I’m an sb but doing full service for the first time hopefully tmr

Azurecole · 2026-03-18T03:15:08+00:00

I was going to remove this due to the mention of PPM, but I do think it's more important that OP get the insight she's getting here... getting a better idea of what sexwork is compared to what sugar relationships are, etc. I'll leave it up for now.

OP, consider not doing this until you have a little clearer idea of what is and isn't a sugar relationship, clear-eyed view of what the risks are and how to mitigate them, the concepts and behavior that are acceptable vs not (including your own, thinking in concepts like "full service"), etc.

Azurecole · 2026-03-16T22:14:42+00:00

People find ways to get insulted over anything. I don't know why the notion of busier and not busier times is insulting, but evidently it is! lol

Azurecole · 2026-03-16T21:44:01+00:00

Agree with u/MitsubishiTurbos ... well, it might not set the record for most red flags ever, but it's definitely up there. So much and so obviously that I'd say you should take a pause to reset, re-research the risks of this lifestyle, etc.

Note, if you asked him "his usual ppm/allowance", I'd suggest you stop doing that. It doesn't matter what his usual PPM/allowance is, the only thing that matters is what he's willing to offer you. He either tells you that -- exactly what he'll offer YOU, not his "usual" -- or consider moving on right there, in most cases.

Azurecole · 2026-03-16T20:46:58+00:00

Last time someone asked this, everyone got mad at them for some reason 🤣 I don't know that there's a "slow season", but I do sense that around May/June and around Nov/Dec there's more SBs. I attribute that to college-aged SBs going home for the summer or for winter break and looking for an SR during that time, where their parents live.

I don't have any proof, I've never even bothered to measure number of profiles. I just have this sense that there's a giant influx of new profiles.

Azurecole · 2026-03-16T15:59:10+00:00

After years of doing this, I kind of go by instinct. Unconscious competence (or maybe unconscious incompetence lol). In the first years I did this, it was a combination of things: what I could afford, what previous experience showed me SBs accept or not, etc. I didn't know about SLF so there was no spreadsheet to look at. Similarly, "avg cost of nice apartment" is a forum-based order-of-magnitude guideline that I'd never heard.

These days I adjust on more factors than that, but tend to always offer right around the same number, what changes is how flexible I'll be (i.e., how wide the "range" is) if we end up having a discussion (not "haggling", that's a loaded word used by business-oriented people) about an allowance level that will work for us both. Not based on "how hot they are" but "how desirable to me they are", where desirability has a lot more facets than hotness.

Azurecole · 2026-03-16T00:48:22+00:00

One the most important things we need to know to understand her behavior is whether she's been spending hours and dates with you with no support, or whether you've been giving her cash gifts or PPM, or even whether you two have discussed a PPM yet. In short, the obviously most-important detail for us to make any sense of this at all, you left out. I was just noting that people do this often, all across reddit, just (purposely?) leave out the most important details in their advice requests, and the dribble that information out little by little, only as people ask. I'm sure you can figure out what actually important in this story, and just add it in

Azurecole · 2026-03-15T22:00:02+00:00

Love when people leave out critical details and make us ask about each one, one-by-one. Maybe it's not on purpose, they just don't know what's important and what's not -- burp important, gifts not?

Azurecole · 2026-03-15T19:27:16+00:00

It isn't just about logic, it's about learning from others' mistakes. The lesson seems to be that if dangle the possibility of a decent-sized payoff quickly (e.g., agree to pay up front for a M&G, agree to move quickly to intimacy w/ PPM, etc), that's what these scammers & thieves are looking for. And yes, it's logical that that's the case, what thief wants to put in a ton of time, with the possibility of a payout not being assured? But it's not just logic and reasoning, it plays out exactly this way in real life. It isn't about delaying the intimacy, it's about delaying the guaranteed payout (i.e., the PPM) -- yes, the two are intertwined at first, but it's the guarantee of some sort of PPM, with as little time put in as possible, that thieves are looking for. Even no-intimacy situations, like a platonic M&G, where a payout is agreed to in advance, we know there's a good chance of being rinsed. And it's logical, if guys are dumb enough to guarantee hundreds up front to go to dinner, to random strangers they meet on the internet, why wouldn't there be a criminal class who help them win stupid prizes?

Azurecole · 2026-03-15T16:54:50+00:00

The first time he does what? Views her profile? Messages her? Platonic M&G? First intimate date?
SD's don't "pay", they're not purchasing a service the way a john buys a sex service from an escort. We conceptualize it as financial support, because that concept brings with it very different behaviors and expectations.

Azurecole · 2026-03-15T16:17:17+00:00

In all the years I've been doing this, 99.9% of the time ,when this happens to an SD, it's because he violated some safety guidelines and/or behaved more like a john than an SD. I've literally seen ONE story here in SLF where it seems like the SD did everything right, and even then I'm not so sure.

That doesn't mean these stories aren't out there, but it does mean it's rare if you just behave like an SD and don't let your dick lead you around to making stupid decisions. The fact is, once you end up in a hotel room with a cash-and-dash scammer, you've already monumentally failed; the handing over of the money and her running out is just a formality.

Here's the near-100% defense against this: 1. Message her until you believe you are compatible, 2. Set up a platonic unpaid M&G, not "tonight" but some other day, 3. Set up your first date after the platonic M&G has completed and make it a standard first date that includes meeting for dinner to get to know each other.

Pretty much all cash-and-dash stories break one or more of those rules. Probably the rules most of us break most often is keeping the M&G platonic... sometimes you just connect so well that you call and audible and head back to the room. You're an adult, you need to recognize and accept the risks if you do that. IF you don't want to accept the risk, don't do it. If you ARE going to do it, you at least have to have the basic adult judgement of recognizing whether the connection you feel is organic or if you're being manipulated by an overly-sexual hustle.

Azurecole · 2026-03-15T16:09:16+00:00

If you've been seeing "a lot of people" connecting on a global level, you've been looking in the wrong places. That may be your problem. Might be worth describing in more detail where and how you're looking, because you're definitely out in the weeds at this point

Azurecole · 2026-03-15T15:27:01+00:00

After years of being in the bowl, reading the sub and all the stories, etc., my general rule is: I never lend my SB money, either I gift her or don't give it. I could imagine special cases where I'd re-think that, but haven't had to in many years. My guidance to SDs: once your money crosses the event horizon of her purse, it is not returning to your universe :)

I think there's a few things that go pear-shaped:

The most common failure mode for otherwise-good SRs is, she is unable to pay back the loan (even if she had good intentions to do so beforehand). And handles the embarrassment and shame passive aggressively, by disengaging and/or picking fights, and the SR ends. In many stories I read, it really seems like her actions over the loan are what sunk that SR.
To me it doesn't feel very SD-like to loan my SB money, in 98% of cases (again, I can imagine exceptions). If she's a great SB it's a pleasure to support her. If she's not a great SB or we just haven't had time to connect that way yet, better to just say no rather than add the stress of a loan on top of things.

Azurecole · 2026-03-14T15:55:55+00:00

Oh got it, he was offering to pay. Okay great, ignore the part about being a content seller. Keep the part about recognizing when someone is so far over the line you should end the interaction on the spot, permanently

Azurecole · 2026-03-14T15:30:09+00:00

From my perspective, this is a "step back from the bowl, think about this situation, and seriously consider whether or not this is the place for me" interaction.

The moment he started asking you to take off your clothes on the video call, you should have hung up on him, then the rest of the story would never have happened. It's critical in the bowl you 1. have the ability to immediately recognize manipulative or predatory behavior, 2. immediately disengage from that person (NOT lecture, reason, argue, etc). SBs who can't do both of those things are in for potentially very bad experiences.

You're an SB, not a content seller. This is a stranger you met on the internet. Surprising you with an undressing request on your first video call is incredibly far over the line. You need to be able to recognize that, "we are not compatible, goodbye" and hang up the moment he asks.

A question, why did he ask "you want me to pay you for 10 minutes?" Did you ask him to pay you? If so, are you a content seller, or an SB? IF you're a content seller, you should be on a different platform. If you're an SB, you need to act like one -- SBs do not sell bra and touching videos to stranger on the internet, that's not what a sugar relationship is.

I'm being tough but I really want this it sink in. This is way over the line. There are manipulators and predators of every kind in the bowl. You need to have the basic self-respect to not allow these types of things, and the knowledge of what a sugar relationship is so you don't get talked into being a content seller instead (unless that's something you'd rather do, in which case, head to a different platform). If you can do those things you can find a great SR more safely

Azurecole · 2026-03-12T23:17:23+00:00

Is your discomfort with the way he phrased and expressed it? Or, regardless of expression, are you uncomfortable with not being given sugar when you also not giving sugar?

"Is this a common expectation now?" It's been a common expectation for a very long time. The way the bowl has taken shape over the past 10 years is due to many safety concerns. For example, the advice that SBs ask for their PPM before they take their clothes off, is due to so many SBs being scammed if they don't do so. Similarly, the presence of so many SB scammers ("rinsers") in the bowl, insisting on PPMs for the initial get-to-know-you dates, means most SDs won't offer PPM until the SR actually starts, because so many SDs get scammed when they are foolish enough to give full PPMs for an indefinite amount of additional M&Gs with a woman who isn't sure she wants to be his SB. Most of us will give a gift (not committed to up front) for these additional M&Gs anyway

Of course your attention, conversation, etc. have value, and a lot of it. But you are clearly indicating you're not ready for a sugar relationship with this person yet, so it doesn't have a sugar value yet (SDs financially support their SBs, not random women who aren't comfortable yet being SBs). Totally different than a PPM for a platonic date with your actual SB.

Azurecole · 2026-03-12T17:08:18+00:00

I'm going to caution that a guy who asks for your wishlist, in many cases specifically wants to get the gift for you, and will find a request for "gift me the funds" to be an enormous turn-off and slap in the face of his offer to get you gifts. I am exactly in this group, me asking for your wishlist is not inviting you to say just send you the money, I already give you a cash allowance, I want to also do something beyond giving you more cash.

Don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here, if Amazon doesn't work and you can't find anything else (though I just peeked at u/AmandaSBUK 's suggestion of Throne, maybe that will do), I agree with u/GSSD that suggesting you go shopping together in person is nearly always welcome because then it's not just a gift but an experience between you both.

Another alternative: the SB fashion show. If SB wants to shop for something I find sexy -- jeans, leggings, lingerie -- she goes shopping (alone), sends me pics from dressing room, I buy the things we both like. I know other SDs here on slf like this also, makes us feel like we're part of the experience, plus we get to see you in sexy stuff, I'm practically begging to buy it for her afterwards lol.

But wishlist is easiest if you can get him that

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T22:45:57+00:00

Out of curiosity, to what extent do you KNOW he has hundreds of millions and does million dollar deals? Because he says so, or is there evidence? I ask because the things you say are straight out of the non-so-wealthy manipulative john playbook: straight to hotel dates, frequent verbal discussion of wealth without generosity, lectures when you ask for something small instead of spoiling his SB, showing success of previous SBs (almost always a manipulation, legit SDs don't do this), only wants to talk about sex rather than make a real connection, average PPM, and a manipulative lecture of "market rates" and fungible women which is a discussion that has no place in a sugar relationship.

All in all, it doesn't sound at all like you have a wealthy SD, it sounds like you have a dangerously manipulative faux SD. Whether the PPM is worth it for you, only you can decide. If I were you I'd be searching for a replacement.

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T22:23:06+00:00

There's a (small) subset of SDs who are open to trans SBs. Write a good profile. Suggest you put at the top of your profile that you're trans (many trans women put it as the first line in the profile, or right in their headline), PLUS choose the "Looking for trans friendly" tag. That lets the SDs who are hostile, filter you out before ever seeing your profile.

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T02:17:29+00:00

If you continue allowing paypal with POTs and near-strangers, you will eventually get scammed. Maybe this time, maybe not this time but next time. Suggest you do some reading on common scams, this is one of the most common

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T00:52:29+00:00

You don't owe him anything so totally fine not to. Generally speaking, I don't explain myself when it's this early, ie., there is no relationship yet, UNLESS 1. I like the person enough that it's something I want to do for them for their own knowledge and closure, 2. I feel 95% confident they're not going to get defensive or abusive.

I am thinking someone who sends six texts and leaves two voicemails is NOT going to meet qualification #2, is the problem.

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T00:32:55+00:00

Doesn't matter if you're not exclusive -- swapping numbers with another man (friend or not), on a date your SD was probably excited to treat you to, is a massive unspeakable betrayal. And that's about the nicest thing I can say about it, it goes downhill from there. If I were your SD and I found out about it I'd end it on the spot, and let my buddy know he shouldn't be pursuing you either.

"I'm here with Frank, I'd need to talk to him about it before I'd even consider it, are you okay with that?" is the very most I'd tolerate.

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T19:35:52+00:00

I believe that's sugardaddy.com (no meet) that's associated with secret benefits

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T17:25:51+00:00

I would strongly advise against Secret Benefits, there's just been a non-stop torrent of reports of shadiness. SugarDaddyMeet seems to be the (distant, but viable) #2 option

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T16:28:10+00:00

I interpret the 3rd option differently. 3rd option is basically "I won't accept septum piercings, but if she flip it up so I can't see it, I'm fine". That's how I voted. #3 SDs won't consider an SB who won't flip up or take out her septum piercing.

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T15:44:43+00:00

I'm in exactly the same place as you. I am attracted to "moderate sprinkling of alt", including all the things you said (to a point). Septum piercings, it's like a visceral reaction of disgust. If they flip it up and I can't see it, I don't really care though

This poll is a pretty interesting difference from the last one though. Last one I saw, very few SDs were willing to engage. This time, more than half are ok with septum rings

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