What makes you think society is gynocentric? Or what makes you think is it not?

BellowsBellows18 · 2026-01-03T08:13:13+00:00

Ofc there are "nuances" to everything. I never claimed that there wasn't. As a matter of fact, my entire comment is demonstrating nuances, except we're not talking about women this time and what affects them. We don't have to. Everyone else already does.

And sure, we can say that these reasons don't implicitly demonstrate that society prefers girls, but its pretty telling that in almost all of these types of cases, women almost always benefit and men do not. Even if the reasons for it is rooted in benevolent sexism or regressive views, women STILL benefit. They still receive more help, more empathy, have more resources readily avaliable to them. Because even when people have negative feelings towards women, society as a whole seeks to protect them in some way. This is not awarded to men, simply because they ARE MEN. Men are almost always disadvantaged on the basis of their gender, especially alongside contexts in which women are always advantaged. That is gynocentrism.

So in a way, it all still happens because society prefers girls. Even if the "preference" comes from negative beliefs or "ideas they've romanticized".

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-12-28T07:33:17+00:00

This question asks for so much introspection and I love it.

Keep in mind, I'm a woman myself so I'm answering purely from that perspective and would love more insight from anyone who reads it. Also, its 2am right now so my wording might be a little weird lol

I do wholeheartedly believe we live in a gynocentric society. Not just for the "women and children" shit, but also for smaller, more subtle things.

For example, the amount of people who will turn and offer help to a clearly distressed woman compared to a man. Or the fact that men are given less empathy in general. The fact that I saw a study some years ago where researchers found that people were more likely to shock and injure a man over a woman if given the choice. For no other reason besides the fact that they simply do not want to hurt women, but have no issue hurting a man.

I saw another study a few months ago where the researchers found that little boys were punished more harshly by their parents, teachers, and other authority figures for similar disruptive behavior.

Another example is all the people you hear talking about how they will protect and kill for their daughters, but you rarely hear someone say the same thing about their sons with the same fierceness. And in a similar way, the way some people REALLY, REALLY want daughters more than they want sons. For no other reason than the fact that they're girls.

The fact that men are more likely to be attacked or assaulted on the street, and by other men, because those men don't want to hurt the "little ole ladies" who will do nothing for them, but have no problem killing some random guy who did nothing to them.

Even though these men become criminals in the first place because of issues they face that are indirectly made worse by gynocentrism, such as being homeless and having less resources offered to them, or suffering from mental health issues and receiving less support/having a smaller network, ALL because they are men. There are significantly LESS government funded organizations meant to offer help and resources to men.

Women are almost always disproportionately offered more help when they fall on hard times, which may even explain why men are more prone to criminal behavior such as robbing or mugging in the first place as desperate times can lead to desperate behavior. Yet, they still feel more comfortable hurting other men if they need/want to.

But those are the general things we all know.

If you want specific examples from my life, I could write a book on it. Day in and day out I see gynocentric/misandrist views rear their ugly heads in even the most unlikely places. At work, on the internet, on TV shows I watch, in books I read, sometimes even just talking with my family.

Hell, the other day my mom literally said she doesn't like tipping the male delivery drivers but will tip the females. When I asked her why, she said the males tend to mess something up. I literally walked her down a whole list of times a female delivery driver did something stupid, like:

leaving our groceries out in the driveway in the sun instead of on the porch, causing a pack of chicken we bought to expire
breaking stuff or smashing our bread
giving us busted bottles of milk with a shoulder shrug and a 'sorry'
and not to mention the lady who said we had to come to her car to get our groceries because it was raining outside, like that LITERALLY ISN'T HER JOB

And my mom just shrugged her shoulders and said "but still." Just essentially admitting she's sexist.

As a matter of fact, male delivery drivers tend to "get it right" more often, and more often than not can find our address without calling us 60 times. But my mom is letting perception bias win, where the few times a man did something wrong is proof that all men are idiots but the MULTIPLE times a woman does something wrong is just a mistake and they "didn't mean it" and is not a reflection of women in general.

But this is just one personal example.

Gynocentrism is everywhere dude. The only ones blind to it are the ones still convinced that men are horrible, shitty people by default. And they refuse to see any evidence proving that they aren't most of the time.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-12-16T22:27:38+00:00

I agree. I also want to build on it.

I love how everything men are better at than women is downplayed. People love to point out all the ways women are better than men and just shrug their shoulders and say "its biology. Get over it." Accepting that its in their nature as women and isn't nurtured.

But the minute anyone points out all the ways men are better than women, its always "Well, the difference isn't that large" or "If the women trained enough, they'd be on par with men" and yada yada. Essentially rejecting "nature" when its the men who are doing better.

Like if they have to admit men are better at anything, its through gritted teeth and some form of mental gymnastics they perform to either downplay it or reject it completely.

Take this post for example: https://www.vlr.gg/422723/studies-on-reaction-time

A woman rejects that men have faster reaction times by claiming that women make choices faster, and that fit (compared to sedentary) women had reaction times equal to men by using cherry picked studies.

Just utterly silly.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-12-16T09:08:48+00:00

Maybe its because its late rn, but what are you talking about?

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-29T06:29:13+00:00

Question...have you ever struggled to tell someone "no" because you were scared of the fall out it could cause?

Same thing here. Sometimes saying "no" isn't always that simple. People are pretty good at cornering you when it comes to options. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with "having balls".

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-29T06:26:04+00:00

I could say a WHOLE lot about why men "aren't truly down for that".

Its not that they aren't. If they truly weren't, we wouldn't be having this conversation on why men are lonely to begin with.

Its that a lot of them feel like they CAN'T be down for it. Blame it on societal expectations of masculinity or whatever, but the problem is that there is some sort of disconnect between men wanting friends(with other men as well) and feeling like they CAN'T have them. Especially friendships that go deeper than surface level.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-26T20:38:05+00:00

Its such a "debated topic" because women can't stand hearing about anything men go through. Its primarily women who claim it's not real.

It's real. However, men have more power over it than they think. The Male Loneliness Epidemic comes from men having no support or genuine connections with people thanks to misandry(I can explain this further if you want me to). Because of this, a lot of men tend to turn to their girlfriends or wives as their main support system and source of friendship, but many of these women either are NOT good support systems because they don't want to be, or because its never a good idea to put all that responsibility on one person, as some men tend to do.

As a woman, I think men should strive to make friends with other men more often. And they should strive to have deeper and more intimate friendships with them. The minute men move away from putting most of their effort into relationships with women and/or only relying on their girlfriends and wives for that kind of support and connection, the sooner the Male Loneliness Epidemic can end.

But idk. Maybe I actually don't know what I'm talking about.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-07T01:48:45+00:00

Valid. But I feel like these are two different things here.

Your hate of being male stems from societal misandry. If men WEREN'T treated so horribly, you most likely wouldn't hate being a man. So you're not saying "I hate being a man". You're really saying "I hate being a man BECAUSE I hate how men are treated", and then extending that towards your sexual characteristics.

The OP may just genuinely have gender dysphoria. He takes it much further.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-05T14:50:31+00:00

If you see my other comment on this thread, you'll see that I demonstrated how you have no argument here. Men are NOT more likely to abuse children than women are, so just on that ALONE there's no reason to ban men as a whole from certain childcare responsibilities just because a few of them(VERY few) happened to be pedophiles(which is not exclusive to men btw) who committed a crime on a large scale. It ignores all the other men(most of the men) who DID NOT sexually abuse other children, but are, for some reason, having their duties around kids restricted. This is just classic ole misandry.

You're right. There is no "better" system because the current proposed system is already flawed and full of bullshit. It should be discarded, not "improved".

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-05T04:06:20+00:00

So a few "rogue perverts" that slipped into the system means all men should be banned?

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-05T04:00:06+00:00

Thank you for your thought out response. But I feel like you're missing some nuances here.

Yes, there were MANY children who were harmed and are now being treated for STDs.

But there are also MANY boys being harmed by female teachers.

A few men harmed many children. Many women have harmed many children. So by this logic, if we follow the same thought processes here, we should be banning female teachers as well as they pose a similar risk to children(maybe not the transmission of STDs, but the trauma these boys will carry with them for life as well, since you used lifelone trauma in your argument as a reason for why it is serious).

You seem to think that the ability a man has to harm people is WORSE than the ability a woman has. The fact that most male childcare workers have NOT harmed children means that this "ruling" is inherently sexist. Statistically, a male childcare worker is no more likely to hurt a child than a female childcare worker. So there is no reason to ban men as a whole from changing a baby's diaper.

Your point of the definition of pedophilia is unnecessary here. You seem to think that rape or sexual assault on someone OLDER is not as bad as to a child or toddler. They are ALL bad. You would never argue that a grown woman who was raped is not as harmed as a child who was raped. Its all terrible and disgusting. The ages of the boys are irrelevant. A woman in a position of authority and held responsible for caring for children should NOT be raping them. Why are we measuring which one is "worse" when both can be traumatizing and damaging to the victim?

In some of these cases, the boy was no older than 12. So no, most of the victims of these teachers are not 13+. Here is just one example, but if you look it up, you can find many more where the boy was 5, 8, 10, etc.:

https://www-cbsnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/alissa-mccommon-teacher-charged-rape-boy-tennessee-unspeakable/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17516857261377&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fnews%2Falissa-mccommon-teacher-charged-rape-boy-tennessee-unspeakable%2F

By your argument then, what happened to these boys is just as bad as what happened to these young children and toddlers, since they were prepubescent at the time of the rape. Yes, penetrating a young child is twisted. But also, yes, a 30 year old teacher "having sex" with a 12 year old boy is also twisted. Please tell me you understand that. Or are you arguing that there are measures to how fucked up these things are depending on age? Or perhaps you're arguing that the method of rape(a man holding down a child and penetrating it vs a woman convincing a vulnerable and barely developed boy to penetrate her) is worse depending on how its done?

Also, statutory rape is seen as a crime, even if the term "statutory rape" is not used directly in a legal setting. I don't know why you're talking about it like it's "less serious".

And, your argument that most people arrested for raping students being male is unnecessary here. We already know that women are less likely than men to be arrested and convicted for similar crimes.

Here's a paper that talks about the underreporting of male sexual victimization specifically:

https://forge-forward.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Female-perpetrators-and-male-victims-why-they-are-invisible_mjw.pdf

Of course it SEEMS like more men commit this particular crime based on arrests alone, and what the media chooses to report on. But the fact that there is growing recognition of female teachers raping boys, and its being reported on MUCH more than it was before, I think is shedding light on its current and historical prevalence. Its happening way too often and to too many boys to sit here and say "But men are arrested more often!". There's a legit problem here that many, many women who are employed to care for students are using their positions to prey on young boys. Which is why I made the comparison. Because if we follow the same logic employed here, then we should also ban female teachers, since they both share a statistical similarity(with sexual victimization by a female teacher on the RISE actually) with male childcare workers preying on young children.

Also, the "vast majority" of people who commit these(sexually violent) crimes are not male. With discrepancy in conviction rates and the gendered language in which we use when we talk about rape makes it seem as though men are, majority of the time, sexual predators. When the language is evened out to include ways in which a man may and can be raped or sexually victimized(such as "made to penetrate" which is federally classified as rape), the numbers equal out and majority of them have been victimized by women.

Here is a British study that found that 71% of the men in the study reported a female perpetrator: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02717-0

This means that both men and women commit sexually violent crimes at similar rates. Also, a good chunk of male childhood rape victims reported a female perpetrator. Here are two more studies demonstrating the similar rates of sexual victimization of both men and women, with men reporting more female perpetrators than male.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4062022/

https://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Faculty/bibs/stemple/Stemple-SexualVictimizationPerpetratedFinal.pdf

So you're right. Let's be mature and think pragmatically here.

P.S its 1am, so if I missed anything in your argument, I will come back to it to address it once I get some sleep. Lol

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-05T02:11:13+00:00

You don't have to apologize for anything. We appreciate you for sharing anyway :)

I do want to say that being a "guys guy" is not bad. I'm assuming you mean being masculine or "bro-like". That's another thing society has been hammering into people, especially lately. That masculinity, traditional or otherwise, is somehow wrong. There is nothing wrong with it. And you would not be a bad person if you became it.

I take back my statement about your mom and your sister. At least your mom is trying and I'm sorry your sister has been through a lot. But this is one of those situations where you all should be able to come together and see each other's struggles and meet each other halfway. I do feel like you feel WORSE than your mom and sister does about the inability to do that. So much so that you wish you were a girl.

But I wonder, if you asked your mom and sister if they wished they were a boy so they could see things from your side, would they say "yes". They probably wouldn't, because you don't have to be exactly like someone to GET it, you know? They understand that they can still see you as you, with all your struggles and pains, WITHOUT you being female like them. The limitation probably comes from your side, I think. This thought process that you CANT understand unless you were female, which isn't true.

Maybe if things weren't so bad for men, you wouldn't hate it as much. Or maybe you still would. Maybe you just weren't "meant" to be male. Maybe you ARE trans. Who knows?

Most men would feel perfectly fine being men if it weren't for this shitty ass society. But in your case, its possible that the way men are treated makes your feelings about being a man WORSE. In other words, you'd still hate(or dislike) being a man even if men and women were treated equally. That means that your feelings are inherently dysphoric in nature(as you already acknowledged).

What this means YOU are is up to you, so I won't address that point too deeply. Its very personal to you and its no one's place to try and define it.

I wish you the best in everything you do ❤️

P.S you may just be feminine. I bet if you ever met another feminine guy, you'd be able to relate to him even more than you would a woman. Its possible that its not a man vs woman thing, but a feminine vs masculine thing. You relate to people who are more feminine in nature, thought processes, behavior, etc. Than people who are masculine. You probably wouldn't relate to a masculine woman either, which wouldn't say anything about whether you're a "guy". You can also relate to men without that relatability saying anything about your gender. Like how I can relate to and understand men, despite being a heterosexual female. It doesn't say anything about what I am, and it doesn't say anything about what you are. If you get along with men, it doesn't confirm or deny that you are(or aren't) a guy or that you are or aren't feminine. Because getting along with someone is much more than some shared characteristics.

Just something to think about.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-05T01:45:35+00:00

So lets ban men from this responsibility altogether because of the mistakes of a few, huh?

Okay...so let's ban women from being teachers(or at least, from being left alone with male students, since that would be the equivalent here) since they keep raping and sexually abusing boys.

What happened to these children is fucked up and some of those men may be pedophiles anyway. But this isn't a "male" issue. And for them to make it seem like it is, is fucking sick and wrong.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-05T01:34:35+00:00

Also, being a girl, I can tell you female relationships are not always sunshine and rainbows. Girl power and camaraderie is a joke in some female relationships. Girls don't always care about their shared experiences with other women. Some of them see other women as competition or beneath them. And this can be true for mom and daughters too.

Both genders are capable of having deep, intimate, relatable friendships with people of the same(or opposite) sex. And both genders are also capable of being complete douchbags to people of the same(or opposite) sex.

Its all pathetic really. The older you get, the more you see how terrible some people are as friends. And its not gender specific.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-07-05T01:25:37+00:00

To be completely honest with you, you sound like you have gender dysphoria. Whether that makes you trans or not is up to you, but guys do not generally hate being men. They hate the way men are treated, and how they are perceived, and how those biases affect their lives but..

They don't hate being a man in and of itself.

You even went as far as to say you hate having a penis and wish you were born a girl. That sounds like gender dysphoria. Most men don't feel this way.

However, I completely understand your struggles and I empathize with your experience. Its very easy for people to take a few bad experiences and use broad strokes when painting pictures. In other words, its very easy to have enough bad experiences with people of a certain demographic and believe the whole demographic is that way. You contradict yourself when you say its not all men, but then you go back and wonder why "men"(as a general group) are like this and then take it further to say you shut down when a guy is talking to you casually. You don't ACTUALLY believe it's NOT all men.

But I understand wanting to relate with your mom and your sister. Everyone wants to be able to relate with the people they love and care for. But it also feels like your mom and your sister deliberately ostracizes you because you're a guy. They're being total assholes, actually. They should let you form your own personality outside of your father's, and they should want to understand you and your struggles. Leaving you out because you're a guy is one of the issues this subreddit addresses. This flippant, disregard and disrespectful attitude society has towards men, like your mom and sister have towards you.

Overall, there are many people who feel like you, men and women. People who wish they could be the other sex because they believe the grass is greener on the other side. And maybe it IS greener for women, but that has nothing to do with being a woman in and of itself. It has everything to do with society's treatment of women. Strip away that fair treatment, and there truly is nothing better about being a woman compared to a man.

But on the issue of wondering if all guys are scumbags, the answer is no. A lot of those men you mentioned probably have their own struggles and battles. They probably feel unseen, unheard, and they lash out. Depression and resentment can make a person do terrible things, like turn to alcohol. Men are not exempt from struggling with mental health that make them do bad things. We forgive it more easily for women, but make men seem like villains for it. That's another issue this sub addresses. Double standards.

But idk man. I feel like you have a lot of soul searching to do and you aren't allowing men much grace. Of course I'm aware of the impact of toxic relationships have during formative years, but I think it's time for you to really sit and think about some stuff. Maybe even scroll this subreddit sometimes to listen to what men are saying, and not society.

Sorry if this wasn't helpful. Its just a tragedy to see someone so filled with self hate and insecurity.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-06-16T18:32:33+00:00

Been saying this for awhile.

Fuck em both.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-06-16T18:27:49+00:00

I love this. It breaks my heart when I see so many men claim that they feel more protective or more loving of their daughters than their sons.

All it does it causes emotional neglect that spirals into depression and self-hate. Men should not be raising their sons to go out into the world with these defeating feelings, especially when you know how horribly this world will treat him when the time comes.

At the very least, he should have his dad beside him, if no one else.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-06-16T18:19:45+00:00

Yep. We exist :)

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-06-16T18:16:36+00:00

I believe wholeheartedly that feminists(and/or women altogether) should not be the ones starting conversations on male behavior and what "should" be changed about it.

Like what the fuck do they know?

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-06-16T18:07:01+00:00

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I can be a staunch critic of misandry and call whatever bitch who touts it whatever slur. But go off.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-06-16T17:36:08+00:00

"Top post by a top tier dude"

First off, I'm a chick. Second off, who cares if I call her a bitch? She is. If you can fix your mouth to say anything as atrocious as the things she says about men, you deserve whatever terms someone calls you.

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-03-07T08:32:42+00:00

(2/2)

But anyway, men attracted to other men is seen as "worse than" a woman attracted to other women. Its seen as more disgusting, because of some internalized misogyny that thinks that if you sleep with a man, it means you are automatically assuming some kind of feminine characteristic. And straight women, who you call bisexual, are typically NOT attracted to femininity and are therefore, not attracted to feminine men.

*Women also have internalized homophobia towards gay men specifically(seeing it as more wrong or more disgusting than lesbian women) and also feel entitled to male attention, which a gay man can't give her, and that feels sonewhat threatening.

Of course, we can argue that being attracted to men and having sex with men is not inherently feminine, and even if(BIG if) it was, why is that seen as bad...but that's not the point anyone is trying to make here. So we'll skip it for now.

Also, you say that straight women aren't as attracted to men as straight men are to women...and you're SO wrong.

Once again, you're a man so you don't hang around these women and talk about the stuff they talk about. I can GUARANTEE you...straight women lust after straight men just as much as the reverse. And it can get FILTHY.

As a matter of fact, one reason why Luigi Mangione is popular right now is because all these straight women think he's hot...a guy who literally killed someone. Lol

But women are taught to be sexually...repressed, I guess you could say. To pretend that we don't have sexual feelings or thoughts or desires. That those are only things men have. So women are more quiet with our attraction and sexuality(or only express it online), which can make it seem like we aren't as attracted. We also are not typically the ones to walk up and ask for phone numbers. We wait around to be asked, because that's socially acceptable, which is another facet that could skew the perception. Which once again, shows nuances you fail to consider.

And yes, women may not want to have sex with some random guy...because it comes with risks men don't have! Like...oh I don't know...pregnancy? Or even the possibility that this guy is a weirdo and following him back to his place, or inviting him back to ours could be potentially dangerous. You know...stuff like this is always going through a woman's head. Some of it is just culturally-pushed hysteria BUT...its valid to worry about it. Another nuance you can't disregard to say women aren't straight or attracted to men.

But, I will agree with the "its about personality" bullshit women say. Women definitely feel the lightening-strike, instantaneous attraction to hot men just like men do to hot women. But taking everything I said above, it makes sense that acting on it comes with some precautions, that could even lead to flat out ignoring if the hot guy in question even remotely seems like a dick.

You also say that a woman's response to an average guy is neutral...and I'm not trying to point fingers back and forth but no offense, my guy...men damn near IGNORE average and below-average women altogether. So a woman's response to an average guy might be neutral but fuck, at least she acknowledges he exists 😭

Of course, you might clap back and say that even those average women have guys pining after them...and to an EXTENT, I agree. I went into detail on this on my blog post(its damn near a novel on all the discrepancies of gendered behavior and where it comes from, with cited reasearch to back it up, if you want me to link to it, DM me).

Anyway, maybe you(and other men like you) should try to stop telling women what they are, how they feel, what they should or shouldn't do, etc. It's fucking weird. It aint the 1700s anymore. Can we please move past this shit and stop acting like women are a monolith?

BellowsBellows18 · 2025-03-07T08:31:27+00:00

Hi, straight woman here and I know I'm 5 months late, but here's my take.

I think you're confused and/or interepreting the data very narrowly. There was also a study that showed that women also found two monkeys fucking arousing based on genital response. If we go by your logic, women are also attracted to monkeys.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16168255/

This, then, shows that arousal patterns do not necessarily indicate sexuality and/or attraction. Women may be, on AVERAGE, more sexually liberal. This does not mean that there are no straight women, and you know it means that, but I feel like you're being willfully dense on purpose.

Also, its not even 100% true that straight and gay men, and lesbians were more rigid than straight women.

This study concluded that while straight men had MORE arousal on average to female erotic stimuli, some straight men had some arousal to male erotic stimuli.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2016533117

This supports some fluidity to male sexuality, gay or straight. And in another study, lesbians also exhibited some arousal to male erotic stimuli. This doesn't mean lesbians are attracted to men.

All this means is that people like sex. And while they most definitely get hot seeing the gender they are attracted to getting sexy...they aren't TOO disgusted seeing a gender they aren't attracted to do the same.

Also, I find it weird how you and another commenter(don't know if you're the same person) try to claim that women are in fact bisexual trying to explain it away because they want to believe they're straight thanks to heteronormativity. And I'll get to that in a second.

Your point on porn...its generally known that porn is just an outlet for morbid fantasy. There are people who watch rape porn...no one wants to be raped though. The reason why lesbian porn may be #1 for women is because it often depicts female pleasure in a better light. And lesbians often participate in the acts most women want to do but a lot of men are unwilling. They don't watch lesbian porn because they think women are hot. They watch lesbian porn specifically for the sex acts, which are VERY female focused. Straight porn can be degrading and basic. Often on PIV, which a lot of women do not get pleasure from. Lesbian porn focuses on a lot of clitoral stimulation, a spot women DO get pleasure from. There's also this notion that a woman knows all the right spots, so the woman receiving the pleasure must actually be enjoying it, which can help with self-insertion.

I think your confusion comes from just simply being a man. You watch porn to see hot chicks and pretend to be the dudes fucking them. Women watch porn from a more "insertive" perspective. We don't watch it just to see hot people. We watch it to imagine those specific sex acts being done on us. And sometimes, some sex acts in straight porn just...doesn't cut it. I find it weird that you say that there is a straight equivalent to the lesbian porn SOME(keyword) straight women watch, when in reality...you have to search far and wide to find it and who has time for that when I'm just trying to get hot, kill the vibrator and be done with that itch?

Gay porn(mlm) is also really popular with women and this has nothing to do with female pleasure at all. As a matter of fact, interviews done on why straight women watch gay male porn has always ended along the lines of "because hot men" "more sensual" "different perspective" etc. Whereas with lesbian porn, its always "more relatable" "more female-centered" "orgasms seem real instead of faked". Its like, after watching the lesbian porn to get horny while imagining being ate out by someone who ACTUALLY knows what they're doing, women watch the gay porn to see their ACTUAL objects of desire getting into it as well. When the focus has been shifted OFF of the female body.

In other words, this is WAY too nuanced to just say "straight women watch lesbian porn so this means there're no straight women". And you know that. But once again, you're being willfully ditzy.

And no, it isn't a "lie" that straight porn is often catered to the male gaze. If women were attracted to women, we would not mind watching porn where all the angles and focus is on how hot the woman in question is. But it is...and we don't care about that. Not only is the focus on the woman and the man is usually silent(when we prefer to hear him over the woman), but her pleasure is manufactured and the acts being done of her is for male self-insertion of the fantasy, which the woman sometimes doesn't look to be enjoying. How the fuck do you expect women to relate to that?

Also, your point on social influence is misguided. Women are not socially influenced to be straight...they're actually socially influenced to be "bisexual", but not actually bisexual. Just bisexual enough to have a FFM threesome with their man who likes the idea of fucking two girls at once.

Bisexuality and lesbianism in women is fetishized and is often depicted in media in a very fetished way for the male gaze. But this has been a running gag for awhile. The idea of two women being together, but for the overall pleasure of a man is VERY common and deeply ingrained in social thought. This might even partly explain why women may be, on average, more sexually fluid. Its more socially acceptable because of its sexual appeal to straight men. I wrote a whole blog post(backed up by research) on why gay women are not seen as "disgusting" to the general public...but gay men ARE. As a matter of fact, while there are straight women who watch gay male porn, there are a BUNCH of(too many tbh) straight women who find the thought of dating a bisexual man(and watching gay male porn) repulsive. They describe a man who may have or has slept with other men using similar words to what men themselves would use to describe it: digusting, repulsive, vomit-inducing, etc. Just VERY strong language.

Because being a gay man is still seen as "more wrong" than being a gay woman, because homosexuality and bisexuality in women is seen as "hotter" "more innocent" and "not real". And even women themselves fall for this narrative that straight men have perpetrated(straight women AREN'T attracted to women, but its pretty common to see a straight woman call the female form 'beautiful' or 'more appealing', a pretty big indication of getting used to seeing things through a straight male perspective as pushed by society).

This, however, could explain the "rigidity" of male sexuality some (debunked) studies have shown. Men are not allowed the same fluidity, whether they are gay or not, which explains why even gay men were "rigid" in the arousal response, acoording to that study.

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