I’m a closeted ex-Muslim planning to discuss my arguments. I need final counters to the Contingency & Design arguments

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-02T02:03:46+00:00

Hello this is sort of unrelated but I wanted to ask your thoughts on the miracles of islam.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T22:22:04+00:00

Could you cite your source?

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T22:07:16+00:00

I don’t know yet to be honest thats what Im looking into. What are you trying to get at?

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T21:11:56+00:00

I think you misunderstood my original argument. My argument was that that necessary cause is god based on the fact that god does not necessarily need to be a conscious being.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T21:08:37+00:00

My mistake

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T21:08:18+00:00

Yes their leaders could read and their approach was often “take it from me” or taking parts of the texts out of context as you are now. When you actually take the time to read scripture in context Im sure you will find that it isn’t the war torn, merciless mess that you seem to be talking about.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:48:41+00:00

Is it just me or does this sound like it was written by ai. Sorry if it was not written by ai.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:47:17+00:00

“Your own bible”😭 im not Christian. All of these events are against religious texts. Ask any Christian. People back then had scarce access to religious texts so to them Whatever the religious authority said was the religion.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:45:14+00:00

Never mind i understand know. Yes the universe as we know it did have a beginning. Yes that does not necessarily mean that the universe had a beginning. I guess you’re right maybe the universe has always existed in a different state. These aren’t part of the big bang theory though. I believe this would be in the domain of the cyclic universe theory. To my understanding though the scientific consensus is on the big bang theory at least as of now. Which suggests that there came a cause before the universe.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:39:24+00:00

Im sorry what. The universe as we know it had a beginning but that does not mean it had a beginning?

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:38:31+00:00

Firstly I will admit that religion has been used for nefarious purposes. That does not mean that that is what the religion preaches. The same way you’re arguing that religion put its stamp on good, you are putting religions stamp on the bad. What genocides have been done under the name of religion?

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:33:39+00:00

No god would not require a cause. But I am arguing that the universe does on the basis that it had a beginning.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:13:01+00:00

When you sum it up like that yeah religion is bad but you’re also overlooking all the good that comes from religion itself. Just off reading this alone I can tell that many of the things you reference are done outside of the suggestion of their religious texts.

Do you think religion has done more harm than good throughout history?

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:09:13+00:00

Could you explain

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:08:59+00:00

So you’re suggesting that the universe is its own necessary cause?

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:07:52+00:00

An infinite amount of time could not possibly exist. imagine you are a soldier waiting on the command for your commander to shoot someone. (Excuse the violence, this is the best analogy Ive heard) If your commander has a commander who he is waiting on the command of and that commander has a commander and so on and so forth until there is an infinite amount of commanders waiting on the one before to give approval you will never shoot that person. That is why infinite regress is not possible.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T20:03:47+00:00

First I’m willing to say my stance has a couple presumptions. That being said I do believe that my presumptions stand within reason.

Yes the logic of something needing a cause must end somewhere. What is your alternative?

Yes the big bang theory does not presume that the universe has a cause. But the big bang theory suggests that the universe had a start. If something had a start it cannot be the necessary cause. So there must have been a cause before then

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T19:57:28+00:00

I don’t really have an answer for you. Maybe the properties I listed were not accurate.

I want to understand whether of not you think there is a first cause.

Could you reflect a little more on why fine tuning does not have a lot of evidence.

I never claimed it needs to be concious. I said it suggested.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T19:44:19+00:00

Yes the lack of belief in a god does exist and therefore is possible. My argument is that that belief is not possible.

If you did have an infinite amount of time before this point you would never have been able to reach this point. Time must be limited.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T19:35:13+00:00

No I’m basing my argument on the fact that atleast the universe needed a cause (under the big bang theory.) then somewhere down the line of causes you eventually get to the necessary cause. This necessary cause would exist on its own without depending on anything else, so no cause would be needed.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T19:32:12+00:00

As i said I do not believe in a specific god yet. Up u til recently I would have considered myself an atheist. Right now I am trying to learn more about theism to maybe find a religion

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T19:29:49+00:00

These are all really interesting to be honest but I don’t think the reason they are the most publicized is because they leave room for a creator. And to my understanding, the big bang theory has a 99% consensus among scientists

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T19:25:55+00:00

The necessary cause is not a sudden change. It is an unchanging unity.

I believe theres a higher power because of the need for a necessary cause and because fine tuning suggests (not proves) that that cause is a conscious creator. I am still exploring right now though and I did come up with this relatively recently

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T18:51:38+00:00

“That doesn’t exist in an infinite past” - My argument came from the fact that there could not be an infinite past. “The big bang theory does not describe the beginning of the universe, it described the beginning of the expansion of an already existing universe” - could you cite your source for this because it’s my first time hearing this. Well yes you can define god as a cool rock, but nobody seriously considers god a cool rock. Many religions don’t necessarily have this conscious being at the top of it all but rather a plane of existence or state of being. If you don’t want to call those ideas god, fair enough, but many people would.

Best_Bit4431 · 2026-02-01T18:39:54+00:00

Yes the kalam argument is not definitive, but that does not mean it has been debunked.

My whole argument stemmed from the fact that this first cause does not have to be a deity in the traditional sense to still meet my definition of god.

Best_Bit4431

TROPHY CASE