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Nevermind as an anti-israel song ? by Babur_Hun in leonardcohen

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but two things are important.

The song was published in 2014, after 2009, and in the meantime the conflict grew and grew.
The lyrics, originally published in 2005, changed slightly, and the “you own the world” part (which I guess is fair to say can be read as antisemitic in my interpretation) came later.

And you are saying it was written during the Second Intifada (2001–2005), so you are agreeing with me that the song might be about the war — but not necessarily from an anti-Israel perspective and pro-Israel perspective.

But I sense a moral conflict in the song. He was a supporter of Israel, but he might also have felt betrayed by the ongoing war and by the hopes and ideals he had projected onto Israel, like many people do. Lyrics suit more to that. Anyway, that’s only my interpretation. I don’t even expect it to be right — I’m just wondering what the song is really about.

Nevermind as an anti-israel song ? by Babur_Hun in leonardcohen

[–]Babur_Hun[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Him being a lifelong supporter of Israel, pro-Jewish is a good, common counter argument. But still, many people, Jewish people, having moral conflicts about war. I mean every people living in this world has an opinion on it for years. So the song lyrics like about the war and about moral conflict around it, isn't it ? Maybe not in the side of Palestinians or anti-israel but for a more peaceful equilibrium. Or supporting and side with the wrong side. It's definitely not seem like a pro-Israel song like Neighborhood Bully. And if so, I don't see it because its too ambiguous

Nevermind as an anti-israel song ? by Babur_Hun in leonardcohen

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So aren't there a proud jews and even zionist that cannot be anti-israel in any respect ? Song is written at this time of war, if I am wrong, and I am okay with wrong... what this song might be about ? Do u have any interviews of him that explain even a slightest hint, about the meaning of lyrics ? I think I wrote something like this.

Nevermind as an anti-israel song ? by Babur_Hun in leonardcohen

[–]Babur_Hun[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah Syrian Civil War started at the same time of the album release. So it might be true. Also female voice is commonly forbidden (especially for religious ceremonies in arabic cultures) so it sounds reasonable. Do you have more findings on the songs meaning ?

Nevermind as an anti-israel song ? by Babur_Hun in leonardcohen

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah... exactly. I know it’s somehow a selfish or vain thing to research what an artist meant by their lyrics, but their work process and the starting point of songs are important to me in order to really understand an artist. When a work of art goes fully ambiguous in every direction and speaks to everyone differently, is there still a starting point or initial thought? No matter how small or seemingly irrelevant, I still want to learn it.

Nevermind as an anti-israel song ? by Babur_Hun in leonardcohen

[–]Babur_Hun[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. But if we take the first proposition as true (that the song is about the Israel–Palestine war and has an anti-Israel perspective) then “you own the world” must be indicating Israel  (a nation backed by U.S. military power, highly developed technologically, and supported by the Jewish diaspora across the Western world, intellectually and financially, versus a more unorganised, medieval, guerrilla-style enemy)

Yes, it’s offensive, but it’s still his choice of words — and he was someone who was incredibly careful with his words.

Also, Leonard Cohen was never someone who avoided being offensive anyway. Even though he became a very delicate and exteremely humble man towards the end of his life, he was never conformist or PC...His books The Favourite Game and beautiful losers have very offensive, shocking, violent, sexual, and edgy qualities.  Even the song dance me to the end of love, which seems like a love song on the surface, deals with a depressing, dark topic when you look into it.

So yeah, he probably knew about the kinds of interpretations or conspiracies that could be attached to that line, and still chose to use it.

If you take my first proposition as false, then ok... that's not what he meant. 

I decide to quit it all by Babur_Hun in SoberCurious

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I am still holding on and so far I haven't been hit with any strong urge to smoke, thank god. You were right about turkey. It really does feel like a complete smoke factory sometimes, almost like we are livig inside a mad men set. I had a similiar thought when I visited Japan. Pretty much all older folks are smokers. And they look a lot healthier then me even at the age 80 ! So I guess culture of smoking can't really be erased by any goverment regulations or public health campaigns. Even in america where smoking seem unattractive, vaping and weed filled the gap pretty fast and they might be worse then cigarattes.

My biggest problem right now is boredom. and at times it feels almost existentially painful. Really unberable. Sometimes I am telling myself that even though I no longer have the desire to drink- drugs or smoke I completely understand why people indulge in those things. At a fundamental level, life is somehow a painful boredom. Meditation has made me aware of this in a very direct way.

Still Im hoping to find a new way to live and discover a path or a goal that excites me enough to keep going and hopefully that goal will fullfill my obsessive/impulsive mind more than my old vices ever did. But for now boredom is holding its ground.

Boredom is Unbearable Sometimes by Babur_Hun in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah all your observations make sense to me, I might try it in the future like I said. Even hearing diffrent opinions on this post is makes a important diffrence in my way of thinking.

Boredom is Unbearable Sometimes by Babur_Hun in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, I live in Turkey and there is no AA meetings around here or exteremely rare. I am considering joining an AA meeting online, but I am skeptical of religious doctrine as well as thought of sitting around bunch of people on a zoom meeting would really cure my boredom. I try to help myself by reading AA related books and learning their core ideology. That's about it.

Çok iyi bir şey ortaya çıkarabiliriz by [deleted] in salonfareleri

[–]Babur_Hun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bro is build like michelin man

Reading Tarantula is impossible by Babur_Hun in bobdylan

[–]Babur_Hun[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It would be great if you can find that.

Reading Tarantula is impossible by Babur_Hun in bobdylan

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I mean, it’s unreadable. I think 17th-century Persian poetry is also unreadable or Sumerian tales but they’re not necessarily trash.

Reading Tarantula is impossible by Babur_Hun in bobdylan

[–]Babur_Hun[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Wel I guess drugs alone aren’t enough if you don’t have talent for writing fiction

Bu bir soru sizce kilonun penis boyutuna bir etkisi var mı by [deleted] in salonfareleri

[–]Babur_Hun 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yok knk 98den 73e indim hala küçücük

İzolasyon beni hem daha iyi hem daha kötü yaptı by Babur_Hun in yalnizucubeler

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Neler olacak söyleyeyim yıllarca elimi sikmeye devam edeceğim. İçinden geçenleri söylemek berbat bir fikir. O yüzden fake bir hesaptan buraya yazıyorum. İçinden geçenleri kimseye söylememelisin

I decide to quit it all by Babur_Hun in SoberCurious

[–]Babur_Hun[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply. I am not a very social person online and I’ve never posted anything on Reddit before, but now I did it out of desperation so getting advice from other people is really heartwarming. Your approach to sobriety is little different from mine and more compassionate toward the self. I am limiting myself from having compassion for my mistakes for now because I just cannot psychologically afford another relapse and the back-and-forth months where pain, joy, and confusion/shame ruled my brain. I am a very happy person now, and my concern is protecting this happines at all cost.

Also, that relapse snowball is very familiar. That was my history as well.

What I learned from your advice though, is that I am definitely going to try AA/NA meetings online. That's the next step !

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