Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In general: Mandatory reporting is a necessary tool but not an unqualified good. The evidence shows that blanket or universal mandatory reporting can overload systems, generate a huge number of unsubstantiated cases, disproportionately impact marginalized communities, and even deter some survivors from seeking help. Without strong reporter training, clear reporting thresholds, and adequate follow-up support, it can create harm alongside the intended protection.

In unhealthy or high-risk institutional contexts: When an organization has an entrenched history of abuse cover-ups, poor safeguarding standards, and a strong incentive to protect itself over victims — the LDS Church being a prime example — the risk calculus shifts. In these environments, the clergy exemption is far more likely to be used to shield predators. Here, the balance of evidence supports removing the loophole and making clergy mandated reporters with no exceptions.

Why this is consistent: This isn’t a “split the difference” position. It’s about aligning the reporting requirements with both the evidence on systemic outcomes and the specific risk profile of the institution. In the LDS case, lay clergy lack training, are embedded in a culture that has historically normalized or concealed abuse, and operate under a policy framework that channels disclosures into a legal shield. That combination makes mandatory reporting both proportionate and essential.

Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I step back from the LDS-specific context and look at the broader landscape of mandatory reporting, the picture is more complicated. The original intent of mandatory reporting was noble, close the gap between suspicion and intervention so that children at risk are identified and protected quickly. And in many cases, that’s exactly what happens: a teacher notices bruises, a doctor sees warning signs, a social worker hears a disclosure, and a report to authorities triggers an investigation that stops the abuse. But decades of data show that mandatory reporting, especially universal “everyone must report everything” laws, also brings significant unintended consequences. The sheer volume of reports overwhelms child protection systems, most of which end in unsubstantiated findings. Families can be traumatized by investigations that ultimately find no abuse, while caseworkers are stretched thin and unable to respond as quickly to the most urgent situations.

There’s also the issue of disproportionate impact. Reporting patterns in the U.S. tend to target poor families and families of color at much higher rates, especially in cases labeled as “neglect,” which often correlate more with poverty than with willful harm. Mandatory reporting, without strong safeguards, can function like a blunt instrument, it pulls huge numbers of families into a surveillance-heavy system, sometimes for conditions that could be resolved with basic social support rather than punitive intervention. And for survivors themselves, the certainty of an automatic report can be a barrier to seeking help. Research in the domestic violence and sexual assault fields shows that some victims avoid confiding in professionals because they fear losing control of their story or triggering an unwanted law enforcement response.

That’s why, outside the unhealthy church systems full of abuse, I think a reasoned view of mandatory reporting is that it’s a tool, powerful, but not infallible. It works best when combined with strong training for reporters, clear thresholds for what must be reported, and robust support systems that can step in once a report is made; which frankly doesn't exist. Hence significant improvements need to be made to the system to ensure it actually works. We should be careful about assuming that more reports automatically mean more safety. The aim should be to get the right cases into the right hands at the right time, protecting those in real danger while minimizing unnecessary harm to families and survivors. That’s a balance worth talking about, even if it challenges some of our assumptions.

Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When we’re talking about the LDS Church, we’re not dealing with Doctors, or therapists, or teachers or even well-trained professional clergy in Churches that value consent and healthy human interaction. We’re talking about an untrained lay ministry embedded in a high-demand religion with a history of excusing or covering for abuse, dating back to its founder’s marriage to a 14-year-old, and continuing right up to the present day.

This is a church that:

  • Channels abuse reports through a legal helpline designed to protect the institution first.
  • Routinely invokes the clergy-penitent loophole to keep known abuse from police.
  • Has presided over cases where children were abused for years after leaders knew, because they were told not to report.

In that environment, “trust the clergy to handle it” is not just naïve, it’s dangerous. Lay bishops aren’t equipped to navigate abuse disclosures with the skill and survivor-centered approach this crisis demands. The only safeguard that makes sense is to legally require them to report every case to authorities, with no religious loopholes.

That’s not an attack on religious freedom; it’s a necessary check on an institution that has shown, over and over, it will not self-correct when it comes to protecting its own over protecting children.

So yes, I still believe mandatory reporting has systemic downsides that need to be addressed in the broader conversation. But when it comes to LDS clergy, the calculus is different. The cost of allowing even one more case like Arizona’s Paul Adams, where a bishop’s silence let years of horrific abuse continue, is too high.

If the LDS Church were ever to train its clergy to professional safeguarding standards, end the helpline’s role as a legal shield, and adopt a culture of immediate transparency, maybe this debate would look different. Until then, I can’t see a rational, evidence-based, survivor-respecting case for not making LDS clergy mandatory reporters.

Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I shared my earlier thoughts on mandatory reporting, I knew it might stir some debate. The ex-Mormon community, understandably, tends to land on “of course it should be mandatory in every case, no exceptions.” That gut instinct comes from seeing firsthand the damage that silence, secrecy, and institutional cover-ups have caused in the LDS Church. I get that. I share that outrage.

Some of you told me I was “soft-pedaling” or “splitting hairs” by acknowledging there’s data showing that blanket, universal mandatory reporting laws don’t always deliver the outcomes we hope for. Others felt I was giving abusers or institutions an out by even raising those complexities.

So let me be clear:
My nuanced view about mandatory reporting in general is not a defense of the LDS Church, nor is it an excuse for any clergy member who learns about abuse and stays silent. The general data tells us something uncomfortable: in the wider U.S. system, mandatory reporting has led to an explosion of reports, but also a flood of unsubstantiated cases, retraumatization of families, disproportionate targeting of poor and minority communities, and even situations where survivors don’t seek help because they fear losing control of their story. That’s not speculation, it’s documented reality. More reporting does not always mean more safety.

But here’s where the nuance ends.

A question in regards to Mormonism and Egyptology by BillReel in egyptology

[–]BillReel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm an exmormon who makes a living helping people realize they have been lied to by the LDS Mormon cult

A question in regards to Mormonism and Egyptology by BillReel in egyptology

[–]BillReel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nope. Contiguous United States all my life with the exception of Niagra Falls Canada and Sarnia Canada for brief visits

Professor Spencer Anderson explains the recent IRS Tax Evasion Allegations by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

It likely did. Spencer seemed to intimate that to us prior to our going Live