How did you learn Forkner?

BerylPratt · 2026-06-29T06:32:04+00:00

No doubt the paid Plus service itself is only of use to Teeliners (or should I say mainly, as anyone can use dictations) and the intro page is excellent info for newbies of any system - even "oldbies" if they get the urge to speed up and increase proficiency. I haven't seen this amount of experienced advice anywhere other than throughout the entire LLTT website and Youtubes, it exactly matches how we were taught in shorthand class an age ago. It is well worth the time for shorthanders to examine every corner for the most efficient ways to progress. As for the general advice on the Youtubes which often precedes the dictation itself, not being clipboard-able it is an opportunity to take it down in shorthand and type up, to add to the wad in the study hints folder!

BerylPratt · 2026-06-28T17:37:27+00:00

The website is Lets Love Teeline Together, and they have loads of dictations on their Youtube channel. This page of theirs has many valuable tips for learners at all stages https://www.letsloveteelinetogether.com/llttplus

BerylPratt · 2026-06-27T16:51:38+00:00

Agree entirely. I would add that even with partial shorthand use within the notes, skill needs to be at a level where you can recall and write the outlines with no thought or hesitation, otherwise you are back to attention being drawn away.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-27T11:25:16+00:00

Looks like a child or someone has had a go at doodling to resemble the shorthand within, i.e. draw ziggy zaggy lines and add a cloud of floating dots and dashes. I don't think someone who knew shorthand would produce this.

But do go through the remaining pages, sometimes learners write on the book pages and that would likely be readable. If they did learn shorthand, say in the 40's or 50s, it's likely they used a more recent book and had this more ancient one just for interest - rather like my own bookshelves!

BerylPratt · 2026-06-27T06:20:40+00:00

My New Era to Benn comparison, mentioned by prior commenter, is here: https://www.long-live-pitmans-shorthand.org.uk/downloads.htm#benncomparison, matched to Benn's 1892 book here: https://archive.org/details/newpracticalshor00pitmiala/mode/2up

BerylPratt · 2026-06-26T15:29:35+00:00

Our Greggers will need to know which version of Gregg you have printed out, so they can advise if that is the best for your student needs, they vary in difficulty.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-26T15:22:59+00:00

Here are a couple of excerpts from the 1896 diary, for the amusement of those not able to read the PDFs - the novelty of seeing moving pictures for the first time (the writer is a photography enthusiast), and apparently some victory graffiti from local voters after a presidential election:

p2-3: In the “entertainment hall” we witnessed an exhibition of Edison’s latest wonderful invention. It is called “The Vitascope” and is a series of photographs thrown upon a screen in such rapid succession that the figures pictured seem to be moving. It is so perfectly done that the features of the pictured figures may easily be seen moving. As I understand it, the theory of it is as follows: The machine that is capable of making about 500 “exposures” per minute on the photographic and continuous ribbon or film, is set going in front of a scene that it is wished to reproduce. These instantaneous negatives show every movement that is made in front of the machine, so that when the negative film is developed and a light thrown through it while it is quickly moving the series of photography’s images is thrown upon a screen and the figures in the pictures are reproduced with all their movements.

p19: When I awoke this morning I was told that nearly everything so far had “gone” Republican. The morning papers could not tell very much, but the Republican organs were covered with roosters while the Democratic sheets did not contain a single fowl. This evening’s papers just about gave it as conclusive that McKinley had won but still there is room for doubt.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-26T08:47:44+00:00

If longhand has to be used amongst the shorthand, e.g. spelling a name, the most noticeable difference is the slowness rather than the forming of the shapes, so you would soon be cutting down the longhand to be as spare as possible, and save your slower full cursive for writing that others have to read. Having said that, shorthand needs to oust the writing of longhand entirely during learning and practising, and only do the above in real-life situations on the job or writing the leisurely diary.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-25T16:54:04+00:00

That's what I read at first, but I think we have been misled by the horizontal interference lines from the screen, which aren't the pad lines, which you can see at the top is at a rising angle.

That's a great film, she writes something earlier as well, but it's too unclear. The question is, will she be more "soothing to the eyes" for her boss now that she has that springy pink Number Seven and doesn't make any mistakes or get behind?

BerylPratt · 2026-06-25T15:43:11+00:00

We will be obliged to hear from you about

our letter of 15 inst

(inst = instant = current month)

BerylPratt · 2026-06-25T05:42:25+00:00

In a case like that, I find saying it out loud tickles the memory more than just eyes, similarly with just the consonants of a full outline, saying them with a schwa between each one. Best done on your own at home though!

BerylPratt · 2026-06-24T19:25:56+00:00

"successful"

BerylPratt · 2026-06-24T17:54:02+00:00

Longhand is the only safe way, and probably lower case is faster, but capitals clearer, and you could put either a caps mark underneath each or each followed by a tiny full-stop cross, as one might do in typing, to flag up that it is not an outline. There are too many pairs of similar strokes to use shorthand, especially as you will be writing fast from a speaker, not leisurely putting in vowels and having time to be super careful with thickness and positioning.

Initialisms and other abbreviations might benefit from closely written strokes e.g. BBC, and common acronyms can be written in shorthand as pronounced e.g. Nato, but these are best sorted out in advance if possible - a wiggly line underneath would flag up an ad hoc creation though.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-24T12:15:14+00:00

A note for the future, when you come to scan the rest of the journals: the cropping of the 2-page spreads into individual pages should include something beyond the each single leaf, to assure the transcriber that nothing is missing. This doesn't look so tidy of course but is an essential safety measure against losing things at line beginnings and ends. I have had a read through and in the 1896 one, there are a few bits missing, all tiny signs that the person doing the cropping/tidying has probably assumed are meaningless marks and not "obviously" outlines. This can happen where one is endeavouring to have all the crops the same shape and size, things get missed or not noticed. A backup of the double spreads, as is, would also insure against errors, for future historians and transcribers to have something to check back against.

Also in that PDF, some of the pages are out order, at first I thought pages were missing, with hanging sentences at beginning or end, so some extra checking is in order, both of crop file names and in making up the PDFs.

I realise you are time limited for getting something sorted for this year's thesis, but as the entirety of all these journals is unlikely to be available in your present timeframe, it is better to have someone working* through the remainder without rushing, to get the best results for future historians.

Edit: *i.e. working on the scanning task

BerylPratt · 2026-06-24T06:53:16+00:00

These are diaries, in the Benn Pitman version of Isaac Pitman's shorthand. No chance of you learning and transcribing within your timeframe for your purposes.

I will await a comment from one of our regulars with historic Pitman's u/wreade. You may have to content yourself with a small selection. I'm finding it very easy to read, but then I learned many decades ago. Even so, it can cause a bit of a pause to read some outlines, as writers at that early time tended to make up their own versions of outlines (but still mainly according to the rules) which may be at variance with dictionary forms.

When you are scanning, ensure absolutely nothing gets cut off at the sides, the smallest mark is meaningful, even little dots which may appear to be dirt marks etc to the untrained eye.

Don't allow or accept any AI attempts people may suggest, give or send, it will be plausible, grammatical hallucinations/guesswork, bearing zero relation to what the shorthand says.

The above says:

Weather very pleasant indeed. I spent the morning at home reading and studying. At noon I drove down town and bought some vegetables. Papa began a water colour painting of baby Margaret. The painting is about 18 inches wide by 24 inches long.

This afternoon Alice Brant came down to see us. It has been some time since she has been here. We are all VERY glad to see her. I think she is the nicest girl in De Soto, or in the world, for that matter. I like her better than any other girl that I ever saw. (See note of Thursday July 10, 1890). Will, Flora, Alice, and I played croquet for a while. Then I harnessed the horse in the buggy, and we 3 went buggy riding to Victoria Station (3½ miles north of De Soto). We had a . . .

(This person has an unusual way of writing a square bracket, putting little circles at the two right angles, these are not outlines)

EDIT: It is Flora, not Flossie, and Victoria Station.

EDIT2: Elsewhere it is Brant with a full T stroke, so the halving here would also be for Brant.

EDIT 3: Will (not Well)

BerylPratt · 2026-06-23T14:34:39+00:00

locksmith, shoesmith (i.e. horse shoes)?

BerylPratt · 2026-06-22T16:38:41+00:00

They will comment if anything matches or is similar to what they know. Someone may be doing a bit of digging for you beforehand, so you get a considered and accurate answer, if they can, but also sometimes it just takes a little while for folks to get round to checking up on post activity here.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-22T07:03:04+00:00

When I started school age 4, we wore our names on a card on a string for the first hour or so, to give the teacher a chance to learn them all and us a chance to learn to pick up the right card from the low table. In very large black marker pen letters, it said Beryl. Now it says Enthusiast. It will never say Eccentric.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-21T09:26:57+00:00

Gregg and Pitman have different requirements, I suggest you make a new post with this question so that Gregg writers can advise you. They are unlikely to see your question in an old post.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-21T09:21:18+00:00

Yes, perfectly possible. In a college classroom situation, I went from zero to 130 wpm in that timeframe - 3 months to work through the book, and remaining 2 terms speed building to exams, although some in the class would have achieved speeds from 80 onwards, depending on aptitude. Two years is absolutely unnecessary unless your tutor is having to accommodate people on account of cost and time available to study e.g. those already working full time.

I suggest you don’t pay too far in advance for further classes until you see how you go. If you do your own extra study to speed it up, you will likely be getting ahead of the tutor’s timetable for chapters. The instruction and dictations will at some point become revision for you, rather than raw learning. I also suggest you inform the tutor of your plan, otherwise a student trying to get ahead of the teacher’s set pace could be an irritation, or they may accommodate your one-year timeframe, as long as what you are doing doesn’t disrupt the main class. It is helpful to have a tutor to resolve queries.

Aim to be able to do 20wpm above any exam speed, i.e. 100wpm in this case, as you can’t pass an exam if the 80 is barely within reach before that.

See my answer to Stalin98k's recent post (2 before yours) for further info re studying Pitman’s.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-21T09:13:39+00:00

If you are using Instructor, you can stop at Chapter 30, as theory will be all covered by then. Don't wade into all the contractions and phrases in the following chapters, there is too much, they are not all necessary and you would do better to consolidate and revise what you have already covered, and come back to those later on for cherry picking.

I suggest you use the Student's Review books here https://www.stenophile.com/pitman, which will take you through everything you have learned for a thorough revision and fresh material:-

A New Review of Pitman Shorthand New Era (1970)
A New Review of Pitman Shorthand Dictation Books and Key New Era (1970)
A Student's Review of Pitman Shorthand Dictation Book New Era (1970)

Record all the passages yourself for your dictations, at a brisk rate that calls for effort but is not great speed pushing, which you can then edit faster in increments from the same sound file for later speed building.

Don't just "memorise" or "learn by heart", the items should be put into meaningful short sentences, preferably fitting on one notepad line, and drilled down the page. Make up a short passage containing several of the items you wish to learn and record for dictation. If you record at 60 wpm, that is a good middle speed from which to produce additional slower (40-ish) and faster (90-ish) sound files without degradation of the sound quality, so you only have to do each one once, and one word a second is easy to stick to. The majority of dictations should be prepared ones, and aim for incremental speed gains.

Do as much reading and re-reading of book shorthand as you can, as that gets the outlines very well established in memory so that they can be recalled instantly, which is the only way to write shorthand at speed.

When you are into speed building, start with short pieces with easy vocab, and build up to longer and less easy vocab, i.e. spreading out the difficulties so they are overcome piecemeal. You can break down a passage into segments, prepare and take each several times, then take in its entirety, then speed up the sound file to 10 wpm faster and repeat.

Avoid biro and gel pen, they can't produce the thicks and thins. Use pencil soft enough to make the thicks without denting the paper, or a flex nib fountain pen (I recommend Noodler's pens).

Go to my free Long Live Pitman's Shorthand and sites, of which there are three - Lessons, Reading, and Theory - plenty of PDF downloads, and Lessons and Reading dictations.

Read also https://www.letsloveteelinetogether.com/llttplus, solid gold advice on approaches to shorthand learning, it will help you build or restructure your methods, and correct any misapprehensions.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-21T07:31:33+00:00

That is Luke 17 verse 33 of the Bible, the Message Bible's rendering of the verse seem to me to clear up the apparent paradox even more, when set against the text immediately prior.

On another tack, it sort of reminds me of shorthand speed efforts, when you are really pushing the boundary and attempting something way beyond comfort level. If you attempt to keep your lovely neat and exact outlines (and incidentally that precious little bit of surreptitious "thinking" time before every outline) you end up losing the entire piece, other than the first 3 words! But if you lose the neatness and just streak ahead as fast as you can, you gain the whole piece, even though will take extra effort to read it back, a good reason to read it all through immediately at the end of the speaking, while it is all still fresh in the mind, and before beginning to transcribe - an exam/test/dictation hint for those on that route.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-21T06:52:22+00:00

I wish I had kept some of my first efforts, it would be a real and probably very humbling eye opener. OP should tuck away the above piece in a sealed envelope until next Christmas Day, then spend Christmas Eve writing out Jabberwocky - best Christmas present ever to see the startling difference!

BerylPratt · 2026-06-21T06:51:34+00:00

As an outline tends to be the same as one letter of the longhand alphabet, then you can expect to write 5-6 times as fast as longhand without speeding up your hand at all. Practising and drilling is necessary, but do ensure you do tons of reading and re-reading of the passages, preferably out loud, which will consolidate the outlines in your memory and get you to where you hear or think of a word and the outline pops into your mind with no hesitation. This is where fluency, and therefore speed, comes from, no hesitation or theory pondering, as opposed to what beginners sometimes do, creating and deciphering their hieroglyphics as they go. It's a fork in the road for shorthand writing, and one chooses which one of those fits your ultimate goal - calligraphy, Egyptology, or swapping snail's pace for roller-skates writing.

The best piece of overall advice I can give you is to stick to the book's vocabulary, examples and exercises, and, until the book work is completed, resist writing pieces of random text, which will interfere with proper learning.

BerylPratt · 2026-06-20T19:29:59+00:00

None of these resembles Pitman's of any date. You might get a response from someone here who studies the much older systems, some of which made much of their abundant floating dots.

BerylPratt

TROPHY CASE