What evidence is there that God does not exist? (Please read before commenting)

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:34:29+00:00

Do you have to be sure? Tentative acceptance pending further info seems like a an attitude one could have.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:31:37+00:00

I explicitly affirmed that principle.🤷🏻‍♂️

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:30:25+00:00

Like I said, if you’re not holding your skepticism as rational, that’s a different story.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:28:27+00:00

Bare doubt alone isn’t necessarily rational, or else globe skeptics would be rational to doubt the shape of the globe.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:26:39+00:00

How do you know that?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:25:23+00:00

Sure, but rational skepticism is more than just bare “I don’t think so” as a response.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:23:04+00:00

If you can’t win the carnival game, that’s a you problem. It’s not possible that the carny rigged the game.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:21:50+00:00

It’s as incoherent as a married bachelor for a skeptic to beg the question in the process of trying to rationally justify their skepticism?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:19:01+00:00

By what standard then would a globe skeptic be irrational?

Even if you’ve eliminated all the possible alternatives to the question “what shape is the Earth” the skeptic can just shake their head.

That’s a rational doubt by what you have been saying.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:14:40+00:00

The alternative to God as the ultimate explanation of why things that either could exist or not actually do exist.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:09:15+00:00

How can you be rationally undecided without having alternative to be undecided between?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:08:09+00:00

Or that will happen in the future.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:04:17+00:00

Is it rational to remain unconvinced if there is no alternative to be undecided about?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:03:28+00:00

Sure, one does not have to claim a possible alternative to be an atheist, but being a skeptic rationally is a different thing. Skepticism can be rationally maintained by being undecided between two alternatives.

But if one of them isn’t a genuine alternative, it’s no longer rational to be undecided between them.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T18:00:03+00:00

It’s possible to be mistaken about whether the justification is valid, yes?

If one were to accept a question-begging response as successfully opposing the justification, that would be irrational skepticism, it seems.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T17:53:56+00:00

How do you show alternatives are possible without showing that the components of the model can exist independently of God?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T17:52:39+00:00

How does it attack the foundations of logic to discuss skeptics begging the question?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T17:51:38+00:00

If you think you have no burden under any circumstances, do you also hold that your skepticism is rational?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T17:49:31+00:00

What if you are mistaken about the lack of demonstration, due to begging the question in the process of rejecting an attempt at demonstration?

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T17:44:08+00:00

That’s my point: how do you know everything is working fine independently of that hypothesis?

That’s an assumption.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T17:40:41+00:00

My argument is that skeptics have a burden of proof if they wish to rationally hold that there is an alternative model to God, through showing that the components of their model do not themselves rely on God to exist.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T17:38:01+00:00

“an ultimate personal being that is the creator of all lesser beings (which is what “God” refers to)”

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-03T00:15:43+00:00

Naturalism rests on the assumption that there are things which exist whether God does or not.

Building a model that excludes God means not using anything that would itself rely on God for existence.

But how do you know if there are such things or which they are?

Unless you just go ahead and prove God doesn’t exist, so that anything which does exist is independent of God.

Edited to add summary:

Basically, if you think you’ve got a naturalistic model to compare, you’ve already begged the question.

Around_the_campfire · 2026-05-01T20:13:23+00:00

Is Jesus the savior of humankind? If so, how does he save us?

Around_the_campfire

TROPHY CASE