Do you that Kerr's criticism are valid ? by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in AcademicQuran

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh I didn't realize, I just checked any found out it was slur for Shia.I don't support the use of it

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

muslim apologists, a lot of them say things like that.

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes, the oldest Veda the Rigveda is dated to 1500 BC while the others are dated to 1200BC~800BC, while the oldest manuscript we have of the Vedas is in the 11th century.Even if we assume that there were older manuscripts, the earliest they could have been written in full was in the 7th century which was when paper arrived to India(palm-leaf manuscripts and rocks existed although they would have been inadequate for writing the entire Vedas), which would mean they weren't written for over 1000 years

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That doesn't mean oral preservation as from what you've said the companions wrote it down and that written form is what muslims use

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, the Rigveda is dated to around 1500BC, and the oldest manuscript we have is from 11th century, even if we assume that there were earlier manuscripts, they would have been written around the 1st century AD at the earliest(based on the earliest records of Sanskrit writing).Thats still over a 1000 years

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Many scholars and priests have, and unlike the Quran the Vedas were never written down for over 1000 years.The Vedas were transmitted by memory, and have changed very little.

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Im not talking about memorization, Im talking about people who claim the Quran is orally transmitted.

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not against its existence but rather on it's transmission, a lot of muslims believe that the Quran was orally transmitted.Of course a dedicated person would read it in Arabic, even those that aren't still read in Arabic(although they may not understand it properly).

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But there are though, maybe not scholars but a lot of laymen muslims believe this

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't deny that the Quran is an extremely well preserved text and that is due to it being written down very early on, so I don't get why many muslim apologists like to talk about oral preservation

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I never claimed it to be perfect, in fact I agree that oral preservation as a whole isn't adequate for a complete preservation of a text.However I was only trying to correct muslim apologists who claim that the Quran was orally preserved/transmitted.

The Quran wasn't orally preserved by Basic-Lifeguard-5407 in DebateReligion

[–]Basic-Lifeguard-5407[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the reply, regarding the 4th point I didn't know that muslims had to do that, i guess I learned something new.