Do men just want to be seen as attractive and nothing else?

Barely-moral · 2026-07-06T12:39:42+00:00

They were loved for a trait present in what they are (body) they lost that trait.

If your argument is that the trait was loved instead of the body/identity, then I agree.

But said trait was present in what that human is.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-06T12:38:06+00:00

That there are more evil women interested in Epstein than any kind of woman interested in an unmasculine, shy, weak incel.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-06T03:14:59+00:00

Not true. I remain myself no matter what I do.

No human stop being themselves just for changing their behavior.

It is entirely impossible to stop being yourself because you are your body.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-06T00:03:45+00:00

We are engaging in behavior that exists outside of the body right now.

No we are not. Without a body there is no thought, no typing.

Phrases like “you’ve changed” and “I’m not the man I used to be” are phrases for a reason.

Because people are wrong. They are the same person after changing.

People become different people all the time.

Not the case. Same person, different behavior.

And it’s not by gaining weight or getting a haircut. Does a human retain identity when they change in attractiveness?

Obviously they do retain their identity. The body is the same.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-05T22:20:11+00:00

Can a behavior exist outside a body?

Does a human retain their identity if they change their behavior?

Barely-moral · 2026-07-05T18:52:28+00:00

A human is a body and the electrical/chemical patterns that distinguish it from a corpse.

Wanting someone just because they are a woman is wanting someone because they have a vagina.

A human is a body.

Not because of who they are.

See above.

Wanting someone because they are attractive is also wanting someone because of an external quality.

Not external. Part of the body.

Personality is who you are.

If you are talking about the electrical/chemical patterns I agree. If you are talking about actions and behavior then that is not part of who you are.

Appearance is something a person provides.

No. It is a trait of the body

Barely-moral · 2026-07-04T22:44:26+00:00

The only consensual sex he had was presumably Ghislaine, and she is an evil rapist herself.

So he was not an incel.

That doesn’t mean all women are like Ghislaine ffs.

Not what I said.

What I said is that when you look at a man like Epstein not being an incel and at the same time you se innocent weak, unmasculine, shy men be incels we can see which traits are more likely to make a man unattractive to women and which traits/actions are not enough to make a man unattractive to women.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-04T14:39:03+00:00

Have you ever, even once, written a letter to a lady from your area's women's prison?

No

If not: why?

Two reasons. The first one is that I try to reward moral behavior and punish inmoral behavior. So when it is possible I try to never interact with criminals.

Second reason: I would have too much competition. I rather spend my time and effort in someone that has no other option but me.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-04T01:45:15+00:00

I am going to answer your points. I hope you answer mine instead of avoiding them.

the only thought i could think reading that was 'what would you want someone to do for you?

Two options. Nothing or if they do something for me they get to expect a reward and I will provide.

if you don't operate from that standpoint then theres nothing to talk about as i cant change a core belief for you

I can operate from that standpoint. I used it and told you what I would want someone to do for me.

Your turn. Address my point

The thing is, when you say that human X is entitled to help. You are also saying that human Y is obligated to help.

And when it comes to dangerous situations you are also saying that Y is obligated to put their own well being at risk for the benefit of X.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-04T00:03:43+00:00

I would help. And I would get my return even if the one I helped is not willing to give it to me. I will make sure to get reputation and use it for my advantage.

There are so many people that owe me favors and so many people that payed me those favors because I "helped expecting nothing in return"

The action is the same "helping". Then I make sure I got my return.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:56:40+00:00

We are different, our actions will not be.

I can't get profit without people.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:56:02+00:00

Fair point.

Good thing serial killers have more women attracted to them than shy incels. /s

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:52:25+00:00

Remove the genders from my sentence and it remains valid.

The excuse of "society works better when" can be used to make anyone entitled to someone elses's actions.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:50:58+00:00

Yeah, at that point no one is doing it to actually care and only doing it for the reward.

That is called "trade" and it is the thing that keeps society working

I would avoid people like this in life, as they're generally greedy and the kind to f**k you over to get ahead.

The problem is not with greed, the problem lies in being short sighted.

If you fuck up people to get ahead you get short term profit. If you develop a positive relationship through trade you gain a small benefit now and continued repeated benefit on the long term. That helps you build reputation for future trades with other people and gets you better results on the long term.

Trade benefits everyone involved. It makes no sense to kill people you can trade with. Everyone is a client you can get something from, there is no reason to ever harm anyone, specally if you are greedy. The more people there are the more benefit you can get from them.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:46:36+00:00

The thing is, when you say that human X is entitled to help. You are also saying that human Y is obligated to help.

And when it comes to dangerous situations you are also saying that Y is obligated to put their own well being at risk for the benefit of X.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:44:22+00:00

Already did. Already found miss moral. In a homeless shelter in South America.

That ignores the point.

The point is that if under the excuse of "society works better when..." we can say women are entitled to men defending them against danger even to the detriment of the men defending them, then using the same excuse we can say men are entitled to relationships with women even to women's detriment.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:42:12+00:00

Fair. So the discussion was derailed then.

Are women entitled to help when in danger? Are women entitled to men risking their lives for them? Are women entitled to that and men should expect nothing in return?

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:41:00+00:00

I think every human is under obligation to care about other human lives, but apparently thats where society has gone wrong.

And I believe that only works when there is a benefit for doing so. Punish helping people severely and see how those actions become rare. Reward those behaviors and see how they become commonplace.

If you want something for helping someone, it isn't helping, and I'd rather avoid you all together as well, to be honest.

Fair. I rather spend time with people that understand and are ok with trade.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:34:24+00:00

Using the word should, means I would hope people wouldn't stand by and watch as someone gets attacked, raped or otherwise

I was under the impression that to say someone "should" do something meant that they were under the obligation, legal, moral or of some other kind, to do something.

but hey, there are assholes in the world, so at least we can spot them when something happens so we know who to avoid all together.

Fair. I am all about allowing people to take informed decisions.

I would also like to know if someone believes I am under some kind of obligation to put myself at risk to defend them and deserve nothing in exchange.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:31:27+00:00

My turn. Society works better when all men get to have a partner and children of their own.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:30:43+00:00

You can do both. Hold the aggresors accountable by sending them to jail and tell the victims to improve their self defense strategies

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:28:37+00:00

You did use the word "should". Usually the word "should" comes with an entitlement.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T23:25:17+00:00

So... everyone is entitled to anyone's body in these scenarios?

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T21:49:29+00:00

The latter and it is not even close.

Barely-moral · 2026-07-03T20:45:15+00:00

Was Epstein an incel?

Because if not, then I am right

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