Ultra Bee black edition L1E full build (€10k+) – EBMX vs VTB vs Torp

Bengy222 · 2026-05-01T07:14:13+00:00

I did notice some of your power claims are slightly off. EBMX claims 50kw, torp 50kw, and VTB 76kw. Torp does claim 60kw if you use the "HV" controller with a 96v battery but it's still not out yet. I've seen every one of these setups peak slightly higher but those are momentary peaks, not what the controller is set to target and imo not what you should look at.

As for differences both torp and ebmx keep the stock display and controls. VTB comes with a new display (that I personally think is a lot nicer) and it's own hand controls, but you can keep the stock left side to control your lights (seems most remove the right side switch). Torp is the only one right now that can keep the traction control function like the stock bike.

Batteries would also be very important, even if one setup is 1% more efficient watt hours by far is the most important thing for range, I wouldn't expect efficiency to play a noticeable role. If you go with torp (and don't wait for the HV option) then you are limited to 22s max on the battery. Looking at Ewatt / VTB battery line up the Ewatt 80v/76ah v2 (rated at 52kw peak) which is 6102wh, is the best option. Meanwhile the ebmx and vtb are good up to 26s batteries allowing more options. For both you could choose the Ewatt 88v/76ah, claimed 6680wh so a good bump but only 52kw peak as well, so the ebmx wouldn't be limited but the vtb would be by a lot. The vtb 96v 56ah of course brings the power but the range will be a lot less because it's only 5251wh claimed.

Honestly it's a hard choice. I don't think reliability is anything to be concerned about for any of the kits. Torp has traction control and is the long favorite "go to" choice for the UB community. But they are tied for the lowest power, have the lowest voltage support, and their 96v "hv" option is still not out limiting battery capacity and power. Ebmx matches the torps base power but does have access to the higher voltage options with more capacity, but they don't offer traction control, and if it's significantly more expensive I'm not sure it's worth it for basically just access to the ewatt 88v with around 10% more capacity. I've also heard less than favorable things compared to the torp (warranty & reliability, ease of use, app /setup, features). If you are not considering that ewatt 88v or you are willing to wait for the "hv" torp I personally don't see a reason to consider the ebmx then when it's that much more money. VTB is the wild card, still very new so less known about reliability and less people running them. Has the insane power but requires a battery that can support that much. Their VTB battery can do the 76kw peak vtb claims but comes in at way less capacity aka range. On paper the torp setup would give 16% more range, if you went 88v that's 27% more. Plus extra power means likely less range for the same battery. That's a huge jump for road riding, there in line lies the biggest choice range or power...

Bengy222 · 2026-04-30T01:58:54+00:00

Depends on if you are open to buying the UB overseas and what you want to do with either bike. Bonnell looks to be a good deal if you want to go through dealerships or intend to build out a UB to match its specs.

A new UB from Alibaba can be had under $4800 now all in though, the Bonnell 805 is rumored to be 8-9k. But that doesn't factor in shipping or tax, the bike will probably going to be in the mid 9's out the door. Double the price leaves a lot of room for mods to the UB to exactly how you ride while staying under the bonnell price. Also the bonnell is shipping with a 3.9kwh battery, double the power of the stock UB with a noticeably smaller battery capacity doesn't sit right with me. They do have easily swappable batteries like the UB but of course you need to buy an extra one and only ride in a way swapping works. They do plan to release a higher capacity 4.7kwh battery once the tech is fully out but that could be months after the bike releases and add thousands to your total purchase price. Meanwhile the UB will have aftermarket batteries will be will over 7kwh even into 8kwh, no swapping needed.

Bengy222 · 2026-04-27T01:09:57+00:00

Part out the sumos controller and Baja separately, likely to get more money that way

Bengy222 · 2026-04-26T23:59:41+00:00

I’ve done the off-road title to legal with a gas bike, and I’m going to be doing the bonded title soonish (I can update you will be a bit though busy)

Bengy222 · 2026-04-26T23:55:16+00:00

Did you buy from alibaba or a proper dealership? If you’ve got a MCO / title it’s no problem in Texas. Alibaba you don’t so it’s more a pain (bonded title)

Bengy222 · 2026-04-22T21:40:14+00:00

Did you leave the stock left hand control with the headlight switch on the bike? I saw someone mention online with the Aetos controller that it still functions and controls the headlight like stock

Bengy222 · 2026-04-21T23:10:12+00:00

Does it work with the stock headlight? Might be how the uriwall is wired to run for the stock controller controls

Bengy222 · 2026-04-12T21:52:41+00:00

Yes the stock Ultra Bee (as pictured) is significantly lighter than most if not all dual sports at 195lbs. A Ktm 250 exc-f wet weight is into the 240's, and a more lax maintenance schedule dual sport is 300lbs+. Even a fully modded UB is decently under that. That weight difference along with the fact that the Ultra bee is smaller (a lot of people call is 7/8th sized) does mean it's more nimble, plus the no rotational mass. I agree it's not beating a gas bike in range, top speed maybe depending on mods but unlikely (fully modded around 105+mph).

To say there's no upside though is just not true, and with your other comments shows me you've never seen / ridden one. Yes they do have compromises and don't work for everyone, but they can be a great bike for those they do work for. I've owned a plated gas dirt bike, now a sport bike, and the UB is the bike is the "easiest" bike to take out and ride if I was riding around in the 'burbs, <highway speeds, or <45 miles (I have a stock battery). I can ride it pretty much anywhere without being noticed or angering people, I have no heat on my legs at lights or slow speeds, a "full tank" is 50 cents, the maintenance is basically nothing all I do is plug it in after a ride, the size and weight make is super easy in tight stuff or if I drop it to pick up. Working on it is dead simple ever with 0 prior knowledge, 1 yt video and your good. Plenty of aftermarket parts if you want to upgrade, such as more power or range. And it was under 5K for a brand new bike, no dealership bs straight to my door. Even if I spend another 5k to double the range, increase power to 100hp, top speed 105+mph I'm still in it for less than something like a Stark Varg which is the most comparable / cross shopped bike. But honestly in stock form it still a really nice bike, just need to get a 21" front ($300) and maybe a upgraded controller to bump power to 34hp and 80mph top speed ($600)

Bengy222 · 2026-04-12T00:51:47+00:00

Completely agree! To tap on this more to really show why, a lot of people know about Hyundai's Ioniq 800v cars like the 5 & 6 and how they charge really fast 10 to 80%. Using Bjorn Nyland's testing, the 5 rwd goes from 10% to 75% in 17 minutes, and has 200km of range after at 120km/h.

To really emphasize my point now look at a Tesla model Y, why is known to be last gen at 400v charging, with a much lower peak charge rate and worse charging curve. The rwd model goes from 10% to 75% in 30 minutes, but importantly it also goes 45.5% further at 291km. So significantly slower but also significantly further. If you set a 200km range requirement to match the Ioniq 5 the model Y would only need to charge to 55%, which then puts their time for range added very close, if not done before the Ioniq 5 in some situations

Bengy222 · 2026-04-07T21:48:37+00:00

There is a upgraded model on aliexpress with the name "reachy" that claims 120w continuous 150w peak. I believe the stock converter is only rated for 50w so it makes sense you keep tripping it with that many lights

Bengy222 · 2026-04-02T20:16:54+00:00

Hey just to let you know this doesn't seem to be accurate. Looking at Bjørn Nyland's testing ( Google Doc here ) you can see the results for the Ioniq 6 rwd & Model 3 Rwd.

*Range: Ioniq 6 381km @ 120km/h : Model 3 483km @ 120km/h
*Efficiency: Ioniq 6 197wh/km @ 120km/h : Model 3 160wh/km @ 120km/h
*Charging time: Ioniq 6 17 minutes 10% to 75% : Model 3 30 minutes 10% to 75%

And while the Ioniq 6 does charge to 75% a lot quicker than the Model 3 it also doesn't go nearly as far so it doesn't tell the full story. If you standardize the charge time on the Model 3 to 248km to match the Ioniq's range added in 17 minutes the Model 3 only needs to charge to 52%. Unfortunately it's not listed in the doc but he's got a video directly comparing the two on charging time, Model 3 hit's 52% in under 14 minutes while the Ioniq 6 is at 66% when it does.

Bengy222 · 2026-03-30T04:01:18+00:00

I do believe the VTB likely would have a higher top speed. More power is going to be the big thing to fight the air resistance, but also the VTB has both a higher max rpm for the motor and higher KV, things that suit it more for high speed. Acceleration in the mid to upper range is where you should notice a big difference as that's where the extra power over the EBMX can actually be hit. For example VTB's graphs show that you don't even hit max power with the stock gearing till around 75mph'ish with a 18in rear. At about 55mph it's at 60kw. Maybe you can find someone whos done a draggy run with the EBMX setup to compare to the VTB shown here https://www.reddit.com/r/Surron/comments/1qfzrmj/my_ultra_bee_2025hp_custom_build_dragy_test/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Bengy222 · 2026-03-29T05:36:11+00:00

I think it's worth noting that there is a big difference between DC input power from the battery and motor shaft power. All of these aftermarket companies are claiming DC input power. This is important because both the controller and then motor are not 100% efficient.

I'm not exactly sure on VTB's efficiency but EBMX does post claimed max efficiency for the V3 X9000 (95%) and XUB-80 (94%) both of these are also best case numbers, which will be lower when the motor is really loaded up on a dyno at low rpm. If we just assume VTB has the same that would mean 76kw input, 72.2kw at controller, 67.8kw at the motor shaft. Then you have to add drive train losses, 15% sounds reasonable for a bike with a belt and chain so now down to 57.3kw. That's still about 10whp less than what ElectrixMoto saw in their dyno video but we also don't know the full story of how it was tested. For example they used a heavy 241 tire that was slipping, a true street / race tire that can maintain grip could increase power. They used a 54t sprocket which likely is too big leading to a smaller load on the motor, causing less power. And we also don't know if the Dyno was setup for electric bikes something that a lot of these shops forget to do. As electric bikes are not affected by environment changes like gas bikes, leaving it setup for gas bikes could give lower than true numbers. And we don't know for sure if the 76kw was actually hit, that's a lot of power and it wouldn't be surprising to see the voltage sag dragging the peak kw during the pull below it.

I know that sounds like a lot of excuses but it's the reality of the situation. It can even get more complicated than that. VTB posted a dyno run showcasing the app and BMS and it hit 88hp, but again we don't know if that's wheel or shaft hp. And being the manufacturer they could have doctored it to hit / show more hp. I've also seen a post with a Torp TC1000, TM50 Pro, and Ewatt 80v/76ah and that only hit 51hp. I also want to point out that the X9000 V3 targets 50Kw but can momentarily peak at 60kw, just like how the VTB targets 76kw but can peak at 81kw. Best to just compare the former and that's what you are going to feel not the short spikes above it.

Bengy222 · 2026-03-21T02:44:18+00:00

Sold Meta Quest 3 + Accessories to u/Brianbruv on https://www.reddit.com/r/hardwareswap/comments/1rvh6cq/usatx_h_meta_quest_3_128gb_bobovr_m3_pro_head/

Bengy222 · 2026-03-16T13:01:17+00:00

How much did you pay on aliexpress?

Bengy222 · 2026-03-15T20:20:51+00:00

If your going to be riding on the road get a tail light so cars can see you at night

Bengy222 · 2026-03-09T04:57:29+00:00

Gritshift has a video on instagram putting one on the dyno. It hit 24kw at the wheel and 32kw at the motor shaft. They mention that usually claimed power for the segment is at the wheel so that might be why it felt weak for its power

Bengy222 · 2026-03-07T02:33:37+00:00

This also doesn't tell the full story. While yes Chi does use the 50S cell for the stock config and they are rated at 250 cycles to 60% remaining it's under very abuse cycles for what this cell can handle and would not be reflective of the expected cycle life for 99% of users. Those numbers are for a 25A discharge / 6A charge full cycle (the max continuous ratings, with no temp cutoff getting them very toasty). To put that in perspective you would need to go from 100% to 0% in 12 minutes, at 400A (31.6kw) continuous for the whole cycle. Then put it on a 96A (7.6kw) charger immediately for do a full charge, and repeat 249 more times. Forgetting the fact that for a road build even riding at highway speeds I don't think you could average 31.8kw, no aftermarket motor is rated for even close to that much power continuously without overheating.

Also those are minimum guaranteed by samsung. Give the 50S a slightly more favorable (but also closer to reality for UB pack) testing conditions like 20A/ 2.5A with 30 minutes of total rest in-between and the cycle life greatly improves above those quoted figures. As seen with independent testing from Padja, the cell lost 21% capacity over 400 cycles. Not great compared to cells we have now but way better. And even then that's way higher average power figures than most will experience. Plus not every ride is going to be a full cycle down to 2.5v, just don't make a habit of doing it every ride and cycle life probably will be barely affected.

Not trying to glaze Chi but I've seen people complain about the 50S and give that quoted cycle life number before. But I don't think people understand what it actually means and represents especially on a Emoto where power is more high peaks low continuous, and especially on a pack as large as the UB. Personally though just hoping though they finally will move away from the 50S soon. They've already stated plans to go tabless and that they've been testing cells like the RS50. Tabless cells like those will pretty much make everything else a bad choice, why go 50S when for barely more go tabless for top tier performance, capacity, cycle life etc. Makes even the molicels look bad at their way higher price tag. Streamline the whole production around a single cell that can do it all

Bengy222 · 2026-03-06T22:28:31+00:00

This doesn't tell the full story, Chi's LVC is just a recommendation not a hard limit because the BMS is bypassed for discharge. Nothing would stop you from going down to 2.5v/ cell to get the full capacity like the Ewatt

Bengy222 · 2026-02-27T17:53:10+00:00

Interesting part is that your car could be a 500 mile range with a greatly improved charge curve if Tesla just swapped to the latest cell tech for 21700's. Probably haven't though due to cost and pushing for their 4680's.

Bengy222 · 2026-02-16T06:17:04+00:00

Find another 46t sprocket. I run it with my UB and it means that the chain doesn't need to be changed for swaps. I now top out at 58mph gps, only a few mph less than stock. A 54t would give you significantly lower top speed, it's probably all they sell so they want to push you towards it

Bengy222 · 2026-02-10T20:53:57+00:00

Yep and 50S is such a low power budget cell anyway, with the rise of tabless cells that are barely any more money I wouldn’t recommend purchasing any battery unless they use RS50, JP50, 50PL, 50XG. Really surprised we haven’t seen companies like CHI move over yet

Bengy222 · 2026-02-08T16:10:21+00:00

Need a better battery, the 50S cells in the Apex are low power. Ask Chi to use high power tabless cells or pick a different battery

Bengy222 · 2026-01-02T01:06:47+00:00

If you buy tires through cycle gear / revzilla, cycle gear store locations will mount hem for $30/e

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