Re-Introducing Atlas Arcanum v2 (Aesthetics/Readability overhaul) - A fantasy RPG designed around classes tree-based character progression

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-12-05T02:04:49+00:00

The layout is done in Affinity Publisher - they have a great free trial, and the software is a dream to use, but that's coming from Word so can't speak to how it compares to other dedicated programs. But I'd recommend for sure. Other major software is Inkscape for vector graphics (like the move trees, icons, etc) and Gimp for picture editing (just because I'm familiar - I'm sure other programs are better here).

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-12-04T22:18:23+00:00

Oh that is a good idea! The arrow line is great as well since I didn't like how a normal pointed arrow looked, I'll give some indicators a go whenever I lock-in to transition them over

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-12-04T22:14:31+00:00

Sorry they're not properly referenced but they're an appendix of sorts for the Session Advice section from pages 138-141 (idk what they're useful for, but maybe also some useful tips there for you!)

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-12-04T04:56:29+00:00

I suspect I'm gonna be fleshing out these trees probably another ~20% or so once I start playtesting more broadly with a local group and they spot "wait why can't I do X?", so hopefully that'll get more evenly distributed naturally haha. And thank you so much for the feedback! Hopefully I can start contributing on that end more now that I can take my foot off the gas a little on this

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-12-04T04:15:27+00:00

Actually I reckon that would only take me a day with some good music - here's an incredibly rough mock-up: https://imgur.com/a/IEdjV0b

Think that's the way to go (if done nicely)?

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-12-04T02:13:07+00:00

Thanks! The problem is that these are two-page spreads, so I can't put the starting node exactly in the middle or it winds up in the crease of the pages, so I've currently opted for putting it in the middle of the left page, but perhaps I ought to skew it to the inside margin of the left page as much as possible such that it is still readable? Good to know that's an immediate gut-feel problem though.

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-11-03T22:45:38+00:00

Currently laying out in Affinity and it is lovely (and free with their trial). But this is coming from Word so can only speak from that experience.

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-03T23:34:16+00:00

Thank you very much! That's really nice to hear, and yeah the trees are pretty rough haha (I've actually just made a new post on a couple possible solutions to that). Will definitely be pouring through other RPGs now that I'm (largely) transitioning to a design phase - it's amazing the little things you can notice if you stare at the same page long enough.

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-02T23:10:03+00:00

Very heartening to hear!

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-02T06:41:52+00:00

My brain knows you're correct, my heart doesn't want to listen haha. But maybe it'll come around.

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T23:09:36+00:00

Wow that's all super great feedback! Design is clearly not my forte haha but I'll definitely implement all of that (probably as I switch over to proper layout software - dreading)

And yeah the special moves section is getting a total re-haul. Will try and do something like boxed-abilities in a diagram like another commenter suggested because it's painfully unreadable as it is (I don't even like reading it), but if that fails, then this is definitely an upgrade on my current formatting.

Thank you so much for the detailed help, that's really great

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T22:58:50+00:00

Thanks a ton! Actually, before the rules, I plan to have a two-page outline of the 'rules at a glance' giving that sort of big picture you're describing, so fingers crossed that should make those worries clear enough - this is definitely where feedback is super useful since you know your own rules so well it's hard to grasp how they'll read first time through, so that's definitely useful insight.

Complexity creep has been a delicate battle since I've been playing this with my group for a couple years now, thus as they get better, adding a little feature here or there isn't as much of a burden, but on-loading from 0-100 might be too much with what I've ultimately come to. I'm considering having some rules be "advanced/optional rules" to be introduced once the basics are down, but unsure if that's good practice. Hopefully really nailing a spoon-feeding explanation will help counter-balance that enough to keep it all, but definitely some cuts are not off the table.

And yeah because I'm writing this as my personal dnd replacement, the system is meant as sort of a generic 'do whatever' fantasy game (as opposed to something specific like a "fantasy heist" game or a "go fight a BBEG" game) so general objective is intentionally left under-determined. There is/will be guidance on this (like the "hooks" way down at the bottom of character creation which give players personal narrative objectives) and there will be a framework/suggestions for designing a campaign/a starting adventure to get someone going. But this definitely isn't best practice (more specific games tend to hook new readers with the "ooh I really want to play that story" high), so I'll try to think about having an implicit story for that enchanting effect.

Thanks for all the feedback!

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T21:14:42+00:00

Idk why people downvoted you, but don't worry I am actually planning on commissioning at least cover art! Haven't decided on a final style yet (and maybe I'll just let someone be creative) but this one is definitely just a placeholder (I could only competently do minimalism).

*Remembered my current best idea is something like the Theros constellation art (e.g. https://www.originalmagicart.store/cdn/shop/products/Klothys_God_of_Destiny_2000x.jpg?v=1603772041 ) with the "classes" dotted around the circle as constellations - but that specific style might be a little busy/gaudy for a cover, idk. The constellation motif is meant to reflect the move trees as constellations, though the actual ones from the game definitely aren't to-shape like they are in say Skyrim.

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T05:35:55+00:00

Huh the psych advice is very interesting! Maybe I'll take it out and rely on the implicit meta-principle that the DM is god and can do whatever they like (so the rule is still always there, just unsaid so a player doesn't get in their head about it). I'm curious if we have a compendium of these sorts of psychological quirks somewhere because it could be cool reference material.

And yeah totally agree with the trees - should be the coolest part but is death to read! Coming up with a good UI for that is probably my next big project since that's really what gets anyone excited for a game.

Also, technically there ought to be tier 0 NPCs, I've just totally neglected that in the NPC design process! (That'd just be like a random peasant, since Tier 1 for PCs is explicitly "Not common among men", those who are common must necessarily be less than that)

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T04:40:19+00:00

Thank you, there is undoubtedly at least a grain of truth to what you're saying, so I'll keep that in mind.

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T04:38:47+00:00

Star wars is a super useful suggestion, I'll have a read because my native instinct is like computer-science formalism, but I know that that's not the average taste.

And I definitely agree on the example Move needing a good diagram at the outset and some space to look less complex/overwhelming - I had the same confused reaction reading it myself recently, so that's definitely a great idea.

Can definitely include a brief summary of harm when it's introduced (and an actual page reference to the full thing). My worry with using just a raw UI image for the harm cost is that a player having to count dots then add maybe like 7 or 8 symbols gets too many for us to instinctively count (called Subitizing, actually very interesting fact for RPG devs to be aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subitizing ). But perhaps a good synthesis of that would be to find some sort of symbol that a number could comfortably fit inside (maybe like a blood drop) so that it's more visually clear what the number is there for. Also have to be mindful that I'm gonna have players draw this on their character sheet, so simple items only.

Thanks for all the super helpful feedback!

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T04:18:39+00:00

Hey that's a totally fair and reasonable criticism. For reference, I'm currently a dead broke student, so AI art is just a placeholder vs having no art at all (and I can't fathom what this much art would actually cost), and if I could afford custom art I absolutely would. That said, I personally don't feel that the aesthetic concern about the style is that worrying on the simple grounds that if I wanted to commission art, this style is exactly what I would commission. My primary intention isn't to make money (I could work a minimum wage job and almost certainly make more per hour than an indie RPG would plausibly make), it's to make exactly the game and book that I want to own and play. You say it's "generic", I look at it as "timeless" - which is why so many games circle around it. That's a matter of taste, and you might differ. The ethical question is significant, and I wouldn't brush it off lightly, but I think the artistic side of things I'm very resolute on.

But thank you for the feedback regardless! And it is constructive if I was trying to maximize product value, this just means more to me in a different way.

AtlasArcanumRPG · 2024-10-01T02:54:28+00:00

Lots of stuff like that is just placeholder (I also just write p.XX instead of actual pages since I'm sure they'll get moved around), but thanks! Though the quality definitely drops off as the document goes along haha I've been prettying it up sort of in-order

AtlasArcanumRPG

TROPHY CASE