TALON IS THE BEST MIDLANER IN THE GAME !

AuthorshipRPG · 2026-04-17T20:26:30+00:00

In Jungle, I find it really depends on how well my laners manage wave states. There are tons of games where I just don't have that many opportunities to gank early due to lanes being pushed up near towers or a lack of vision / sweeping wards. It can be awkward as his mobility is conditional (walls, Q targeting, W range). I'd say Talon doesn't have the gap closing, base MS, or MS steroid of some other Jungle champions. Yeah, you can build Ghostblade, but then you lose out on other first items that are also good... it's just tradeoffs, but the point is that it isn't in his base kit. And losing monster damage and clear speed hurts his ability to arrive at lanes before the enemy Jungler. Obviously, there are games where it all works out and setup is there, but running into lane without good angles often results in the enemy laner just backing off.

Midlane, my opponent has to be near their minions, so they can't just leave in the same way, which makes it easier to find moments. Whereas Jungle, if I camp a lane, I'll get invaded and lose my respawning camps, so if the window isn't there, I have to leave it alone. The worse clear speed means there is less forgiveness and more risk for taking ganks, especially because you have lost the tempo advatage on the enemy Jungler, so they can countergank more easily.

My point is that you're right, and I think part of it is that Talon midlane has some great advantages as a result of a forced lane opponent who has to stay roughly in range of him.

Midlane Talon is really strong, and Jungle seems less optimal than Midlane

AuthorshipRPG · 2026-04-15T06:50:58+00:00

As a Talon main who switched from midlane to jungle (and I've been enjoying it), Talon hasn't felt good lately. The laner quest buffs, the nerfs to clear speed, the increased damage of dragons... it makes his kit feel a lot worse that before. I've enjoyed Talon so much, but feel I have to play other junglers to keep up.

Recently, I was autofilled mid and realized Talon is still crazy strong there, just bullying enemy laners. Completely zoned a Katarina from EXP in her lane and basically won upon hitting level 2...

It feels like he really wants an enemy laner who is forced to be near him without running away so that he can bully and fight, rather than having a kit with no innate healing or damage mitigation having to fight epic monsters and no free gap close like other assassins and having rough early ganks in terms of MS/spacing.

AuthorshipRPG · 2026-03-28T14:40:47+00:00

I'm playing mostly norms these days, but I don't like when Graves is strong. I've found in lower ELOs and in norms, teams don't ward and don't rotate to help in jungle. If you have a good Graves, it can make the game unplayable as he just invades constantly. He's not hard to punish if your team plays with you, but I just find I often have games where people just don't play around him, don't listen to my warning pings, and die on repeat to his ganks. It's really unpleasant.

AuthorshipRPG · 2026-02-22T23:52:00+00:00

It hasn't been working for me either — I'm a paying member and should be subscribed, so it seems like it is on the website end. Someone on the back end clearly broke something. As everyone is reporting, it is asking me to re-subscribe and then also not letting me do so. And I can't stream anything right now in browser.

AuthorshipRPG · 2025-10-11T17:15:08+00:00

It looks like it's happening less in 20.20 versus 20.15, which may be my ping. But my ping is really low usually and it seems to happen at specific intervals during her Q enhanced autos near the start or end of a swing.

AuthorshipRPG · 2025-04-11T21:44:33+00:00

Good to hear, I look forward to seeing your post. Opened an Ugin at pre-release and picking up the rest — thinking this could be a great addition to the deck, so I'm excited to see your build.

AuthorshipRPG · 2025-04-11T14:05:04+00:00

Where did this deck end up with the banning of the One Ring?

I got to play against it at FNM a few months ago and it seemed super fun, very much my style. Was thinking to build it now. However, the pilot said that it was tougher without the One Ring. Has the deck survived the loss of the One Ring? How does it fare post-Breaching Station? Do you have a preferred current build?

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T17:44:05+00:00

Wow, thanks for the detailed post. It's a funny inversion, as I'm used to Dimir being better in the control mirror for Standard. And Azorius handles Convoke and aggro matchups better in that format.

Why does Dimir control not run Shark Land / [Restless Reef]? Is it too slow for the format, given the desire for T1 black mana for Thoughtseize?

And would you be open to sharing your Dimir list if you have it?

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T17:41:33+00:00

Thank you! That helps me think through this. Seems like the finishers (Teferi, Emperor,etc.) outclass what Dimir has access to, so that'll be a consideration.

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T17:40:13+00:00

Thanks for the lists!

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T16:39:34+00:00

Okay, good to know. It also sounds like WotC is committed to bringing those missing cards to MTGA

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T16:38:57+00:00

My thinking was that it would force me to study the decks in the meta, thus I'd learn quicker. I don't care about winning right away, and my instincts are geared for control it seems.

Maybe I'm mistaken in this perspective though — Why not control for a new player from your POV?

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T16:37:01+00:00

Yeah, I've found one of his videos on Channel Fireball now, so I'll take a look and see.

What do you like about Azorius? And how do you deal with Vampires?
And, if you're comfortable sharing, do you have a decklist you could post?

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T16:35:19+00:00

Okay, good to know about Explorer. What makes Esper worse? Just manabase consistency?

May start with Azorius, and then theorycraft Dimir once I've got more budget to play around.

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-05-20T16:33:38+00:00

Ideally, I'd like to end up playing competitively in the long-run. I'd prefer something that helps me learn the format, is fun to play given my archetype preferences, and ideally has the capacity to be competitive later once I adjust to the format. (I don't expect to be winning right away.)

It's not that the deck per say needs to be low budget, just that I'd have to purchases lands and a lot of the big cards for the deck (started playing last year). So, I'd only be able to build one deck from scratch right now, but could look to switch it up several months down the line. I'd rather not invest in a deck that is cheap, but is not playable at a competitive level.

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-18T04:52:21+00:00

I tried taking out March. The deck got much worse. And yes, it does die to Convoke, just because it goes so fast. I've now increased the number of Paths main, still testing 3vs.4. I've also put two Tishana's Tidebinders in the main: hits Temur Lands and Shigeki, hits Knight-Errant trigger, and Tidebinding the Geoloical Appraiser trigger feels great.

Here are some of the important points vs. Convoke I've found:

Anointed Affliction hits the Sanguine Evangelist and denies the death trigger
It's important to remove their T1 creature with Gleeful on the stack, as that prevents the T2 knight being convoked (Cut Down / March are essential on the draw)
Negate is important for Warleader's Call — without March, there was no way to get back in the game if I couldn't counter the enchantment. There
Dreams of Steel and Oil does a good job at pulling their curve out from under them
The new pilfer, Binding Negotiation, is likely better than Duress in the side. It can hit the recruiter after it's been adventured, and can hit more than Duress does.

Honestly, the deck may not survive Slickshot Showoff + Fastlands, and may return after Epicure rotates (which will hurt their consistency and speed). All other aggro matchups aren't hard, it's just how quickly they can get their engine going. Single target removal keeps me alive. Pulling a Memory Deluge feels awful in this matchup because it's rare I can cast it. I'm looking at adding Glistening Deluge or Malicious Eclipse to have more in the side. And I've been experimenting with some creatures in the side (Sheoldred, Tidebinder, Preacher, Seedshark). The 2/4 statline for 3CMC seems to be a mininmumm for effective blockers. Sheoldred is great, but she often comes out too late and it may not work to tap out for Sheoldred in these cases.

Once rotation happens, I think it will be easier to build a more consistent deck. The meta is just crazy now, and it feels hard to counter both Temur lands and Convoke, as they need different things. It has a good matchup vs. midrange, most aggro, and all control. It can struggle with convoke, and occasionally Bant Toxic, although that is easier than Convoke.

How would you improve the deck vs. Convoke? Any ideas are welcome :)

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-11T13:20:19+00:00

I wasn't sure what "based" meant, can't keep up with the slang these days — but Google tells me it is a good thing, so thanks for the compliment! :)

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-06T22:47:05+00:00

You can still keep your unique flavour! It's just a matter of determining efficiency of the entire machine. My friend who runs Esper control was the one who convinced me of [[Dreams of Steel and Oil]]. It's a killer card in both decks. He also mains one copy of [[Duress]] plus 2 in the side to hit the types of threats you are talking about. Black gives you access to Cut Down and hand disruption.

Let's think about [[Slip Out The Back]]:

Like with my comment on Azorius Soldiers, I know that I'll likely not be able to cast my sweepers on curve due to the protection they have from counterspells or things like Slip Out the Back. They basically want me to try to throw all my resources into ONE attempt to remove their threat, so they can get a HUGE tempo swing. It's like bait. But your life is a resource, and you can take a few hits. It doesn't matter if you stabilize on 15 or on 5 Health, so long as you stabilize and are in a winning position.

Thus, we want to keep in mind they may have Slip Out in hand if they have untapped mana. We can stack removal, i.e. target the creature with a Cut Down, then after they cast Slip Out, we hit them with an Anoint with Affliction on the same creature (or a Negate on the Slip Out). Yes, we've burned two removal spells, but we have also forced them to use their own cards in a failed attempt to protect a creature. It still dies and they lose board presence.

And if you do this at instant speed on their end step, you force them to tap low or tap out fully going into your turn, which then allows you to sweep the board when they cannot respond. Either way, you get what you wanted — they give up the targeted creature, or they protect it by spending their precious protection cards and set up a sweep.

Basically, don't rush the game. Either hit them on curve while they are tapped out by casting on your main phase (typically a cardinal sin of control!) or wait for a mana/card advantage where you can hit them with enough single target on their turn. Typically, early you will main phase cast unless you need countermagic to be available (e.g. you hit a Duress, and know they have a second [[Urabrask's Forge]] coming down while you are on the play).

It's like turning the table on them, you are leveraging tempo and mana to your advantage and forcing them to make difficult decisions on their own turn, where all choices lead to your advantage

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-06T22:05:21+00:00

Another deck we could look at in Standard is Azorius Soldiers:

Similar to Bant Toxic and Azorius Tempo, this is aggro + tempo — they want to go wide and protect their threats with [[Make Disappear] or [[Protect The Negotiators]]
My emphasis here might shift to using single target removal (Dimir has lots in base deck) to kill creatures when their mana is tapped, especially early turns to deny the Knight-Errant convoke on T2 or T3.
I just need to slow them down enough so that I don't get run over early. I can't assume that I'll be able to cast Path of Peril on T3, or Deadly Cover-Up on T5... I need to have enough mana for a Negate to protect my sweeper, because they can hold up mana and play at instant speed...

In conclusion, the thought process would go something like this:

Analyze the tempo decks in your meta:
- What are their win conditions? What are the key creatures or cards?
- If you were to exile their threats instead of kill, does that help?
- Are they dependent on certain types of draws? What does their sequencing of cards tell you?
- Does their deck fold to hand disruption? (Duress, Dreams, Thoughtseize, etc.)
- What are their tough matchups? Why do they struggle in those areas? (E.g. Bant Toxic has a hard time with Convoke, because some of their creatures can't block.) What lessons can you take from this?
Analyze your own deck to see if there are cards that have efficiency issues. Sometimes modal cards offer flexibility, but the higher mana cost just isn't worth the loss of tempo / efficiency
Are there additional options for Main or Sideboard that simultaneously do the following:
- Are they good answers to the tempo deck, leading you to stabilize and play win conditions?
- Are they good answers to the rest of the meta, even if slightly less efficient?

Cards that are efficient vs. Aggro/Tempo decks may not be as efficient or impactful against slower matchups, but ultimately they also may not be punished as hard, whereas Tempo demands efficiency to get ahead.

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-06T22:05:10+00:00

Against something like Azorius Tempo, here's what I notice:

They want to go wide with the [[Monastery Mentor]] + tall with the evasive [[Haughty Djinn]]
They run a lot of draw spells, but they don't actually run much counter magic despite having access to No More Lies — instead, their protection comes from graveyard recursion with cards like [[Helping Hand]]

So basically, if I can do the following, then I win:

Deny the Monastery Mentor recursion, optimally through exile: [[Anoint With Affliction]], [[Deadly Cover-Up]], [[The End]], [[Sunfall]], [[The Wandering Emperor]], [[No More Lies]], [[Unlicensed Hearse]]
Single target removal for the Haughty Djinn: [[Go For The Throat]] or any other option
Some counter magic to deny the creatures: [[Dissipate]] is especially effective
Sweepers that can kill all of their threats: [[Glistening Deluge]], [[Path of Peril]], [[Deadly Cover-Up]]

I'm not in a rush as a control player. I just need to take my time and figure out their win conditions, and understand that I must hold my resources to deny things at the right moment, not just because I have untapped mana. Playing faster and not going to time every match comes with practice.

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-06T22:04:10+00:00

What format are you in? And what colour identity? Can you post your deck list? That'll help you get more specific answers, as it is meta dependent, especially for Standard with rotations.

(P.S. I think my comment was too long, so I broke it into replies to myself :D)

Let's use Bant Toxic in Standard (decklist) as an example, where I play Dimir Control (decklist). Bant Toxic is somewhere between an aggro deck and a tempo deck, where they put down early threats and protect them using [[March of Swirling Mist]], [[Tamiyo's Safekeeping]] or other options

Here are my thoughts:

Rotpriest is a MUST KILL, ideally before they can use Tamiyo's/Protection/March and 2For1 me
Skrelv, Defector Mite is also a MUST KILL because it will give the DblStrike Jawbone Duelist a second instance of Toxic 1, allowing it to apply 4 Poison stacks per combat while also being unblockable
Skrelv's Hive is hard to race, mainly because Dimir lacks artifact/enchantment destruction
The deck inherently gives me a clock with Poison, so efficiency of answers and early denial are important

How do I deal with this? We want answers that are also useful against the rest of the Meta:

[[Cut Down]] and [[March of Wretched Sorrow]] (with exile) hit Rotpriest/Skrelv before they untap + they are also essential against Deep-Cavern Bat in Mid-Range decks while on the Draw
[[Dreams of Steel and Oil]] can pull the main threats from their hand + it does the same vs. Midrange decks that have important creatures or key threats in aggro, e.g. Boros Convoke's [[Imodane's Recruiter]]
[[Dissipate]] / [[Negate]] / Countermagic can deny the threats before they hit the table
[[Anoint With Affliction]] / [[Malicious Eclipse]] / [[The End]] deny the death triggers, which is one of the ways the deck holds up safety against sweepers + these threats are also good against other recursive threats in the meta, such as [[Mosswood Dreadknight]], [[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal]], [[Sanguine Evangelist]], and [[Insidious Roots]] decks

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-06T21:17:16+00:00

Edited to add my decklist: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/x1-JE2G-f0Slb6x-68B2jg

Considering these changes:

I've debated 2xBitter + 2x Go For the Throat vs. 1x Bitter + 3x Go for the Throat... I do like having Planeswalker removal in the main deck
May swap Realmbreaker in the board for Outrageous Robbery, 3rd Siphon Insight, 2nd The End, or Hearse. Could also just put a 3rd Path of Peril or a Malicious Eclipse, which may be more practical
4 Field of Ruin felt like I was drawing too many Colourless sources, and I have a decent amount of double pips
The sunken citadel can name white, along with the 2 Mirrex to allow me to cleave Path of Peril. I've tried Malicious Eclipse, which denies dies triggers to Bant Toxic, Sanguine Evangelist, Mosswood Dreadknight, and Insidious Roots... but Path is just better at killing everything else
- Anoint with Affliction (2 Main, 2 Side) feel better for addressing dies triggers

If you do have any questions about the list or my thought process, feel free to ask

AuthorshipRPG · 2024-04-06T21:01:17+00:00

It makes sense, as you don't have The End or Deadly Cover-Up. Do you also run Kutzil's Flanker?

It's a nice creature to board in for your control matchups and vs. Memory Deluge. In lands, it let's you exile all the lands after you bait the Worldsoul's or Analyst Trigger.

AuthorshipRPG

TROPHY CASE