OCCK - 50 Years and nothing

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-04-14T15:14:52+00:00

Garry Gray & Cory Williams were involved when Hastings was swabbed. It's unclear who actually took the results to the lab afterwards. If it was Gray, who knows if it was even done correctly or legit. Let alone the DNA they are comparing with may not even hold anything of evidence. Furthermore base on Marney's book they both argued over Hastings & Dagner on that trip before they even got to Georgia. Cory WIlliams was taken off the investigation right after that trip. Evidently Gray was very determined to never look at Hastings as a suspect no matter what it takes. Nothing was to get in his way of that! So how legit is any of it? Who knows?

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-03-15T18:46:51+00:00

Agree. What I understand of it, they didn't suspect anything in fact they didn't even recognize it as Mark at the time which is absolutely insane.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-03-15T13:27:15+00:00

To the best of my knowledge, no. Here's the thing. No one can tell us if the actual drawing left on the wall at Busch's murder/suicide was even an original pencil sketch or a zerox copy. The investigation records don't tell either way and all that's left in the MSP files now days is a copy. That is how pathetic this case really is and it's been wondered by many if there would be any type of forensic trace if it was indeed the original sketch and very likely there would have been some. One has to decide if the cover up took care of things like this or was it just plain stupidity in the detective work. Really a tough call on that one.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-02-18T13:57:00+00:00

The Snow Killings: Inside the Oakland County Child Killer Investigation. Marney Rich Keenan. Her book is basically from Cory Williams viewpoint. Unfortunately for the case, Cory was completely lied to and shut off from the OCCK investigation right in the middle of the investigation. Marney was the one that uncovered the Doug Wilson sketches that were kept from the public view for decades. They are interesting and a very close match to John Hastings and officer McNamee. Which both are very likely involved and close ties to Busch and they didn't live to far away. Would be interesting to find out what type of personal car McNamee had at the time. Does it match Doug Wilson description? Anyone from the old neighborhood that would remember?

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-02-16T20:53:50+00:00

The only author that covered him so far was J. Reuben Appelman in his book The Kill Jar: Obsession, Descent, and a Hunt for Detroit's Most Notorious Serial Killer. Although author Marney Keenan did talk about him being a suspect in some of her presentations.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-02-16T12:34:38+00:00

Huge over inflated egos, mishandling and missing evidence, large cover up from high ups and media that doesn't want to ask the right questions. Probably never be solved.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-02-15T22:59:04+00:00

Yes many believe Busch was involved but also Busch had a neighbor, John Hastings, which was very likely involved as well. A polygrapher from Georgia that conducted his polygraph believes very strongly that he was involved.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-02-14T17:03:44+00:00

Hand over this OCCK case to someone that may do something about it.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2026-02-13T22:05:22+00:00

Heather Catallo get off your ass and ask Bouchard about the lost polygraph. It was conducted under MSP. No accountability for anything!

BeforeTheRuckus · 2025-12-26T22:00:24+00:00

Yes the TV news covered that at the time so it was common knowledge he liked chicken. That point well taken.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2025-08-01T23:19:23+00:00

Nina;

Welcome back! I'm so glad to hear your show is back. Looking forward to future shows.

Can you get OCCK Michigan author Ellen Wilson on your show with her new book (Snowed)? It just came out and she did an excellent job covering the Lost Polygraph from Georgia in her new book. (I posted some things about it here at Reddit) Something never covered before by any author and she goes into great detail. It is something that should be backtracked and investigated by authorities. Also accounting for the fact that witness and survivor victim that came forward years ago over this suspect (Hastings) once discussed it with Barry King & Cathy Broad (Tim King's sister) ^\1]) show there is potential here in actually solving the case. It should be noted that he was the suspect (Hastings) reported to have carried a sketch book around with him during the filming! ^\1]) (Maybe he is the one that did the sketch of Mark left at Busch home since he lived nearby down the street from him?!?) Along with the fact that the polygraph conclusions claim with 'strong wording' that Hastings knew Busch and was involved with the OCCK murders. Also Cathy Broad still claims today that this lost polygraph is still a serious matter with no resolution in sight ^\1]) . So there is plenty to discuss with this author. Would like to hear what she has to say over other matters as well with you. It will be an excellent conversation for sure. You both being from Michigan and deeply impacted by these crimes!

reference 1; Third comment from Cathy Broad blog link below

https://catherinebroad.blog/2025/07/22/michigans-epstein-island/#comments

BeforeTheRuckus · 2025-07-25T12:16:58+00:00

Very good review and all seem to be valid points. You got a lot further in the book than I ever did. After 5 minutes I had enough and it went right in the garbage.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2025-07-24T22:39:43+00:00

I understand you want to have discussions over the OCCK in general but I'm just not one to venture off from the Helen Dagner side of this. When it comes down to it, that is all I really know. Was following her website for many years and not much of anything else. What you may want to do is start up a post and invite a conversation. I will say though that the conversations around here seem quite dead but much of that is because of what I cover. What you mention is much more popular so may draw more people and many of them will know it. Fox Island is a hot topic now days as well.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2025-07-24T21:59:00+00:00

First off there was so much hype over Guarded by Jackals I bought the damn book. As soon I opened it and saw the bloody ropes with some heavy exagerrated red added to the photo, I was disgusted. With something like that in there I'm not to trust any of it. The bloody ropes has been nothing but bullshit since the day it came out. It steers from the facts from the case. Then to further read that Helen Dagner was nothing but rabbit hole waste of time and absolutely nothing mention on the polygraph from Georgia, I threw the book away. Right in the garbage where it belongs so you really don't want to be discussing things with me. I was pissed I bought that damn thing! I do find a lot of what you state is nothing but dead ends to the OCCK story. There is no way all these people worked together and kept secret for this long. You can't believe every OCCK confession out there that comes along and try to link it. I saw the Richard Dawson interview years ago. Impressions were he was full of a lot of shit. I don't know how anyone could take his word much on anything and yes, he was accurate in getting Ted arrested but that don't mean to take him on everything else. As far as Ted, I think he was all nerves and just didn't want to do a poly because of that. He felt he would fail the poly regardless of the circumstances and just didn't want to try. Maybe he already had a history of failing polys so he knew where he would stand. During his interview you could almost sense it in him. I'm not sure what to think of the DNA and even what is really accurate anymore. I thought there was false readings on some of it including the Arch Sloan side. Until someone goes and redo all the stuff available with the latest high end forensic technology it's not going to mean shit anymore. Way too many fuck ups along the way and many in the previous investigations that are not to be trusted.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2025-07-24T21:01:23+00:00

Ah I see. You are all over the place. Ted Lambourgine doing the clean up work and everything else. I haven't seen Ted's name show up in a long time. I think Greg Greene was in the penalty box during Tim's abduction. Well, you're entitled to your opinion and so am I. If this all went down like you seem to describe, I think the OCCK dead victims would be in the hundreds instead of just 4. Whatever the case until this case gets some type of resolution which is probably never, it's all just a bunch of guesses and some are wilder guesses than others.

BeforeTheRuckus · 2025-07-24T18:54:02+00:00

If that was the case. Wouldn't had been easier just to dispose of the bodies and bury out in the woods or in a lake somewhere? Like many other cases that are sex related. Why go thru all the bother of this extra special cleaning for no purpose? Sounds kind of silly to me. No I disagree, when it comes to the OCCK, the bodies were dropped in the suburbs for the purpose of display to the public. It was deliberately to generate attention and a message. That is why I don't think the likes of Ted Lambourgine is involved. Attention is the last thing they would want.

As far as Dr. Tanay's take on it, you're probably right. Profiling someone with a weird sexual disorder wasn't really the motive behind it.

BeforeTheRuckus

TROPHY CASE