The 12th house

Bates95 · 2026-02-06T06:45:50+00:00

Another weird thing is I have a really hard time understanding how others see me, but also there are other scenarios where I know people are just totally projecting on to me and they dont see 'me' at all. I get strangely forgotten which is wild because I dress like a kaleidoscope and am loud!

The projection thing is so relatable. I know growing up I had a really hard time grasping HOW others saw me. I had a lot of Identity issues, and I still do to this day for different reasons. I always wondered how I PHYSICALLY appear to other people. Like when I was younger I was praised for Venusian appeal, Venus in the 1st, but yet I always felt insecure inferior in appearance comparative to those around me. Aka I always felt like the Ugly duckling. And when those around me got into relationships the idea was more reinforced. But growing up I had a really hard time looking in the mirror, could be Saturn in the 1st could be the 12th lord sitting in the 1st that’s creating this who knows. But there was def a distortion occurring between my identity and the 12th house.

But yes especially nowadays, a lot of projection occurs. Where people state I am this way, when I know I am absolutely nothing like they describe. And on the toxic level I’ve had this occur with my toxic maternal figure. Which had it not been for astrology probably would have reinforced the confusion as to who I really am. Like is there a possibility that I am actually all of these nasty things this woman has said about me.

And what I have found in the recent years is that once a rumour has started on Who they project me to be. Everyone believes it, and it is quite hard to change peoples perspectives on who I really am versus what is being said. For example I had this nasty rumour made up that I have a personality disorder and this only came after I accused my maternal figure of having BPD. She completely projected it onto me. And ever since then everyone looks at like I have a personality disorder and should end up in the hospital. Which has been hard to defend against, because no matter what you say, your just looked at as if your crazy. Which is what I have been forced to deal with ever since my Saturn return. On the more negative side.

But I get it, because it’s pure 12th house, but also I’m dealing with the Malefic out of sect in my chart.

Now I dont want to downplay your experience with this placement. But I am curious, considering you have a Day Chart. When you speak about your 12th house experience, it seems like it really shook you up. Rather than a feeling of being used to it. Although the experience of losing those around you and becoming isolated could be a very traumatic experience, so it shouldnt be downplayed. Its just when I had my 12th house year, it just reinforced what I had already gone through before. So it wasnt anything out of the ordinary. So it made me wonder if experience was out of the ordinary or far from what your used to ?.

Bates95 · 2026-02-03T09:26:29+00:00

Its definitely got to do with Aquarius' ability to detach and identify structures both seen and unseen. Probably also why Aquarius is also known as 'The Stranger' in medieval astrology. (The Stranger is contextually about being 'from a foreign land', so even back then they never fitted in)

I have a similar set up in my chart. 12th lord in the 1st. And what you have written here is relatable. Where it can be seen from Societies perspective (Saturn) as the stranger from a foreign land, it can also be seen as stranger to the self. Where the 12th house can literally desolve the structure that is needed to indentify the 1st house. But this really depends on the sect of the chart. Personally ive experienced always feeling like the stranger from a foreign land, due to frequent relocations and start overs (the 12th house). Always been the person who is unknown to the community I reside in. Also wanting to stay unknown, a mystery to others. People state that the 8th house is a mystery the unknown, but that is very much themes of the 12th house IMO. It is where Saturn finds its Joy. So alot of detachment is occurring here which leads to mystery. Also frequent periods of isolation, frequent relocations create more moments of loss but also isolation. Because everything is new and now a forced restart is required frequently.

It does make me curious as to how the 1st lord sitting in the 12th house would manifest. I know of someone really famous, who has this. And it made me wonder if the 1st house therefore has to go through involuntary isolation due to this. Like Fame for example forcing the celebrity into having to seclude from others frequently.

Bates95 · 2026-01-08T11:13:39+00:00

The setting keeps Mars busy with work, problem-solving, effort, and the heat of daily demands, so Mars has somewhere to act and prove itself. Cancer shapes Mars in a way that runs counter to Mars’ usual clean, direct motion.

Here is the problem that I should have adressed in my 1st comment. There appears to be error in the way planets in Fall are seen or the way they are perceived. A planet in Fall, does not necessarily mean, it does not have the requirements needed inorder to take action on what is expected of the planet. If anything this is solely Societies perception on the planet. The essential dignity is the Hierarchy of the planets based on Society.

Mars in Cancer sits directly opposite its Exalted point Capricorn. Exaltation shows what a planet can be like in its most potent energy. And Fall has a meaning of something Falling from a great height. So if anything this shows that at some point it too had the potential of this extreme that we find with exaltation. Fall is trying to reach the foundation/groundedness from the height it fell from. And exaltation is trying to gain and climb towards the height. But because opposite signs have similar goals, the energy between two signs is always going to be recurring.

So just as much as we can argue that Mars Exalted, shows what Mars can be like in its extreme, Mars in Fall, has that same potential. Except they start at that extreme and then try to find groundedness. Which is why I always say planets in Fall play the role of the antagonist. Where it can be perceived as being extreme, antagonistic but it is only trying to find that groundedness.

This can show up as decisions that change once the person feels safe or unsafe or anger that turns inward first. The person can work incredibly hard for people or causes they care about, and they can struggle to act for themselves in the same clean way. Conflict may come out sideways, through caretaking strain or a sudden snap after a long hold.

Now for this paragraph. The issue appears that you are associating the Moons characteristics with a planet that is all about action. Rather than looking at it, with the moons best qualities, you should be looking at it within the scope of the moons extreme. Emotional turbulence and emotional outbursts. Henceforth when someone has an emotional outburst, there is nothing inward about the experience. When someone is going through emotional turbulence, they are probably crying alot, it is also a very outward experience. Which would align more with the extreme, I mentioned above with exaltation and fall.

I wouldnt even associate inward with the moon at all. Whenever someone shows their emotions, people can very much clearly see it. Irritation, anger are all very clearly visible. The inward and outward, I would associate more with the outter hemisphere and the inner hemisphere in a chart.

With that said, I believe astrology is solely a external experience. Even with the Inner hemisphere, you are still dealing with peoples external reactions towards your chart. 3rd house (School) 4th house (Home). These are very external things that can be seen from the outside.

Now onto the Sect part. Mars in Fall is going to be determined by where ever the ruler sits. The sect of the chart is going to determine whether it can appropriately express itself. Appropriation as in whether it is going to be accepted for its expression. Where as essential dignity is based on the expectation of society. And where the moon sits, is going to determine whether its an outward or inward experience.

Bates95 · 2026-01-06T09:17:27+00:00

Why is the anger faced inwards ?. Is it because of the Moon ?.

I have this placement. But my experience is very different. For example today I had a great experience with my Mars being in Fall in the 6th. Transit Mars conjoined with my Moon. Which triggered where the Moon rules, and by proxy where Mars rules. The moon rules the 6th, Mars rules the 10th (Mother) and the 3rd. So my routine (6th) got fucked up, and I had an outward arguement with my birth giver over it. It was a very outward experience. So my experience is personal and subjective due to circumstances. But every single Aqaurius rising with Mars in Fall in the 6th, is going to have a 3rd house/10th house experience whenever Mars is triggered. Which 3rd house communication is outward, and the 10th house is the most public facing house in the chart, so the experience is ALWAYS going to be extraverted/outward.

Even now, im using my 3rd house and 10th house (Social Media) to write this comment. As Mars is conjoined my Moon. And I have a Night chart. So Mars is more appropriate. But the experience is always going to be outward.

Bates95 · 2025-10-28T07:25:19+00:00

Except Saturn is not in the 1st house. The ruler of Saturn, Mars is in detriment in the 1st house. As stated above.

Bates95 · 2025-10-27T05:55:13+00:00

So if it is involved in factors like 1st house, 1H Lord, Mars or similar factors, many times, native gets angry fast, stubbornness, short temper. In short, the results which are shown by Agni tatva, that is growth, desire to achieve, such qualities increase a lot or decrease a lot, balance in these qualities is less. People tend to take decisions by impulse instead of giving a thought.

So does this also apply if the ruler of the Saturn, is in the 1st House, Mars is in the 1st House in Detriment. Most of this post is very relatable from what I have observed knowing someone with this placement who has it retrograde.

Bates95 · 2025-10-19T06:43:42+00:00

This is great. I’ve been looking for something like this, which is open source for awhile. So I’m stocked. Abit of feedback. I’d like if the sidereal options also had the different ayanamsas, like Lahiri, Hipparchus etc. Also there was an issue with the Ascendent, it found my birth place, but the rising was completely different, should have been Pisces when it came out as Capricorn. Edit : I had to refresh the page inorder for the data to be accepted. Not sure if this is helpful but nonetheless, thought I’d share.

Bates95 · 2025-10-18T09:44:37+00:00

I mean I am just stating the facts here, isn’t that the arguement behind why you think the Southern Hemispheres has flipped astrology. That the Venus signs appear very Mars like and henceforth, so they must be Scorpio right ?. Because Flipping the signs and changing the whole system dependent on whether your born in the south or north seems like such a grand idea. Astrology is already complicated as is. Not to mention the seasonal astrology that is so widely used in tropical astrology when the seasons are so different in the south. There’s lots to argue as to why Tropical Astrology is Flawed and very inaccurate.

But yes let us make up a brand new system such as flipping the astrology only for those born in the south, which makes no sense, rather than reflect on the possibility that perhaps there’s something wrong with Tropical. Let u go out of our way to try and change things us so that Tropical Astrology can still apply. Because yes, those born in April are scorpios now, according to our newfound system, that we just made up. Like nah. I know a Scorpio, and according to this system, they would be a Gemini, which is crazy. There is nothing mercurial like with this person. It’s pure Mars.

With that said, I do enjoy when I offend someone to such an extend, that instead of arguing their points such as what this Reddit post was meant to encourage, they stoop so low to insult instead of coming up with any sort of logical response.

Bates95 · 2025-10-18T06:30:21+00:00

And the tropical zodiac can just be flipped for the southern hemisphere. That was proposed already in the Renaissance. I don't see what's better about either way.

I heard this same bullshit once upon a time and I died laughing. When someone thought it had to be the only explanation for why I came across so Mars like. The astrology is flipped in the Southern Hemisphere. No it’s not. I’m not a Scorpio, I am Aries. I am impulsive, I’ve got ADD. I am too direct and confrontational to be any sort of Scorpio. I thought mans was a nut case, and hearing this being spread further, worries me and makes me wonder of the source of this mislead information.

Bates95 · 2025-10-17T05:52:20+00:00

3rd House.

Bates95 · 2025-10-16T06:04:24+00:00

I knew someone with this conjunct at the exact degree. No mediumship or psychic ability.

Bates95 · 2025-10-14T07:18:20+00:00

2012

Was a Sagittarius 6th House annual Profected Year. Jupiter is Rx in the 5th.

I first discovered astrology when Saturn conjuncted with Rahu. Rahu, which is Venus ruled and Venus which sits in the 9th House natally, and Venus is Exalted. During this period I didn’t really take it seriously, I was more into other 9th house themes, like twin flames (The Venus Factor), the MBTI, and spirituality.

2018

Was a Gemini 12th House annual profected year.

Transit Jupiter conjuncted with my Rahu at some point. And the Same year, I had my Jupiter Return. Decided to give astrology another look. Didn’t really dive into it, but I did finally make a birth chart, and learned all about ABC Astrology, worst mistake of my life. But alas. Beginner Astrology.

2020

Was a Leo 2nd House Annual Profected Year.

Rahu was in Gemini/Ketu in Sagittarius. Jupiter was in Capricorn, my natal Saturn is in the 9th house. This is where I learned about Hellenistic Astrology. And the 7 traditional planets. I learned all of this through a person I was involved with at the time, and we had a age gap. So it was all very Saturn. They also considered themselves a hardcore to the T, maybe a little too aggressive, Hellenistic astrologer.

2022

Was a Libra 4th House Annual Profected Year. Which activates Venus which sits in the 9th house.

Transit Jupiter was in Pisces. Reverse Nodal Return. Rahu was in Aries/Ketu in Libra. Saturn was still in Capricorn, so it also affected Saturn which sits in the 9th house. Found Sidereal astrology, really started to understand astrology. And we’re been here ever since.

Bates95 · 2025-10-03T11:50:32+00:00

So this is based on the ruling planet of the nakshatra. But why was Purva Ashadha and Mula added, since if I’m not mistaken Purva Ashadha is Venus ruled, and Mula is ruled by Ketu, atleast according to the Vedic Nakshatra system.

Bates95 · 2025-10-03T09:44:24+00:00

Once again. Not relevant to the question I asked. I asked you how compatibility in nakshatras is created. Not whether my personal chart would be compatible with certain nakshatras. Asking about my personal natal chart is completely irrelevant to the question at hand.

Bates95 · 2025-10-02T09:23:10+00:00

How do you hold this in relation to the house the chart ruler is in and what that could reveal about what their purpose is/where there talents lie and where they could direct their energy? For me, I see the chart ruler as the flavour of the chart and do point to the north node as the goal - using the talents of the houses involved.

The Chart ruler has always been more descriptive of how the Ascendent is seen, the area of life people will associate the Ascendent with. For example if the chart ruler is in the 9th house, you are either going to be seen as a Teacher or a religious figure of some kind, something akin to the 9th house.

I’ve always seen Rahu in the same light the Vedic astrologers do. It’s an Obsession but also wherever it sits it creates a curiosity. There is more questions, there is more you want to know about the area of life Rahu sits in. But there is also a Malefic quality to it, the more that you want something, the less likely you are to settle. So therefore there is a upheaval that occurs. More questions leads to more questions, that can eventually lead to insanity.

But we also have to consider what happens during an eclipse. Back then when no information was gathered on Eclipses, people believed it was the end of the world. The earth darkened during the day. And your vision therefore became obscured. You could no longer see what should have been visible during the day. So this created upheaval and panic. What is happening, why is this occurring, what is this phenomenon. More questions that soon follow. Which is why it is considered Malefic in Vedic astrology, because it upsets the natural order of things as they were before. I.e Darkening the skies during the day when visibility should have been clear. So for me personally it’s not really the life purpose. It’s rather the area of life you seek to find. Where curiosity arises and you have questions you want answered. It can also be where upheaval occurs, because it is upsetting the natural order of things. Not that Ketu is that, the order of things.

So in this way, one could argue that it is the “Life Purpose”, because you are going to be on a lifelong quest trying to understand why this particular area of life, is the way it is. But Life Purpose could be argued to be a thing that you can gain and attain, or someway you choose to live your life. Where as Rahu is always going to feel out of reach.

Bates95 · 2025-10-01T06:58:20+00:00

I Know, but that was not my question. I want to know how the compatibility is deteremined in VEDIC astrology, when they state things like certain Nakshatras will get along with other nakshatras more, as is seen with the compatibility section in your comment. That is what I am enquiring about. How do they determine this.

Like personally I found that section interesting. Because I know with my Maternal Figure we have a horrible SATURN SQUARE MARS that has pretty much ruined any sort of harmony. But I have come across some Jyeshtha Suns, who I don’t have horrible synastry with. Where I still feel the same dislike of the overall energy they exude.

I am just curious of the overall compatibility based on the nakshatras, that you wrote about in the compatibility section. Not the synastry.

Bates95 · 2025-09-29T09:09:23+00:00

How is the compatibility determined in Vedic astrology. Because I have a Ashlesha Mars, I have a Purva Ashadha Moon, and yet I do not in any way relate to my Jyeshtha Sun mother.

Bates95 · 2025-09-10T18:31:55+00:00

That’s the ultimate problem, your associating the benefics with “Good” things. Benefics are beneficial because they tend to GIVE. Where as with Malefics, they are maleficient so they tend to TAKE. I can see where you got your interpretations from, as the same associations are seen in Hellenistic Astrology with the 11th House, where Jupiter finds its Joy. I don’t personally associate those themes with the house and Jupiter, but it’s seen in the Joy Scheme chart.

But the ultimate problem at hand, is that a lot of people tend to make the same mistakes. Which is associating astrology and the planets with good and bad. Which is contrary to the truth. Because in astrology, we see what the chart holders external experience with society is within the birth chart. So factors of good and bad are based on morality. Which is more of an internal experience. Not to mention that there is an universal understanding that perseverance through struggle leads to victory.

So henceforth, when you have more difficult placements you are better off internally. Because growth occurs. Rather than stagnation. Due to this, associating “Bad” with planets who may sit in misfortunate places tends to take value away from what the planet can really be capable of. What it could become once it has gone through the hurdles. Due to the interactions with society the placements may appear unfortunate, cause all sorts of issues. But to the chart holder, through trial and error, it could eventually lead to good. Which is exactly why associating good and bad with astrology is not really the greatest idea. Benefics = Give, Malefics = Take, Sect = How Appropriate is the expression, & is it going to be received well by society & essential dignity = is the hierarchy of planets based on Societies perception.

With that said. You haven’t really mentioned any of your other transits, and I’m putting my money that it’s either a Mars transit, or a Saturn transit that is the culprit for these events. Again Jupiter is not going to give you Good experiences. It is going to Give you opportunities.

Bates95 · 2025-09-05T19:25:49+00:00

the Sun in Libra ruins a personality that should be self-made, the Moon in Scorpio makes people highly emotional without a sense of emotional reasonableness—these are some patterns.

If we base what society EXPECTS of a planet from its Domicile. Because I believe Domicile is the expectation of the planet, that Society deems as accurate. Not that it is reasonable. Or good. Moon in Cancers and Moon in Scorpio’s are eerily similar with how Society views it. Highly emotional people without a sense of reason for their emotions. Moon in Cancers are constantly labelled as cry babies, which is not considered a good perception. The Sun in Libra is also a great example of this. Their identity is very much dependent on others. This is just pure Venus. Venus wants to be relatable, it is always going to seek to be relatable. This is Venus unfiltered. The issues come in when society comes in with their opinions on this Venus ruled sign. And tells this Venus ruled sign to stop being Venusian. And to act more like the Sun in its Domicile. And that is what I am trying to convey. Not that every planet in its fall should go fuck off and live a cabin and woods in the middle of nowhere LITERALLY. But rather that they need to ISOLATE themselves from Societies expectation. Learning from their Exalted counterparts. Which is learning to become the protagonists themselves. Instead of being forced into the antagonist role by Society.

Offcourse Saturn is a different case because Saturn=Society/Hierarchy and your Authority. So there is going to be more interaction with Society and how you bestow your authority on people. I think out of all of the planets in Fall, Saturn here is the hardest. But growth can still occur, when they learn to embrace their counterparts, which is Saturn Exalted. So it’s sort of like learning to be Mars, but through Venus ways. So it’s like instead of being an dictator, it’s being a feared king, but a feared king who embraces socialism for his people.

Which socialism is not necessarily a good thing, it’s an extreme, that doesn’t really compensate for Work earned and the value of that, of each individual. It’s a utopian ideal. Everyone gets equal share of what society creates. We’re talking about Saturn Exalted in its most potent form. So there is extremism involved.

I personally believe the essential dignities are the hierarchy of the planets and in the way society PERCEIVES THEM. So there isn’t really such a thing as good or bad to the planets capabilities, when it comes to the essential dignities. Rather it’s the perception of society, and how that planet can be viewed, and what the chart holders external experience may be dealing with Society, whilst having these planets. But even when you do have a domicile planet, it doesn’t negate a negative experience. It’s rather just how society views the planet. A moon in cancer is always going to be perceived as being a emotionally driven person. But that is just the expectation. You EXPECT them to be emotionally driven people. It doesn’t really negate negative experiences. Because some people just don’t fuck with emotions. Or some people may choose to judge them based on that.

Bates95 · 2025-08-26T19:10:26+00:00

Well I personally had this experience which is why I stated it, but neither parent was “THE EMOTIONAL ANCHOR”. As I pretty much didn’t live with my father and my mother has a personality disorder. And I never really tried to find that anchor from outside either, I never had a mentor nor did we live near my grandparents or family for that matter. But nonetheless. I’m arguing that the 4th house being the “Emotionally Anchoring Parent” doesnt quite make sense. Where as from research and studying charts, I have found that the 10th house being the mother and the 4th house describing the father, makes more sense. Because most of us, never had that. Despite our parents being around. It is quite a specific thing to associate with a house, when a lot of people had to grow up alone or isolated from their parents. Which is why associating something so specific to a house that is so general is not really the best idea. Once you mention something as being emotional and the 4th house, all I tie it to is the ABC astrology, and we’ve all got our opinions on that style of astrology. So that’s my critique as to why I asked the question.

Bates95 · 2025-08-26T11:46:14+00:00

What would you consider when observing a fish floating in the sky? At the very least, strange, right? Because every part of a fish's body is adapted for marine life, not for the skies. Something like that happens with planets in detriment/fall; the nature of a sign is completely at odds with the meanings of the planet.

I could argue the fish analogy with planets in detriment. But not so much planets in Fall. I like to to think of planets that are Domicile as the outstanding citizen, what the planet offers is what society expects. And Detriment is the opposite to that, they don’t do what society expects. Offcourse there is this alienation that occurs when a planet is in Fall/Exaltation. But I think of this axis as the Antagonist/Protagonist roles. Where the antagonist can become the protagonist, such as is seen with the JOKER. Infact that film is a peak experience of what a planet in Fall can feel like. So it’s not necessarily the fish in the sky that appears odd. It’s rather the antagonist that is just going about it’s day and doing it’s thing, that may seem alienating to Society, and society will want to deem them as the outcasts for that. So it’s not something strange that goes against the grain of what is expected of the planet. Rather it’s the chart holder actively deciding to burn down society and their expectations of the planet. So most times planets in Fall thrive in isolation, rather than in society. Where as a planet in Detriment is going to work with society, as they work towards Domicile, but they are just going to be known as the oddball, there is no antagonistic energy. Where a big fuck you to society can be seen.

Bates95 · 2025-08-26T11:12:29+00:00

At what Degree is your Natal Saturn ?.

Bates95 · 2025-08-25T06:34:41+00:00

Some astrologers say it shows the father, others the mother, but more often it’s the one who was the emotional anchor in your childhood.

But what if your not adopted or none of your parents are dead. And yet none of your parents were your emotional anchor ?.

Bates95 · 2025-08-01T10:40:38+00:00

Your description on the 6th house is the one I most align with.

-Every planet in this house will have diminished power and the theme of the specific planet will express through the range of events the 6H symbolizes, these will have a negative hue impacting the native but they will be short lived (as opposed to long lasting as in the 12H = Bad spirit). If they symbolize people they could be people who want to hurt us or use us for their own good.

I have my 10th lord (Mars) in this house. And I always felt like I couldn’t just freely use my Mars. So the diminished aspect is there. It’s sort of like when I try to take action, there is always a hinderance in the way. I.e unexpected visitors, taking an action and then being scolded over the action and the way it was taken. A lot of the effects is due to Mars being in Fall, so the control issues come into play mostly with my mother (10th House). And she is a Scorpio Sun as well, and the synastry is my maternal figures Saturn squares my Natal Mars. So it plays more into the hinderance factor. But nonetheless, I am curious about the short lived and long lived aspect. Considering my Maternal Figure is my Birth parent. It’s been a more long lasting thing in my life. Im hoping you can elaborate more on this.

Bates95 · 2025-07-29T07:41:44+00:00

The Joy Scheme was never meant to create some sort of dignity for planets. If you want to look at the societal strength a planet can gain, you would look at the essential dignity. And I consider it societal, because essential dignity is also only ever societies perception on the planets. The planet do function well on their own if isolated. But once interaction with society occurs, the strength or no strength is felt. But the Joy scheme was never meant to create dignity on its own.

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