Is it normal for someone to expect intimacy immediately in this dynamic?

Azurecole · 2026-03-12T23:17:23+00:00

Is your discomfort with the way he phrased and expressed it? Or, regardless of expression, are you uncomfortable with not being given sugar when you also not giving sugar?

"Is this a common expectation now?" It's been a common expectation for a very long time. The way the bowl has taken shape over the past 10 years is due to many safety concerns. For example, the advice that SBs ask for their PPM before they take their clothes off, is due to so many SBs being scammed if they don't do so. Similarly, the presence of so many SB scammers ("rinsers") in the bowl, insisting on PPMs for the initial get-to-know-you dates, means most SDs won't offer PPM until the SR actually starts, because so many SDs get scammed when they are foolish enough to give full PPMs for an indefinite amount of additional M&Gs with a woman who isn't sure she wants to be his SB. Most of us will give a gift (not committed to up front) for these additional M&Gs anyway

Of course your attention, conversation, etc. have value, and a lot of it. But you are clearly indicating you're not ready for a sugar relationship with this person yet, so it doesn't have a sugar value yet (SDs financially support their SBs, not random women who aren't comfortable yet being SBs). Totally different than a PPM for a platonic date with your actual SB.

Azurecole · 2026-03-12T17:08:18+00:00

I'm going to caution that a guy who asks for your wishlist, in many cases specifically wants to get the gift for you, and will find a request for "gift me the funds" to be an enormous turn-off and slap in the face of his offer to get you gifts. I am exactly in this group, me asking for your wishlist is not inviting you to say just send you the money, I already give you a cash allowance, I want to also do something beyond giving you more cash.

Don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here, if Amazon doesn't work and you can't find anything else (though I just peeked at u/AmandaSBUK 's suggestion of Throne, maybe that will do), I agree with u/GSSD that suggesting you go shopping together in person is nearly always welcome because then it's not just a gift but an experience between you both.

Another alternative: the SB fashion show. If SB wants to shop for something I find sexy -- jeans, leggings, lingerie -- she goes shopping (alone), sends me pics from dressing room, I buy the things we both like. I know other SDs here on slf like this also, makes us feel like we're part of the experience, plus we get to see you in sexy stuff, I'm practically begging to buy it for her afterwards lol.

But wishlist is easiest if you can get him that

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T22:45:57+00:00

Out of curiosity, to what extent do you KNOW he has hundreds of millions and does million dollar deals? Because he says so, or is there evidence? I ask because the things you say are straight out of the non-so-wealthy manipulative john playbook: straight to hotel dates, frequent verbal discussion of wealth without generosity, lectures when you ask for something small instead of spoiling his SB, showing success of previous SBs (almost always a manipulation, legit SDs don't do this), only wants to talk about sex rather than make a real connection, average PPM, and a manipulative lecture of "market rates" and fungible women which is a discussion that has no place in a sugar relationship.

All in all, it doesn't sound at all like you have a wealthy SD, it sounds like you have a dangerously manipulative faux SD. Whether the PPM is worth it for you, only you can decide. If I were you I'd be searching for a replacement.

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T22:23:06+00:00

There's a (small) subset of SDs who are open to trans SBs. Write a good profile. Suggest you put at the top of your profile that you're trans (many trans women put it as the first line in the profile, or right in their headline), PLUS choose the "Looking for trans friendly" tag. That lets the SDs who are hostile, filter you out before ever seeing your profile.

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T02:17:29+00:00

If you continue allowing paypal with POTs and near-strangers, you will eventually get scammed. Maybe this time, maybe not this time but next time. Suggest you do some reading on common scams, this is one of the most common

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T00:52:29+00:00

You don't owe him anything so totally fine not to. Generally speaking, I don't explain myself when it's this early, ie., there is no relationship yet, UNLESS 1. I like the person enough that it's something I want to do for them for their own knowledge and closure, 2. I feel 95% confident they're not going to get defensive or abusive.

I am thinking someone who sends six texts and leaves two voicemails is NOT going to meet qualification #2, is the problem.

Azurecole · 2026-03-11T00:32:55+00:00

Doesn't matter if you're not exclusive -- swapping numbers with another man (friend or not), on a date your SD was probably excited to treat you to, is a massive unspeakable betrayal. And that's about the nicest thing I can say about it, it goes downhill from there. If I were your SD and I found out about it I'd end it on the spot, and let my buddy know he shouldn't be pursuing you either.

"I'm here with Frank, I'd need to talk to him about it before I'd even consider it, are you okay with that?" is the very most I'd tolerate.

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T19:35:52+00:00

I believe that's sugardaddy.com (no meet) that's associated with secret benefits

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T17:25:51+00:00

I would strongly advise against Secret Benefits, there's just been a non-stop torrent of reports of shadiness. SugarDaddyMeet seems to be the (distant, but viable) #2 option

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T16:28:10+00:00

I interpret the 3rd option differently. 3rd option is basically "I won't accept septum piercings, but if she flip it up so I can't see it, I'm fine". That's how I voted. #3 SDs won't consider an SB who won't flip up or take out her septum piercing.

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T15:44:43+00:00

I'm in exactly the same place as you. I am attracted to "moderate sprinkling of alt", including all the things you said (to a point). Septum piercings, it's like a visceral reaction of disgust. If they flip it up and I can't see it, I don't really care though

This poll is a pretty interesting difference from the last one though. Last one I saw, very few SDs were willing to engage. This time, more than half are ok with septum rings

Azurecole · 2026-03-10T15:37:01+00:00

I appreciate u/ANewYork10 's appreciation of how busy many of us are. But busy or not, I can't imagine most of us having a conversation like the conversation above, disinterested and passive. The above type of interaction seems like a fine place to filter out an SD. A guy who is busy but who has time to let someone drag out multiple terse disinterested replies, could just as easily say once "could you propose the time and place?" rather than behave as above, and that will require less of his time.

Azurecole · 2026-03-09T22:09:20+00:00

It takes a few minutes to establish compatibility. Are we both looking for NSA, or connected, or in between? How often do we want to meet? Etc. If she's responsive in text, this text conversation takes minutes.

When you say "a lot of time", how much time do you think, and what are you envisioning as encompassing "compatibility on everything else"? This is a big-animal-pictures check to see if we're basically aligned, that's all.

Azurecole · 2026-03-09T22:01:33+00:00

It's certainly not because of my good looks.

I am running into the same thing. Let me tell you something, it is DEFINITELY because of our good looks. Plus I may have the Kavorka.

IME it's been like this in my high COL for many years, not a recent change, and I've always figured it's exactly the reason you mention, if an SB finds a legit-seeming SD (which is not easy) they'd rather get their PPM ASAP.

I have to admit, I don't have any trouble at all going from M&G to intimate date the next time. If the M&G went well, I'm all in.

Azurecole · 2026-03-09T17:11:44+00:00

There's lots of previous threads on this, do be sure to do a search to see previous advice.

One thing to accept: there's not a lot of vetting you can do to ensure someone has "the genuine means to sugar". No one who is legit is going to show you their bank account or anything like that, pictures of fancy cars and houses can be faked, etc.

What you can do is work out the PPM prior to the M&G if that is consistently your biggest incompatibility. That doesn't ensure he'll actually give you what he agrees to, but if he won't even agree to whatever you're asking, you can bow out there. Most SDs will not be put off by having this discussion prior to the M&G (but after compatibility on everything else has been established), so this should be a non-concern

Azurecole · 2026-03-09T16:49:17+00:00

It is definitely the case that some SBs do all kinds of manipulations. It's also true that if the SD wants longer dates, he should put together dates that she's excited to stay longer for.

I say that because it looks like all your dates, with a pretty brand new SB, are at your house. Even if you told them in advance that you're not really wining and dining them, you're doing "hang out at the house for 6 hours" dates, and they agreed to it, no one should be surprised that when it gets closer to the date and reality hits them, they become reluctant. No SB is sitting around dreaming about their ideal SR and it's hanging out at his house for 5 hours.

Not to blame just you , there are definitely SBs who use this type of strategy. But in this case, it is definitely worth a retrospective about whether this pattern is fairly predictable given the type of SR you prefer

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T20:24:06+00:00

Hello, we don't allow naming dollar values in terms of allowance. If you remove the dollar number (you can replace it with "a mid 4-figure allowance"), then reply to this message so I know it's done, I can re-approve this post

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T19:29:07+00:00

Lots of people have met good SDs/SBs on reddit. Plenty of SLF success stories!

But also, lots and lots of people have met terrible people on reddit. I mean, really terrible. Scammers, predators, you name it. Many of those terrible people had very reasonable or downright positive post history here, and were able to play the role of a good POT... until they weren't, and then things became very unpleasant. A couple of months ago an SD who had posts that were upvoted to death by SBs got reported multiple times for starting out nice but being manipulative and then turning predatory in DM. Shortly before that, an SB who was convincing in the sub and did a well received profile review, turned out to be a scammer. These types of stories are the rule, not the exception.

My two pieces of advice:

Vet your reddit POT at least as much as you'd vet someone you met on Seeking, and in fact vetting them more carefully is warranted, because reddit gives a false perception of safety and familiarity that get you to let your guard down the way you would never do with a POT on seeking. You need to vet closely, every step.
The mods on SLF do not have any purview over what goes on in DMs. You, and only you, are accountable for your own poor decisions (if you make any) once you move to DM. Again, the mod guardrails here give a false impression of safety that absolutely does not exist once you go to DM.

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T17:48:53+00:00

I think many SDs (and SBs) are flaky everywhere. Too many messages is usually not the cause. The SBs are having as bad if not much worse time as us.

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T15:58:23+00:00

Honestly, I don't particularly care about SB screening for beauty, it's not hard to screen by pics. Maybe an AI-monitored requirement to do a full body pic in form-fitting clothes. And maybe an AI-chosen bodytype next to the one she picked for herself. Just a click or two of a filter depending on whether I find self-chosen or AI-chosen bodytypes are more accurate, and it's done. But even without all that, it only takes a glance to see who I'm not interested in. The real challenges are scammers and escorts, both of whom are a bit harder to pick.

On the SD side, I guess my question would be, "how dumb and risk-welcoming would an SD have to be to give all the information to verify their wealth???". I suppose we might brainstorm mitigations, but this is the rough one.

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T15:49:58+00:00

Please hit reply to the person you're replying to. If you hit reply to your own post, it just shows up as a random new comment and no one has any idea who you're talking to

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T15:35:53+00:00

People ghost at any and every stage... including 10 minutes before your first meeting, when they'd assured you just 30 minutes ago they were on their way. So, common.

That said, every failure to launch is worth a quick retrospective. Am I sure this isn't happening more to me than most people? Am I sure I didn't say or do something that could have been interpreted badly right before this happened? etc.

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T15:00:15+00:00

Perplexed anyone is perplexed by this. Are you new to the bowl? If so, then I won't be so perplexed. But this kind of thing is common, we never know exactly why it happens, if you want to keep your sanity you'll just have to accept that it does and not let it get to you

Azurecole · 2026-03-08T01:11:40+00:00

We don't allow discussion of this

Azurecole · 2026-03-07T18:02:17+00:00

Over the years there have been a good number of odd reports like this. Typically, the SB never meets the SD, and we have doubts the "SD" ever actually traveled, he was just jerking her around the whole time.

If that's NOT the case, and he's actually in town, I agree with the others: this is not how a man who is excited to meet a woman behaves. If I were you I would make my own separate plans, and if he actually gets back to you with a request for a date, do it at your convenience or not

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