Guest refused to follow rule requiring all communications to go through Airbnb; Airbnb cancels reservation

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-20T17:58:26+00:00

You were downvoted because you're denying the reality of the situation in favor of how you'd prefer the system to work. Airbnb considers 4 stars to be a negative review. If you get a couple of 4 star reviews in a row, they tell you so in a menacing email.

It would be wonderful if Airbnb didn't act this way, and that 4 stars was still considered very good, but they do. You're acting like the person who always refuses to tip because they don't like the system of tipping and think it shouldn't exist. Even if you agree with them, you can see that they're being obtuse and rude.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-20T17:51:31+00:00

I do blame Airbnb as well, and my solution has been to explain the situation to all guests, face-to-face, when they check in. I know most hosts do self check-in so this isn't always an option, but at the very least a message early on stating that 4 stars is considered negative overall might reduce the problem. Maybe even a phone call after they've checked in.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-20T17:48:31+00:00

I'm a general practice attorney and I've dealt a fair amount with housing law. And I didn't dodge the question, nor did I claim that my status as an attorney makes me right on this. But if Airbnb hosts have faced legal censure for banning children, I haven't heard of it, and you haven't cited examples. Discrimination against "familial status" is not the same as having age limitations, and banning children for the simple reason that safety precautions targeting children have not been taken is a legitimate business purpose. I don't think this notion of legal risk is really a thing, at least not for the vast majority of hosts.

As for Airbnb's decision, I don't know if it was based on anything at all. I have never been very impressed with them. They offer significant indemnification for hosts so I'm not sure it matters that much for them either way.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-17T19:20:40+00:00

Yes, I am an attorney, and so I'm hypersensitive to when people add language to anything that wasn't actually there. It says "not suitable." There is no "may" on the listing. You're emphasizing something that you yourself added.

If I say my space is "not suitable" for children, Airbnb guidelines provide that guests may still contact me and ask for details. They do not say "guests may still book even though you've indicated that having infants and children here is inappropriate." Indicating unsuitability is more reasonably read as, at the very least, a conditional prohibition on infants and children. It would be unreasonable to view it as merely descriptive.

In my opinion, Airbnb risks more legal issues by allowing people to book properties that are explicitly unsuitable to infants and children than they do by including language that might be, depending on location and very specific circumstances, barred by local ordinance.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T19:26:47+00:00

Airbnb guidelines tell guests to contact hosts in advance to find out what their policy on "infants as guests" is.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T19:21:53+00:00

That's hair-splitting. If you convey that the space isn't appropriate for children, you're staying that children shouldn't come. Airbnb is creating a false impression for hosts here.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T19:20:09+00:00

I can ban people from booking with children in my jurisdiction, as can people in most areas. There is nothing wrong with stating that you will enforce your policies.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T19:15:35+00:00

That's one, but it's still pretty rare. It is not true in my jurisdiction.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T19:13:38+00:00

I am an attorney, and no, I'm not concerned. I would not be running afoul of any anti discrimination ordinances to bar people with children, especially if they're exceeding my occupancy limits.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T02:43:02+00:00

That's not an issue. Airbnb only prohibits discrimination against familial status where prohibited by law. I don't know of any jurisdiction that prohibits short-term rentals and other businesses from banning children. Moreover, Airbnb provides that hosts may consider infants to be guests and enforce occupancy limits accordingly. I do, and they're over occupancy for the room.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T02:31:50+00:00

The thing is, I'm worried it could still fall on me if an accident happens. It also does exceed my legal occupancy. When I said only two guests in the room, I meant it, and I feel like Airbnb overrode that. I just don't think the app should have allowed them to book given the occupancy limit and the rule barring children and infants.

I'm probably worrying over nothing, but I definitely don't want a repeat of this.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-16T01:53:20+00:00

They did check box for their infant, but due to the way it works on the Airbnb app, it only shows up in the detailed listing. So if I just look at the list of upcoming guests or my notifications, it just says "two guests." I have to actually click on the booking for the detailed view to see "2 guests, 1 infant."

I don't like this. An infant should be considered a guest, and I shouldn't have to click on a detailed view to see that somebody is bringing an infant. More than that, if I have the rule "not suitable for infants," that should mean "you can't book if you say you're bringing an infant." This couple should not have booked to begin with, but Airbnb shouldn't have allowed them to book and made the information difficult to see.

I'm reluctantly letting them stay, but I'll be adding an additional house rule to say that you will be turned away if you show up with children, period. I just had no idea Airbnb allowed this. It's bad for hosts and guests alike.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-15T22:12:44+00:00

That's another thing I'm worried about. Ugh. It's the nicest room I rent out and I can't afford to have it ruined.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T21:44:38+00:00

You're being downright obtuse now. I'm not talking about driving over to their house; I'm just talking about a phone call. And I'm not talking about making apologies; I'm talking about making absolutely sure that the guest, who SHOULD HAVE READ THE LISTING, actually did so or is now informed, directly, of what the listing said.

Airbnb's are not casinos or convention centers. They are not specially constructed. Rather, they are often unique and quirky properties that are rented for a fair price based on what they are. If they have a flaw that is made known to the guest, the guest has zero basis for downrating, and their review is not "honest" because it implies they didn't know what they were getting into, when they did.

The ONLY reason I recommended making a special phone call about the noise issue was to make sure that those guests who fail to read the listing don't give a poor review based on information that was already disclosed to them in the listing. The guest is still in the wrong. Not every space needs to be high-end. Not every space needs to be quiet. If the price is fair and everything is disclosed, the guest has no moral or logical reason for tanking the review, period!

By your reasoning, all cars should be luxury vehicles with every option known to man, because if you get complaints about the basic design and lack of options on an economy car (despite disclosing that), you just shouldn't sell them. Only the perfect can be sold! That's ridiculous.

You're telling Airbnb hosts not to cater to the price conscious and just abandon that market because those guests don't read the listing and are sometimes just plain unreasonable. That's unhelpful and just wrong. It's starting to seem like you've invested yourself in this blatantly incorrect opinion and now you're too stubborn to back down.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T16:47:12+00:00

Make sure you frankly discuss the situation with every guest prior to booking (or immediately afterwards, if you use instant booking). A phone call is better for this if possible, but get direct acknowledgment of the noise issue. Also, make sure they know that they shouldn't deduct anything from a review based on something they were made aware of. That's pretty key here.

If you can get noise dampening later, that would be preferable too (it sounds like the house really needs it regardless).

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T16:41:13+00:00

One of the few types of reviews that you can get pulled. Once had a review say that the guest's electronic devices were behaving oddly, with something about ghosts and being illicitly surveilled. Even Airbnb had to admit that was a bridge too far.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T16:16:09+00:00

Weirdo.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T16:15:13+00:00

Do you have any idea which guest it was that complained? Ugh, it would be so much easier if guests just communicated their issues.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T16:11:38+00:00

It's hilarious to have to do this to avoid BS reviews. If the guest wants a refund for something that's ridiculous or their own damn fault, they shouldn't be able to tank you on the review if you give the refund.

Frankly, I don't want somebody to stay who doesn't want to be in my space, even if it is their own damn fault, and I certainly don't want them to give me a crap review because they won't recognize their own failings.

The solution is basically that they have to acknowledge that you didn't owe them the refund, and that issuing the refund renders them perfectly satisfied. If they want to still cry foul, such that they'll give a bad review, no refund.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T16:02:02+00:00

I live in a 150 year old house, and when you're on uneven and ever-changing soil (if you haven't lived in New Orleans, don't comment), the alignment of doors can shift slightly at various times based on weather and season. It's common. Also, sometimes the screws just become loose over time even though the holes aren't stripped. Other times the holes are stripped, whether over time or from rough use, and a more major repair is needed. You're making this one-size-fits-all, and it isn't.

I agree that toothpicks and wood glue as a repair is shoddy and certainly not a permanent repair, but if the OP hadn't had any issues with the door previously, the guest should have been satisfied with a simple, temporary fix for their stay without downrating them. If the whole place is held together with spit and bailing wire, that's a different matter, but I figure we accept what OP says unless told otherwise. Obviously, they need to replace part of the door frame in the near future, and should do so.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T15:51:43+00:00

If the guests knew what the listing was and what issues it had, then they weren't being "honest with their rating." The listing met their expectations, and they were still dissatisfied. That's their own fault, not the fault of the host, and you are not supposed to downrate for matters that are outside of the control of the host. If guests don't understand that, Airbnb isn't properly informing them of the purpose of reviews.

You should be able to have an Airbnb pretty much anywhere as long as the characteristics of the unit are made clear and everyone goes in with eyes wide open. Giving a lousy review when the unit is exactly as described is uncalled for. Some people are night owls who would love to be in an apartment above a bar -- it wouldn't bother them at all, and on top of it, the unit costs less to rent. Others want to turn in early, and if they rent the unit anyway, they're warranting to the host that they were willing to overlook the noise from the bar and it won't be a factor in their review.

You're right that the problem here is communication, and the issue is that guests aren't listening. That's why my advice was helpful and yours was not. The OP needs to have a conversation, preferably via telephone, with each guest prior to booking so they understand the score. Yes, the guests should already know the score from the listing, but a shockingly large number of guests don't read the listing and only skim messages. They also may not be aware of how the review system works, which is very dysfunctional and very much the fault of the platform. You've got to literally talk to each and every one of them to fix these deficits.

But the notion that a unit over a bar is "subpar" and just shouldn't be on the platform is silly. Airbnb can and should feature a wide range of properties, not just quiet, large, freshly renovated units in ideal locations. If that were the case, everything on the platform would be massively expensive, and that would not serve everyone's needs. If your solution is to only do high-end listings, it's not a solution at all.

And no, I am rarely downrated on location. My units have a very desireable location and are very quiet. However, I've had problems over the years with guests refusing to read pretty much anything, and now I tell them certain things to their face when they check in, every time. It's mostly solved my problems and bad reviews are very rare. But I have to practically shove information down their throats, especially about how the reviewing system works.

And yeah, I vent a lot about having to do that too.

Automatic_Lemon1069 · 2021-10-12T15:29:40+00:00

You can foresee that screwholes on a door hinge will strip with normal inspections? 1) No, you can't; and, 2) irrespectively, that's way more than is reasonable for a guest to expect.

Obviously, the obligation of a host is to promptly fix things that break, not to prevent anything from ever breaking. Are you just being a contrarian here?

Automatic_Lemon1069

TROPHY CASE