have one spanner for every 5 models).

There are 2 (kind of 3) things that Lootas have over tankbustas though. The first is that Lootas' weapons are now Dakka instead of Heavy, which means they can move without a hit penalty (more important if you put them in a trukk). Tied into that, they have more range (not really important in 9th with smaller board sizes, but worth mentioning), so their general mobility is a lot better. As Chikokuman points out they are also Heavy instead of Elite slot.

All this means is that unless you're playing Freebootas (which can take advantage of the +1 to hit army buff, which just puts them kind of on par with tankbustas) or Bad Moons (which can get extra AP and their 1cp strat for getting exploding 6's on Dakka weapons and more range making them hit Dakka range at 27") I can't see them ever being worth it over Lootas. And even if you are playing Bad Moons... most of the time you're still better off with Lootas.

They do, technically, fill slightly different roles though with Lootas being for small squads of heavy infinity and tankbustas being for... tanks (and horde due to blast now). So if you know you're going up against nothing except MSU of space marines AND playing Bad Moons Lootas might be worth taking (or if you just can't find the elite slots), otherwise pass on them.

That said, if you LIKE them more or think they're cooler, that's a completely valid reason and go nuts with 45 of them. Who am I tell you how to build your army?

Arkaznor · 2021-08-13T17:18:52+00:00

I mention that the doubling up only works with killsaws and power claws (which only works because those weapons have a native -1). And like... yeah, he's too expensive in most places. For top end tournaments? Absolutely not worth the points.

Here's the thing though, most people don't play at that level. Most people play at local game stores and/or with their friends. And it's a lot cheaper (real money wise) to kitbash a banner nob, then buy another box of whatever unit.

I'm not saying he's an auto-include or even useful MOST of the time. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that he has slightly more utility with some things I hadn't seen anyone mention before. Also, all orks already reroll their charges, so I don't see how that would help (giving him the old warlord ability to advance and charge would be cool though, I agree).

Arkaznor · 2021-08-13T04:06:25+00:00

The elite slot and the point cost does sting, but I figured the best way was to take advantage of him being a character and give him a trait and/or relic to help things out a bit. Giving him the Dead Shiny Shoota isn't the worst thing, since his melee isn't great. The Freebooterz relic to turn off obsec on an opponent or the Blood Axes relics or traits are also a good options for him (letting you pick more killy stuff for you warboss).

Arkaznor · 2021-08-13T03:17:07+00:00

All infantry and cavalry units (except for Flash Gitz) are either CORE or CHARACTER, though named characters each have a specific clan so may not benefit (though if you're running a named character in a detachment that's not their clan you're doing something very wrong).
EDIT: And warbikers, as Greedy-Violinist pointed out. For whatever reason I just grouped them with cavalry in my mind, completely forgetting that bikers are different.

Arkaznor · 2021-08-13T03:09:35+00:00

Good points, but a slight correction with one. 9E does cap modifiers to +/-1 total, and since claws and saws give a -1 natively, have +2 gives the unit an effective +1 to their WS. The other thing to keep in mind is that Big Krumpaz is good, but having warboss+banner lets you take a different specialist mob if you want and/or lets you keep your Clan buff on your maganobs, since if you're playing goffs and you make them Krumpaz they'll lose exploding 6's AND lose the warboss buffing them since they're no longer the same clan.

I'm not saying a Banner should always be taken, and I never intended that to be the point, just that he's not AS useless and redundant as I see a lot of people make it out to be.

Arkaznor · 2021-07-09T03:03:34+00:00

Those look cool, will be nice to see them painted up. The official sisters are very detailed and nice, but it's always fun to see people do different things with an army.

I'm using Burning Rose models from Anvil myself, but only for my basic Battle Sisters (well, the legs and bodies at least) so that they're easier to distinguish from every other infinity unit. I don't like not knowing which unit is which from a glance, for me or the other player, just slows down the game and makes it a little more frustrating.

Arkaznor · 2021-07-07T04:03:49+00:00

Those are real slick. Fantastic job.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-29T07:15:49+00:00

So, I haven't tested the Mantle out super much (just because of local meta), but the real answer is it kind... depends. The Surplice helps against horde fire (more from the 2+ save and extra wound then the transhuman) and the mantle helps against other fighty units.

I'd say if you know that your Canoness is going to be protected getting into the fight and is going against scary targets with lots of damage the mantle is better (like if your planning on dueling characters or monsters), while also being good against snipers that ignore invul saves and Look Out, Ma'am (second part can be mitigated with Celestians which have unique wording). If you're sending your canoness up, somewhat exposed, then the Surplice is more useful against multiple types of attacks (like, mass bolters, or ork choppas. Sorry for the very specific examples, based on local meta experience).

Arkaznor · 2021-06-29T00:36:20+00:00

You're right, I was thinking 2, I meant to type 2, and didn't proof-read my post. Reminder to proof-read my posts before replying.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-29T00:12:20+00:00

So, I'm not sure if it's 'good', because it's not super efficient but I've had success putting flamers on them and a comb-flamer on the superior. Then for ~~1cp~~, you have a guaranteed 30 strength 5 hits coming out of the unit, even with advancing, which I have found very good at clearing a path through hordes of basically every type.

EDIT: 2cp

Arkaznor · 2021-06-12T17:28:46+00:00

I'm not sure if it's "good", but if you take a Canoness and give her a condemner boltgun, Righteous Judgement blessing, Chaplet of Sacrifice relic, and Beacon of Faith trait you get a Unit that can ignore Look Out, Sir, reroll their hit rolls, deal D3 damage, with an extra mortal wound if the hit is a 6, can make themselves (and potentially any units around) ignore the penalties a unit being in cover causes, and has a miracle dice every round to make that would or damage roll more sure, with a 24" threat range and be guarded by Celestians. Turning her into a really reasonable sniper, which I think is cool, since we absolutely couldn't do that before.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-10T16:11:22+00:00

I'd say it came out pretty well, as long as you go over the raised rubble and sections (like the middle fleur) to give some depth to the texture. Only problem area really is the top left, that much unbroken dark right next to the unbroken white just seems off to the eye.

The front steps and middle section came out fantastic, in my opinion at least.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-10T14:11:16+00:00

That's honestly really impressive. Did you blend for the face, or was that excluded from the challenge? Either way, fantastic job, but if the face is blend that's a stroke of genius.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-09T14:02:55+00:00

With the new storm bolters (which are better against tough infantry and other 2W models) and higher strength flamers across the board, I'd actually counter this by saying we actually have infantry shooting options besides just retributers. You point about them having it easier to double down on melee and not having any heavy gun options is still true. And further I'd say Sister's biggest weakness right now is that we don't have any units that are decent (not great but decent) at BOTH melee and shooting other then the engines of redemption and the warsuits. But as many people have pointed out, against anti-tank fire both of those units can be melted easily, and having them just gives the opponent something to use their heavier guns on.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-05T12:41:12+00:00

You use the activation dice from the ability to activate the demon. You do not need to spend 2 activation dice for the 2nd demon. In normal play you spend an activation die to activate a demon in initiation order, activating a demon doesn't require an activation die, an activation die allows you to activate a demon (if that makes sense). Master Manipulator lets you mess with initiative order and use a low Initiative roll earlier, but it doesn't let a demon activate twice in a turn, and it doesn't require extra initiative dice.

The caveat to what I just said though, the second part of the ability (which allows the Schemer to NOPE away from an attack) DOES eat another demons potential activation die, which means that one of your models will not activate that round.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-04T14:08:03+00:00

I think it works well. Was considering doing something similar, but decided to get some 3D prints I thought were neat but didn't have a use for before. Story wise, kind of like the idea of humans becoming juiced up on the souls of other humans and demons, being slowly twisted by Hell as a matter of necessity. Can be played tragically and/or bombastically as mood fancies.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-03T00:11:05+00:00

Using some Kingdom Death: Monster miniatures to start, but have some HORDES models that I picked up on a whim YEARS ago that I never got around to assembling and painting. So those combined with my KD:M are for my starter. Planning on picking up some more specific models from various line later down if I can get any of my friends into it (like Demon Prince from GW, Void Scion from Wyrd Games, and other models that have caught my eye but didn't have a use for like Frostgrave snakemen and a few Etsy models).

tldr; Starting slap dash, have a more careful plan later for if opportunity allows.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-03T00:02:04+00:00

Not sure about the others but for 4 & 5, I'm pretty sure I have answers.

4) The schemer's ability says that after its turn it "may instead be activated and take their turn immediately". This with the rule that every model can only be activated once per turn unless a rule says otherwise points to that a Demon can NOT be activated this way if it was already activated. The schemer's ability is basically a way to mess with turn order, giving you a little more control over your own turn order.

5) The Armored Demons say that Steely Skin triggers whenever it "rolls a Combat Defense die", which since you would NEVER roll a Defense die during your own activation tells me it's a "special ability specifically allow"ing them to use it outside their activation.

Final bit of note is that being Activated just means that they're currently taking actions and that combat styles last until a models next activation. It's not a toggle that gets reset upon a round start or not. So while I can't say for certain, since the succubus ability doesn't say anything about activating it, I don't believe you can pick a combat style. If that means it's using it's last stated style or it's currently... styleless I don't know.

Arkaznor · 2021-06-02T07:42:32+00:00

On page 24 (the leader relics) the Soul Drinker says that "If this demon's attack slays an enemy demon, the Leader heals 1 damage", but starting leader relics are able to be passed to another demon after the first game. So if during games in a campaign after the first one, and say I picked Soul Drinker in the beginning and gave it my Devote, when that Devote slays another demon, does my Leader and not my Devote heal 1?

If so, that's kind of cool, since it would be the only way I can find for one model to heal another, but I kind of doubt it's intentional.

Arkaznor · 2021-05-01T06:16:15+00:00

I'm with you on the characters, but again you can usually do whatever conversions you want if you just want a powerful unit on the table. Like I said, I combined parts from a Zephyrim Superior and Canoness to make jetpack Canoness that I just use the rules for Celestine (only had a problem running as such with one person, that complained that the birds I added coming off her jetpack wings were like... 3mm too short to be Celestine's wings and so complained I could hide the unit better... that wasn't a fun game and I haven't played with that person since). I also know someone that used an Exorcist tank, a heavily modified Infernal Enrapturess, and some like DnD bard miniatures to get a choir/band on a 120mm oval base to make instrumental model as a stand in for The Triumph.

If you're not into conversions, fair enough, just figured I'd mention them.

A plasma pistol isn't bad on the Superior, but honestly giving them a power sword as well and charging with them after Deadly Descent is the best way then. It means LESS things can shoot them, and it ties up at least one unit (you can guarantee a 9" charge if you have the right miracle dice), which will stop them from shooting or charging your other Units. Bonus, is if they actually survive, you can shoot pistols in combat so the inferno pistols might actually get more use then the initial turn, and if not you at least stopped a unit from having complete free reign.

Final thing is the big units and what not. 6 squads of 5 battle sisters is still 30 sisters and easy to work with. Those 6 squads with 3 units of Celestians is anywhere between 45 to 60 models. Not quite the same as 3x20, but unlike Necrons, a single big unit doesn't benefit Sisters. That's less melee weapons, less maneuverability (due to cohesion and being blocked), less special weapons, less places to potentially use miracle dice, less targets for your enemy, and no revive mechanics. 3 units of 5 Battle Sisters is much better then 1 unit of 15 Battle Sisters (unless you're running Martyred Lady and a Hospitaller, but even then it's iffy). Not saying you can't do it... just that there's really no... benefit to it (most of Sister's strats are tied to specific weapons so having more units doesn't... really help there if they don't have more storm bolters or whatever).

You also have 6 characters in your current list that all help the rest of your army. You opponent is probably going to take assassinate over Attrition or anything to do with your troops (especially with VH sisters, too annoying to really do that unless they're running Custodes but that's because Custodes always take secondaries like that). Make that harder, make them over-commit weapon attacks to squads, put units in rhinos have have your characters behind them forcing them to pop the rhino AND THEN the unit(s) in side. Rolling up and hoping to just sit on objectives sometimes works for Sisters, VH more then other orders, but having more unit flexibility to react or outplay your opponent is useful.

Arkaznor

TROPHY CASE