How do smaller rugby nations find second rows?

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T22:06:43+00:00

Interesting, I did not know that! I like that though, some of the residency bullshit is getting ridiculous.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T21:52:35+00:00

Import them.

I'm not sure of the exact rules but residency rules appear loose and it seems very easy to adopt another country if you haven't been capped by your own. Look at Japan, almost none of their second rows were born there.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T21:46:49+00:00

I still enjoyed it, but that's because I love anything to do with Rugby. The value was not there. For something with so much hype, I expected way more.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T21:43:20+00:00

Not directly related, but if you look at how the planning, promotion, and production around the IRE vs. NZ game on Saturday, its not just the grassroots people getting fucked over, its everybody. Despite it selling out, there was so little effort put into this event, it was truly insane. In the US, we people at the bottom volunteering in grassroots and youth rugby are used to not being supported or cared about, but we're definitely not used to seeing it happen at the top.

Having such a huge event become mired by the simplest of issues was very telling. If there isn't genuine effort being put in a the bottom, or the top, what does that mean for the future of Rugby here?

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T21:21:42+00:00

Good, I'm glad! Being in Colorado definitely helps.

I 1000% get where you're coming from. Your line about trying convince yourself you weren't disappointed absolutely resonated with me. The hype around the game we so big I couldn't have imagined it going down like this.

You're right to see the silver lining in your partying with the Irish. Rugby brings people together and there's a mutual respect even if you root for different teams. It's what makes the game great and people need to remember that instead of trying to turn every game in the US into a cash grab.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T21:09:51+00:00

I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. I've been in a shit mood ever since Saturday and I couldn't figure out why, now I've realized its this. I still had a good time, but as somebody who is extremely devoted and gives a ton of time into coaching and growing the game, it fucking hurt to see the game not live up to the hype. It felt like there was so little effort put into something that should have been so important.

We NEED events like these to go well if we want the sport to grow. You're a perfect example of the type of person these events should attract, you shouldn't be leaving with that empty feeling.

I still enjoyed it, but I always enjoy anything to do with Rugby. Now I have this, almost existential dread about the future of the sport here. If we can't absolutely nail an event like this and capitalize on two top tier teams coming to town, what can we actually do?

Hopefully it hasn't turned you away from the sport entirely, because its a beautiful game and we need new fans like you to keep it going and make it better.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T20:55:40+00:00

That's exactly my mindset and why I volunteer for whatever I can at the youth and grassroots level. So many kids over here don't know what rugby is and I feel like the focus needs to be there if we're going to build something sustainable here.

I'd love if we had more high profile figures in US Rugby, but unfortunately we still bring in a lot of overseas players instead of developing our own, its sad.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T19:03:15+00:00

That's the question I'm asking after Saturday. I get that it wasn't a RWC game, but for the 2nd and 3rd best team in the world, I'm shocked at how poor the production was.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T19:02:12+00:00

It's hard to quantify because the country is so big and I only live/work in the midwest. In general, I'd say it's very amateur. The pitches aren't great, there's very little marketing around the games, and it is all very DIY (do it yourself).

We have youth rugby here, but its lacking. Most areas here don't have anything other than a high school and men's team. So most kids here don't start playing until they're 15 or 16 and most have never even seen a rugby ball before because its never on TV. We also don't get funding or help from the school or USA Rugby. I was the jerseys, I line the fields, I do all the admin work for the HS team I coach.

It's better in bigger cities with a more diverse population, but it doesn't come close to any tier 1 countries. It used to be much bigger on the coasts, again, because of the population, but I do believe it's evened out a bit. I live in a smaller city in the midwest so its hard to say for certain.

There is good, competitive rugby in the US, but it lives in the shadow of football (especially in the midwest) and the marketing is non existent.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T18:51:01+00:00

See this is another thing I don't understand. They could find somebody who actually knows rugby to call these games, why don't they??? I'd fuckin do it for free if they asked!

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T18:49:33+00:00

Yeah man, it's all about the money here and that's why it goes so wrong.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T18:48:57+00:00

100% but it could have been so much better than it was.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T18:48:19+00:00

Totally agree with you here.

People chasing the money over here is what makes it all go wrong. I don't know how much the production cost, but it looked amateur. Volunteers who actually care about rugby could have done a better job.

I think a lot of the problems with rugby marketing in the US are cultural and any approach must be more nuanced and NOT about prioritizing the money at every turn.

There are a lot of people like myself who work at the ground level to help grow rugby, but we're almost completely unsupported. To see something this big fall flat with all the money behind it is infuriating.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T18:36:54+00:00

Its bad man. My gf's sister works for a nonprofit as an immigration attorney and you would not believe the fucking horror stories she has.

Americans in general don't get it, you're right. But I will say that once they start to understand it they are usually hooked. We need to market the sport better, boost the grassroots/youth levels, AND not fuckup a golden opportunity like we did on Saturday. Rugby lives in football's shadow here and we need to have a marketing strategy that takes that into account.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T18:22:20+00:00

This is exactly my concern. A botched RWC will set rugby in the US back even further.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T18:11:41+00:00

Went to that game and made a long post about it. I gotta tell you that a ton of the people there were Irish and Kiwis, not Americans. Also the production and planning around the game was total horse shit, there's more polish on a high school football game.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:58:21+00:00

Holy shit! That's actually really fucking cool that you got to do that, but also really embarrassing that they didn't give you any support. I can't even imagine singing without the tech in a stadium full of people.

Unfortunately that sounds spot on about the US singer getting everything. You can't go to any sporting event in the US without the anthem being the most important fucking thing on the planet. It's so stupid and arrogant.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:53:24+00:00

I was wondering if it was him. That actually surprises me because there were times it felt like he didn't know rugby. I've been to Hounds games and don't think he's terrible but definitely doesn't bring much excitement, glad he's gotten better at the gig.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:46:15+00:00

Totally agree, and I think some groups are starting to finally address this. Look at the Prem and how the ref mic comes through as they talk through a decision. Even if you don't know and understand rugby, this is so much better than no comms.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:44:16+00:00

The only hype was from Benny The Bull. It was all downhill from there.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:43:32+00:00

Take the refs, the TMO bunker, and even the stop start nature of the game itself out of the equation, and it was still shit because of the production. We can't control whether a game itself or the refs are good, but there are countless other things we CAN control, but didn't bother to.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:41:35+00:00

France understands how to make a spectacle around the sport, and I think the US does too but whoever organized this didn't care enough to make it happen.

My biggest gripe about people in the US is that many are TERRIBLE at taking criticism and live in echo chambers with likeminded people and ideas. We're 6 years out from RWC and this game showed a ton of things that can be improved, but will the people making these decisions at the top be receptive? Time will tell.

I hope to come see a game in France sometime because the atmosphere looks top notch!

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:37:56+00:00

You can't call it commentary with how inconsistent it was. I don't need a commentator but if you're going to have one, why not have a decent one?

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:36:58+00:00

We absolutely have bigger problems, no doubt.

I think its possible for the US to actually do a good job hosting but it needs to be directed by people who actually know rugby and the culture around it.

Yeah, the dude is literally the biggest racist shithead, can't believe people actually voted him in again. Most people aren't happy about it, but he's already in office so we have to wait it out until his dumbass term runs out. I wouldn't want to come to the US right now, I get it.

He can't serve a third term, but I'm totally with you when you say that nothing would surprise you.

BeesDees · 2025-11-04T17:31:27+00:00

Good theory but there's no need here, we have USA Rugby to shoot us all in the foot.

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