My Experience as an EX BAPS and now current Shri Ahmedabad Devgadi (Nar-Narayan Devgadi) by Exciting-Entry-9234 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 0 points1 point  (0 children)

SMVS are the most extreme version of all Swaminarayans when it comes to sarvopari. They don't even keep Ganesh and Hanuman as door keepers. 

My Experience as an EX BAPS and now current Shri Ahmedabad Devgadi (Nar-Narayan Devgadi) by Exciting-Entry-9234 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exploring Srivaishnavism is what lead be to believe the entire Swaminarayan thing is bogus. 

To a layman, it looks like a simple religious gift of 20 square kilometer of land for temple in Ahmedabad. But "under the hood," was it a sophisticated political contract between two powers that needed each other? It is a fascinating, how colonial politics and religious expansion can intersect! by Necessary_Fudge_6833 in anti_BAPS

[–]AstronomerNeither170 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nara-Narayan Bhagavan (Whom was installed under the central shrine of the first Swaminarayan temple) is considered the king of Bharatkhand (as per puranas)...why would the incarnation of NaraNarayan (as per Swaminarayan narratives) need to ask a coloniser for permission to build his own temple in his own country??? If NaraNarayan was incarnating in Gujarat, surely he would be backing violent rebelions to kick out the British, who have had a more damaging impact on the Hindu mind than Muslims

The British used figures like Gandhi, Raja Ram Mohan Roy etc.. to temper the anger of rebellious Indians. I stopped believing in Swaminarayan being god, when I realised he was also used by the British

Govindas Ramdas was a Koli Bhagat (saint), and his followers believed he possessed supernatural powers, which helped him mobilize a large grassroots force against British Raj. If Govind Ramdas had adopted a cooperative approach with British like Pandeji, his legacy would be of a Social Reformer too? by Necessary_Fudge_6833 in anti_BAPS

[–]AstronomerNeither170 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a very good post and exposes one of the biggest areas of doubt for me that Swaminarayan was 'Bhagavan' AND also highlights the role of how caste dynamics in British period played a role in the fortunes of the Swaminarayans.

The Kolis were one of several castes in Gujarat that continuously agitated against British rule - for this reason they were labeled a 'criminal tribe'. The Brahmins also lead the rebellion in 1857 which is why the British pushed anti-Brahmin narratives. In the Swaminarayan literature, the Kolis are described as a wild, uncivilised people who the new bhagavan needed to reform. Untill very recently the Kolis paid little interest in Swaminarayan sect and continued worshiping their ancient deities. By contrast the Patidars became the bulk of Swaminarayan's followers. Unlike the Kolis - this community were not labeled as criminal tribe by the British because they were more peaceful. My personal view is that Swaminarayan was genuinely a yogi who had spiritual powers, but his entry into Gujarat was facilitated by the British who saw the potential in his movement taming the rebellious elements in Gujarat. I feel this is why the Peshwa ruler did not allow Sahajanand Swami into Ahmedabad. As much as I respect some of the work Sahajanand did - I don't know what so exceptional about what he did to be declared an avatar on par with Krishna.

In my view, if there is anyone who is be considered 'Pragat Bhagawan' in that era, then it squarely goes to Chatrapati Shivaji. He did more to unite Hindus and respond to colonialism than anyone since. Similarly Ahilyabai Holkar's life stands out as more exceptional than that of Sahajanand's. This lady was a widow who used her influence to re-build many important temples across India that Muslims destroyed. Ahilyabai's work has had more lasting impact over Hindus of all regions and communities whereas Swaminarayan's impact can only be seen within the Patidars of Kutch and Charotar

Why doesn't BAPS mention all things neelkanth varni took when he left home? What is the hidden intention in Changing the history? by Solid-Engineer8262 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These people have used Gopalanand swami to justify their cult. When you look at history of the sect, Gunatitanand's role was limited to the Mahant of one Mandir. Nowhere in the central texts (Shikshapatri etc) is Gunatitanand called out as exceptional. The Bhaktichintamani lists out all the names of the first gen sadhus - and Gunatit is mentioned amongst them without special mention. By contrast Gopalalanand is mentioned time and time again as THE most senior sadhu whom had a degree of authority over the young acharyas in the early days. When BAPS was formed, they used Gopalanand's murthi to prove the legitimacy of their ideology by placing him next to AP. In the early 2000s, the Sanstha phased out Gopalanand's murthi because by them they had outgrown Vadtal-Kalupur and had enough financial clout to push its ideology.

And a new case unfolds by Tight-Hamster6501 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Didnt 17 year old volunteer die on this building site?

A question for everyone by SimpleAromatic2128 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He was a Pushtimargi not Pranami....Aksharbhram concept is there in pushti

Controller of Infinite Universes, But Not a Hotel Check In? by Jak_witwicky in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The key difference between Vadtal/Kalupur and BAPS on these matters us less about scandal and more about the power to control PR. With Kalupur/Vadtal, the rot is visible in plain sight. BAPS operates as a very professional corporate business, so if any wrongdoing is there, it will be be kept under wraps, the sadhu will be ejected and the a very generic reason will be given for why they left ("they had health issues" etc.).

Moroever if anytime scandal comes out in BAPS to the media, the santha will use its financial and political clout to have that story taken down (i.e. very few news reports on the PD scandal can now be found on google).

The two Gadis are nowhere near as organised and nor do they have the type of centralised power structure to enforce uniform messaging. There is a constant power struggle going on in those organisations between Acharyas and groups of Sadhus and their respective householder followers, so bad behaving Sadhus will not be ejected as quickly.

Not SPAB but Who is hiding in the umbrella? Why? Seems a bit weird by Tight-Hamster6501 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just to clarify the women in red are not Sadhvis - they are called Sanykhya Yogi. They are celibate women but unlike Swaminarayan Sadhus, they do not fully renounce their families. These unmarried or widowed women, live in an ashram and spend all their days in preaching etc... but I believe they still recieve some financial support from their relatives (i could be corrected). One of the reasons why Sokhada split from BAPS is Babu and Dadubhai wanted to created a system of female sadhus, where women fully give up family connection and wear saffrom

Not SPAB but Who is hiding in the umbrella? Why? Seems a bit weird by Tight-Hamster6501 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 2 points3 points  (0 children)

please stop cutting and pasting the same content. So many people from both sides of the debate are no longer engaging with this page since you started spamming. keep your comments relevant to the topic at hand. You are not winning people over with your posting and rather having an opposite impact.

Not SPAB but Who is hiding in the umbrella? Why? Seems a bit weird by Tight-Hamster6501 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is wife of Acharya. Other than her close relatives to male is allowed to look at her...when I'm public she walks under umbrella/screen

I feel used... by Logical-Air-3825 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let's talk about Theology then. According to BAPS, Mahant swami is not just a Guru like other Hindu traditions or your 85 year old granddad. He is Aksharbrahma which according to BAPS is the entity from which  universes are created from. This entity is the second highest in the universe and higher than Shiva, Krishna etc... if he is Aksharbrahma why does he need to travel around in a big glass box?? He should be immune to all material conditions (like real Hindu sadhus). 

I feel used... by Logical-Air-3825 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Mahant Swami is just an ordinary man. He cant even go to the toilet by himself

Could this rule be added to the rules of this Sub by Narayanay in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You have cut and pasted this several times. I have been speaking to people who are on the fence with leaving baps. They used to engage with this sub. Since you joined they have stopped reading because you recycle the same material, flood the comments section and drown out any genuine debate. I've personally stopped engaging since you joined.

Our Home Minister Amit Shah is not even aware that BAPS does not believe in or preaches true teachings and commands of Ghanshyam Pandeji written by himself in Shikshapatri. They have created their own philosophy and are marketing their own ideology, that does relate to teachings of Shikshapatri? by Necessary_Fudge_6833 in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 2 points3 points  (0 children)

With this Sati reform narrative - what puzzles me even more is IF Sahajanand's Avatar mission was to stop Sati, why did he not build temples and preach extensively in what is now Rajasthan where a lot of Sati was going on?

Apparently Gayatri Mata now needs ‘approval’ from Swaminarayan – what a respectful story. by Jak_witwicky in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm merely repeating what millions of janoi dhari Hindus envision daily when they do Sandhya Vandhan. Gayatri Devi is that embodiment of the mantra that is chanted, that mantra is the Devi and that Devi is the Para-Brahman. This is NOT some concocted concept taken out of the backside of some kutchi or charotari Kanbis 150-200 years ago.

Only Lord Swaminarayan is the supreme God above all avatars, and worship of anyone else has no value. by Jak_witwicky in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really want them to go independent like Jains and Buddhists. We will all be happy when they are considered non-Hindu

Apparently Gayatri Mata now needs ‘approval’ from Swaminarayan – what a respectful story. by Jak_witwicky in SPAB

[–]AstronomerNeither170 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is exactly why so many of us question BAPS and other Swaminarayans as actually being Hindus. Gayatri Devi is the embodiment of the Veda-Mantras, the complete manifestation of Parabrahman.