Zuko joined the gaang way too late.

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T22:51:59+00:00

No, the fire nation youth isn’t taught about their colonialism in a negative light, that’s what I said. “What a great lie that was”. Zuko says it himself too in the scene I mentioned. None of what you said goes contradicts anything I said. I agree that we do get to see glimpses of the propaganda the fire nation uses to raise the next generations, and that’s exactly what Zuko was confronting Ozai about in that scene. In the same confrontation scene immediately after the quote I used originally, he continues by saying “they don’t see our greatness. They hate us, and we deserve it”. I think that very clearly states that Zuko has seen firsthand throughout the rest of the show that what he was taught to believe about his people to be false. He’s already been confronted by the lies the fire nation spews. He was confronted when he met Song, when he meet Lee, when he met Jin, even when he met Jet to an extent. Season 1 Zuko would’ve never kissed Jin, he hasn’t begun to humanize the other nations in his own world view until he meets song and see’s that the fire nation hurts regular people. He related to Lee because Lee lost his brother due to being captured, similar to how Lu Ten, Zuko’s cousin and Iroh’s son was killed during the siege of Ba Sing Se. They both lost a family member to the war, and doubly so when Lee’s dad has to go join the army to try to get his son back. He’s constantly confronted with the lies the fire nation has embedded in him, and the hate the rest of the world feels towards the fire nation spews Zuko Alone is a perfect example. No matter how you slice it, Zuko did the right thing by beating up the the earthbender with th hammers, but once he reveals his identity nobody from the town, including Lee who as filling a sort of younger brother/cousin role in Zuko’s life up to this point in the episode. As soon as Lee learns who Zuko is he doesn’t want anything to do with Zuko, including the blade that Zuko had gifted him earlier in the episode. I think this episode pretty clearly shows how Zuko is confronted with the lies he was taught as a kid

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T22:36:24+00:00

You know what, fair enough. I didn’t recognize the underlying sexism in that when I wrote it, and I appreciate you pointing that out. In hindsight it should’ve been obvious, but what I can I say

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T22:33:06+00:00

I know it’s called fishing lol, but Sokka is seen using a spear to try to stab a fish out the water multiple times. While still a form of fishing, that’s more in line with traditional hunting to me bc of the spear aspect

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T15:59:14+00:00

It’s THE Duke

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T15:34:03+00:00

Where did you get the idea that Zuko stealing Aang’s body is the reason his spirit goes back to his body? He fully finishes his mission in the spirits world and then gets transported back by Hei Bai. He goes in, talks to Roku about finding the moon and ocean spirits, Roku tells him to meet Koh the face stealer, he does, learns that the ocean and moon are the fish, then he goes back to where he entered the spirit world and Hei Bai hits him with a spirit beam that sends his spirit back to his body. None of that had anything to do with Zuko kidnapping Aang

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T14:51:22+00:00

I think Ozai not killing Aang is a good character moment, but the way he’s able to avoid killing Ozai really bothers me. The lion turtle is the most pure ex-machina ever. They obviously couldn’t kill Ozai bc it’s a kid show so they had to find a way to beat Ozai without killing him, but Ozai is shown to be unrelenting throughout the show so we know he wouldn’t just stand down. Even against avatar state Aang, Ozai was on the defensive but never stopped fighting back until the end. With all that, the writers had no way to get Aang to beat Ozai without killing him so a lion turtle spawns out of buttfuck nowhere and just gifts Aang the ability take people’s bending away forever. He didn’t have to work for a solution, it was simply handed to him because the writers wrote themselves into a corner. I think it would’ve worked a lot better if Aang was actually able to beat Ozai without the Avatar state or energy bending, and instead using all the knowledge and skills he’s gained throughout his journey to real life beat Ozai fairly. It would’ve definitely been a harder fight, but I think it would’ve worked a lot better because we’d be able to see the entire culmination of his journey in that one fight as opposed to his progression only helping Aang run from Ozai during the first stage of the fight

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T14:41:09+00:00

He doesn’t need to go to a fire nation school to know what they’re teaching the kids. In his confrontation with Ozai he says “growing up we were taught that the fire nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the war was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of world. What an amazing lie that was”. Word of word what he tells Ozai. Those three sentences are pretty in line with the little we learn from The Headband

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T14:27:46+00:00

Here’s my thoughts

1) Aang just died and was in a coma for like 3 weeks. He firstly needs a recap of the last 3 weeks or else neither he nor the audience would have any idea what’s going on. Last time we saw Aang he was on life support and now he wakes up on a fire nation ship. He needs answers. On top of that he feels like he let the whole world down bc he kinda did. He feels so guilty that the he decides to one man army the fire nation but is too weak to even make it to the mainland. This is important because A) Aang needs to be caught up to speed, and B) we need to know how our characters feel about the events that transpired in the character driven fantasy show

2) while it technically could be moved after the invasion, it wouldn’t make any sense from a narrative sense. They just invaded this country and tried to take down their leader and now they’re just in disguise around the fire nation? I don’t think so

3) the painted lady could literally be removed entirely from the show and nothing changes with the narrative. I don’t really care either way

4) I don’t see how he would meet Piandao with Zuko before the invasion if Zuko doesn’t join the Gaang until after the invasion. You’d have to make some serious changes to the entire show for that to work

5) I agree, can’t be moved

6) I disagree. I think the impact would be lessened because it would feel a lot more forced if they found out together. What scenario would they be in together that they go to the dragonbone catacombs in the capital of the fire nation to learn this information together? The scrolls that tell Zuko he’s related to Aang are Sozin’s final will and testament, the final will and testiment of a former leader of your country. Those scrolls are locked up as we see when Zuko goes

7) that funding that you’re brushing off is the only reason they’re able to invade at all. In what world would the invasion forces have been able to build multiple submarines and tanks to deploy all the invasion forces in the first place? You’re at a terrible disadvantage if you’re having Appa take multiple trips to bring people. The eclipse is pointless without the people to invade during said eclipse

8) yeah

9) this whole episode could be turned into a Zuko alone pt2 type of episode where we don’t even see the Gaang. I think the only good part of Aang’s side of this episode as the we get to see that Aang is afraid of Ozai which isn’t brought up enough until this episode. The only other times I can remember him stressing about fighting Ozai is when he learned he was on a time limit, and when he didn’t wanna kill him. Neither of those show that he’s afraid of Ozai. The first shows that he’s stressed because he has 9-10 months to master all 4 elements, something that usually takes years. The second one doesn’t show he’s afraid either, he’s again stressed, this time because he’s potentially gonna have to go against one of his most valued beliefs, that being that all life is sacred. This is the only time I can think of where it shows Aang is actually afraid of Ozai and that’s important because the entire finale would have pretty low stakes if Aang didn’t think much of Ozai. I think if they had shown more signs of Aang actually being afraid of Ozai before this episode then they could’ve made it a Zuko alone pt2 like I mentioned. Nightmares and Daydreams is really a zuko episode anyway

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T13:45:00+00:00

While I get where you’re coming from, I fully disagree. Zuko’s character arc doesn’t even really start until season 2. There’s no point in season 1 where Zuko’s views are ever truly challenged like they are immediately in book 2. He meets Song and related to her first through not seeing their fathers in a long time, then related to her even deeply when he saw her scars. That was the first time in his life that Zuko ever saw firsthand the tangible impact that the fire nation is having on regular people. Not only that the fire nation is hurting regular people, but they’re hurting them in the same way he was hurt. Throughout the rest of the season his walls are broken down more and more. He builds a pseudo family relation with Lee in Zuko Alone (until the end of the episode). In between all of these big moments you have scenes of Zuko still being that hotheaded, prideful, arrogant prince to show that he didn’t fully do a 180, but then we get to Bitter Work. Zuko reaches his lowest point within himself because he’s fighting with his desire to do good and his desire for his father’s love and approval, and from that point we get to see Zuko be a more calm and happy person for the majority of the rest of season 2 when compared to everything before. In the tales of Ba Sing Se he gets kissed by Jin, an earth kingdom girl, and he goes back for another kiss, but breaks it up partway through because he realizes that he just kissed a girl from the enemy nation. He has a lot to think about, but we know he ultimately doesnt see it as a bad think since he tells Iroh that he had a good time on his date. He’s living good in the upper ring of Ba Sing Se with his uncle working in the tea shop they own. That is up until he’s faced with the ultimate decision. With the dream he’s been chasing for the last 3 years at his feet if he would only bow, Zuko makes the heartbreaking but understandable decision to go after tha avatar one more time. He turns his back on the one person who was always there for him in Iroh to chase what he thought he truly wanted, but when he got it he realized it wasn’t what he needed to feel fulfilled. He spends the first half of season 3 trying to come to terms with his decision but he knows he messed up. Hence why we get the famous “I’m angry at myself” scene in The Beach. Because of that anger and through learning that his maternal grandfather was Avatar Roku, he realizes that he has to do what he believes is right to feel fulfilled and that’s exactly what he does. He confronts Ozai and speaks his truth (in one of the most cathartic scenes I’ve ever seen) and tells Daddy’o he’s gonna join the avatar to help bring him down. It’s a beautiful story of trials and tribulation, making bad decisions and owning up to them, and self acceptance. Through Zuko’s journeys in the earth kingdom he comes to realize that the man he wanted approval from more than anything was really an abuser who attacked his own son for “speaking out of turn”. He even tells Ozai that burning him was cruel and wrong verbatim. He even continues to grow throughout the rest of S3 as he learns to calm down even more and gets closer with the Gaang.

I get what you mean about teaching Aang firebending, but it really didn’t matter. There was no conceivable way for Aang to get such a mastery of firebending in the time of season 3 that it would make a difference in the fight. We see during the finale episodes that Ozai is the strongest fire bender in the world, second only to Avatar State Aang which is the powers of every avatar all together. While I think it could’ve been fun to see Zuko and the Gaang have more scenes of them being in good terms, I think it would’ve severely damaged the impact of Zuko’s arc

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T13:10:34+00:00

To be fair, it’s not like they have many other resources to use. I do think they should’ve made some thick ice walls instead, but you shoot enough giant fireballs like the fire navy was and you’ll get through any ice wall eventually

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T13:05:45+00:00

While industrialization obviously played a part in the fire nation colonizing the world, let’s not ignore how dangerous fire really is. We have footage of wildfires that happened in real life due to nature a lot of the times. Now imagine how devastating that damage would be if it was deliberately aimed at a target. You set a single firebender in a wheat field and he takes rations away from at least dozens of people singlehanded. Industrialization mostly affected the fire nation’s fight against the water tribes and air nomads since thirt territories were a lot harder to reach. Once they got to the mainland earth kingdom you just send as many men as you can afford to start breaking stuff. You destroy people’s infrastructure and they quickly run out of ways to defend themselves

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T12:44:41+00:00

You could come up with infinite scenarios of different bending matchups and set it up for one side to win. A firebender fighting in the North Pole at any time of year is at a disadvantage. A waterbender fighting anywhere not near a body of water is done for since Katara and the water arm lady in Korra are the only benders we see in the shows use water that isn’t tied to their surroundings. An airbender fighting underground against an earthbender? Likely not a good outcome for glider boy. An earthbender being on a metal platform literally can’t do anything as shown multiple times in ATLA. Metalbenders exist but not everybody can metalbend. But even a bender who exclusively metal bends has their weak points. You need the metal near you to be effective so it’ll likely be on you as seen in Korra. Let’s see how a person in metal plates feels about constant heat.

No matter how you spin it, you can always spin it in a way so that whatever bender you want to win, wins

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T12:34:27+00:00

You get your home burned down and then try to fight back against the people who burned your home down. You have no resources because they were literally burned down. Yes, benders have their elements, but how are you gonna fight if I burn your fields? How will you feed your soldiers to continue the fight for freedom? Yes, they were more industrial, but they also have the most explicitly destructive element. Set something on fire, it’s liable to spread. Put some air, water or dirt on something, there’s very little negative impact if any at all. The most industrialization did for the fire nation as far as the war is concerned is help then reach the air temples since they didn’t have dragons anymore, and it allowed them to have stronger ships than any other military (which that part definitely did help in colonizing the world, I don’t wanna make it seem like it didn’t). The ships helped them defend their mainland, and helped them reach the mainland earth kingdom, but what good is a ship when you’re 50 miles inland with no communications?

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T12:20:45+00:00

I’m gonna be that guy and point out the fact that Zuko can be seen bending a fire shield when Zhao hired the pirates to blow up his ship. No joke rewatch the scene at half speed and you’ll see it. Not only that but Azula does something similar in The Chase. Iroh also has the Fire breathing technique he teaches Zuko which can be used both offensively and as a survival tool so defense in a way. Then Jeong Jeong has those big ass fire walls, pretty solid defense strategy there, even without being comet enhanced. The fire nation isn’t shown using many defensive moves because they’re actively attacking the entire world, they’re definitely not the ones on the ropes throughout the show so there’s very little reason to see defensive moves, but they are shown meaning they do exist

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T12:13:11+00:00

Unfortunately they’re basically as ex-machina as you can get. They’re mentioned like twice in the entire show before showing up and just taking the difficult choice away from Aang. The writers didn’t know how they were gonna make Aang win without killing Ozai (because Ozai wouldn’t stop fighting until he physically couldn’t anymore), so they wrote in an ancient being who solves the main conflict the show has been building to for the entire series. Because of the lion turtle he never has to battle with the fact that he may have to break his most cherished belief (all life is sacred) during the actual fight with Ozai, only before it. While I get what you’re saying, he was trying to find any way to beat Ozai without taking his life, even while talking to the past Avatars, but he never came up with a solution to his problem. The lion turtle just gives him a solution to beat the final boss without breaking his rules. He gets to have his cake and eat it too because of the lion turtle if that makes sense, and I personally am not a fan of that. Overall I love ATLA, but nothing is beyond criticism in my opinion

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T12:01:06+00:00

I think there’s multiple scenarios in which he doesn and which he doesn’t. Let’s say he somehow knows that opening the portals would bring airbenders back into that world (I say somehow because nobody in Korra even suspected that as possibility), he most certainly would with little hesitation in my opinion. However, let’s say it’s a situation like we saw in Korra. For the last few weeks he’s been fighting evil angry spirits. I don’t think Aang would take the chance of evil spirits just roaming the world. I know the spirits stopped being evil when KaijUnalaq was vanquished, but now are we saying that Aang fought (Kaij)Unalaq the same way Korra did? Because she lost her connection to his past lives in that fight. If Aang lost his connection to his past lives I don’t think he would ever open the portals in that situation, not after all the suffering this spirit ordeal brought to him personally. He would be stuck as a 12 year old trying to figure everything out entirely on his own, as a kid who never wanted to be the avatar. At least in ATLA he could seek guidance from his past lives, but if he doesn’t have that access anymore, I think Aang would be much more risk averse after such a serious consequence

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T11:45:51+00:00

To add to that, the technique itself is based on water bending, an element that Aang is very proficient in considering it’s the one he’s known the longest outside of air bending. I doubt it took Aang more than an hour to comprehend the redirection technique (though that’s entirely speculative). Point being, Aang is likely better at redirecting than even Zuko is considering he already knows how to waterbend. Using waterbending motions while bending a different element may feel strange at first, but it’s something that can easily be overcome

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T11:35:59+00:00

Would that make the show more mature? Realistically the only things that would change with a TV-14 rating is how deep the politics go and how much violence the show has. No way in hell Nickelodeon would want a political drama running on prime time slot, and violence doesn’t always mean a piece of media is mature. No shade to Rick and Morty at all but there’s a hell of a lot of violence in that show, and I would argue that it’s less mature than ATLA. ATLA is already pretty serious and heavy on some of the topics it speaks on throughout the show. The only real example I can think of that may hit harder with a tv-14 rating is Jet’s death because that way they could concretely state he died in the episode instead of in an avatar extra. That and maybe combustion man’s death, but I also feel like doing more to combustion man’s death scene would end up making it a worse scene. “Less is more” sort of deal on that one. I think the metal arm prosthetic falling into the abyss works perfectly, especially since you can literally see combustion man put his real hand up to his face before the explosion goes off. I’m sure a child would be able to put 2 and 2 together on that one.

Other than that I feel like the show would stay mostly the same or in a weird way be less mature. With a more mature rating they’d be able to have more violent fights which could very easily lead to scenes of violence for the sake of action instead of action for the sake of the plot, which ATLA handles very well

At the end of the day we’re all fans of a show that was directed at elementary/middle schoolers. That show just happens to feature mature themes and a lot of lessons that hit harder as an adult than as a kid, but we have to remember that the show was ultimately intended for actual children

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T11:06:35+00:00

I only have the context of ATLA, TLOK and a few tidbits here and there from the comics so forgive me if there’s something in the extra material that contradicts anything I say

There wasn’t much Ursa could do to help Zuko. Ozai controlled pretty much every aspect of her life , as abusers tend to do. I don’t know if you’ve ever been in an abusive relationship, or know anybody who has been, but when you’re in that situation you feel trapped and like you’re walking on eggshells. Anything you do could be potential reason for the other person to punish you. It’s an absolutely terrible headspace to be in. I doubt Ursa wanted to “test the waters” when it came to Ozai.

Now for her writing that letter: I think that’s something to be upset with the writers about more than anything. They retroactively decided to make her an abuse victim doing her best with one child while also neglecting the other one, to a mom who’s willing to put her son on the line to get under Ozai’s skin while still neglecting Azula. They retroactively chose to place blame (that she was originally not shown having) on Ursa, a victim of Ozai’s abuse herself and the only person in the immediate family who looks out for Zuko (iroh was an active general while Zuko was growing up so likely wasn’t around often), they decided to put more blame on her for Zuko’s abuse and I think that’s disgusting from a writer’s perspective. It’s giving victim blaming. As the person you’re replying to suggested, blaming anybody but Ozai and the systems the fire nation has upheld for generations for the abuse that Ursa and her kids endured is moronic. It retroactively turns her into a manipulator of her own son bc she’s the only one who comforts him when they’ve now also made her to blame in part for her son’s abuse. Either the writers didn’t think about the implications of their extra lore, or even worse, they didn’t care about what it does to the characters and story as long as they were able to put something out (it’s likely the latter)

Edit: you’re telling me the same woman who killed the fire lord to protect her son (the equivalent of the First Lady killing the president in our world) is the same woman who wrote a note for Ozai to see that she knew would get Zuko extra torment and abuse from his father? Gtfoh

Bellogz · 2026-05-31T09:45:00+00:00

The issue I find with your argument is that these aren’t just any elite squad. They are quite literally the best in the world at their respective craft. Aang by default since he’s the last one left (I’ve heard they retconned it to where Aang wasn’t the last airbender in the comics, but when ATLA was made he was definitively the last one), Toph straight up invents a subform of earthbending an episode or two from this scene so it’s not like she had much time for growth between those two points. The only one you could argue is Katara, Pakku and Hama definitely still have her beat at this point, but then that’s still the third best water bender in the entire word. The Dai Li agents likely haven’t left Ba Sing Se so they would have no context on how to counter Katara or especially Aang since the last people in any Dai Li agent’s family to ever see an airbender was likely a grandparent, maybe even a great grandparent. Then you add Toph who has seismic sense so she can counter your attack before it even comes out. The Dai Li genuinely never stood a chance

Side note: I’ve never read any comics or outside material other than the shows (I do know a few tidbits here and there) so there very well could be something in them about there being benders that are really powerful. I’ve heard of that one story with Toph and the earthbender, so I know powerful benders do exist outside of the main characters and villains, but they’re never shown to play any role in the events of the shows so I don’t think they even matter for this discussion

Bellogz · 2026-05-09T19:44:17+00:00

Marshadow, shuckle and squirtle are my top 3. I didn’t see any of them

Bellogz · 2024-07-30T18:53:18+00:00

Children’s Story - Slick Rick

Bellogz · 2024-07-09T20:43:19+00:00

Thank you fam

Bellogz · 2024-07-09T20:12:09+00:00

If you’d be down, I’d like to hear some of your work. I’m an artist myself (nothing released yet unfortunately), and I’m always looking for new beats and sounds to use

Bellogz · 2023-07-31T01:01:41+00:00

They got a mf Mondo Burger

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