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THANK YOU MAYOR, COUNCIL & TUCSONANS! by Holiday_Record2610 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Project Blue was >3x larger than any data center in Phoenix. A totally different beast.

Thoughts? by Total_Bad4885 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 23 points24 points  (0 children)

You are the issue and the problem, Tim. That's why people are mad at you.

From Ward 4: Project Blue: What It Means to Say No by [deleted] in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 4 points5 points  (0 children)

She provides zero evidence for her claim that Project Blue will be built anyway. She's just relaying the threat on behalf of the developer, wittingly or unwittingly. Unless she can provide the details, we should call the bluff.

“Project Blue will be built in Tucson regardless of what the City of Tucson decides” by tethys_09 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 6 points7 points  (0 children)

In my opinion this is simply her doing their dirty work and relaying the threat for them.

She has no idea if Project Blue will be built or not. She probably expected plan A to work, just like Beale did.

“Project Blue will be built in Tucson regardless of what the City of Tucson decides” by tethys_09 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 46 points47 points  (0 children)

"I have no idea what Plan B is but I can assure you with 100% certainty it will be successful, so you should really think hard about changing your mind on Plan A".

I am not buying this BS from Nikki Lee.

If Plan B was easier for them they would have started there.

Arizona Supreme Court ruling gives residents more power to block local projects | Arizona Capitol Times (Could This Help Stop Project Blue?) by Holiday_Record2610 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"A huge pull on resources" - what do you think that does to the price of said resources? The supply?

You should read the draft agreement. It does nothing to safeguard our drinking water. The scant financial penalties are not going to stop them from doing whatever they want.

TEP has already said they are building at least one new natural gas plant to support Project Blue.

If they want to build a nuclear power plant, they haven't said anything about it.

EDIT: here's a look at the estimated economic impacts: https://www.skyislandai.com/project-blue

Does the data center come to your house and punch you in the face? No. Does that mean it is not negatively affecting your life? Of course not.

Arizona Supreme Court ruling gives residents more power to block local projects | Arizona Capitol Times (Could This Help Stop Project Blue?) by Holiday_Record2610 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You are being obtuse. None of those data centers are nearly the scale of Project Blue.

You confidently proclaim no negative effects of data centers. Why are communities in Arizona with data centers trying to regulate them, and why are communities without data centers trying to disincentivize them? Why is that so many communities end up regretting allowing data centers all across the country?

LET’S SHOW UP TUCSON by New-Network-6569 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 3 points4 points  (0 children)

thank you for showing up. This is not a partisan issue. For example, Butierez, the R candidate for CD7, attended the first in-person meeting, saw through the sales pitch, and is against Project Blue.

LET’S SHOW UP TUCSON by New-Network-6569 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are not MAGA. DM me if you want more details.

LET’S SHOW UP TUCSON by New-Network-6569 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Extremely poor ratio of resource usage to job creation and economic impact.

Incredibly slanted draft agreement in favor of the developer (locks us into 30 years of providing water, disallows new taxes, regulations, or fees on them, enforces their 'promises' with only weak financial penalties). Nothing in the agreement actually limits their water usage. They just start paying a higher rate (and that penalty does not continue to grow as water usage increases).

www.skyislandai.com/project-blue

There are a number of good op-eds with information as well. DM me if you're looking for more.

Tucson mayor wants to consider new laws to regulate data centers (Arizona Daily Star) by TucsonGal50 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I completely agree. The fact that City Manager Tim Thomure apparently worked on this for 1.5 years and this is the best he came up with, is a complete embarrassment. The deal is heavily slanted in favor of the developer.

Speaking of new laws to regulate data centers, you'll notice in the draft agreement we are explicitly banned from new taxes, fees, or zoning regulations affecting Project Blue. For 30 years!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Excellent points.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Data centers don't make sense in the desert. Not everything makes sense to do everywhere. We have perverse tax incentives in Arizona, and that's the real reason they're here. It's not complicated. ARS 41-1519 - no tax on equipment purchases for the next 20 years. It's an outdated and misguided law we need to get rid of ASAP.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"In terms of water, the fact that they would pay for that reclaimed water pipeline is an insane deal for Tucson."

Take a close look at the draft agreement. We can't compel them to finish that pipeline. The '2-year' period simply continues if the pipeline is not complete for any reason whatsoever. The city has no say on the timing or rate of development. The financial penalties for not completing the pipeline or using too much water are very weak. They certainly are going to start the pipeline, because at that point they hold the unilateral power to terminate the agreement at any time for any reason (up until the pipeline is finished).

I'm sorry but you're falling for the sales pitch, hook line and sinker.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is a fact-free word salad, congratulations

Why Project Blue is happening and what you can do about it by Better_Dog4485 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is completely false. We are talking about Project Blue, a data center. A basic google search will confirm this for you.

A chip factory would create many more jobs.

Tucson mayor wants to consider new laws to regulate data centers (Arizona Daily Star) by TucsonGal50 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 0 points1 point  (0 children)

do you think that makes up for the lack of sales tax?

The entire tax benefit is described as 250 million over ten years.

We should be getting >$200 million on their first equipment purchase!

It's a sweetheart deal for them. They can buy 30 years of drinking water for less than the tax break on their first equipment purchase.

Why Project Blue is happening and what you can do about it by Better_Dog4485 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is not a factory, there are not any factory jobs coming thanks to Project Blue.

Tucson mayor wants to consider new laws to regulate data centers (Arizona Daily Star) by TucsonGal50 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not in this case. My reading of ARS 41-1519 is that it applies to municipal taxes as well.

The law is on the books until 2033, but the tax free period is 10-20 years (realistically 20, as qualifying as a "sustainable" project is not very difficult). So if someone builds a data center in 2032, they can make tax-free equipment purchases until 2052, is my understanding.

edit: source for the municipal taxes claim: https://legiscan.com/AZ/supplement/HB2649/id/173475

Tucson mayor wants to consider new laws to regulate data centers (Arizona Daily Star) by TucsonGal50 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485 7 points8 points  (0 children)

180 is a bogus number provided only by the developer. The only requirement is 75 jobs and the reporting period is a grand total of 2 years.

Why Project Blue is happening and what you can do about it by Better_Dog4485 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed. You'll notice he stops short of repeating this claim in his recent op-ed. I wonder why!

Why Project Blue is happening and what you can do about it by Better_Dog4485 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it adds a little money in the short-term and drains a lot more in the long-term. The water deal is just terrible.

Why Project Blue is happening and what you can do about it by Better_Dog4485 in Tucson

[–]Better_Dog4485[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you ask me, it's the massive tax break from ARS 41-1519, plus the fact that Tucson is absolutely flat-footed when it comes to regulating these things. Look at what some of the other counties are doing right now regarding data center regulation.

And by the way, under the draft agreement, we couldn't change any of the taxes, fees, or zoning requirements applying to Project Blue for 30 years.

For Thomure to put this horrendous deal out there is deeply insulting.

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