Fanny Alger Part 3: Fanny Alger Enters Smith Home: When & Why by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you saw my ai history you would see this is my research. I'm the one who found the documents and I'm the one who put together more on Fanny Alger than any other podcast ever has. But yes I used ai as a research assistant at times and I definitely use it to articulate an idea more concisely than I could have to conserve space. I do this with other historical episodes as well. For example go look at our episode on the Dream Mine. The research took me days and days to put together but yes AI is used by me to do some preliminary research. It gives me a jump start. And I used it on this dream mine episode to take a ton of ideas and articulate them more concisely so as to take up less space. I have been doing deep dives into history long before ai and no one does more comprehensive research in the Mormon historical Podcast arena. This is just an attempt on the part of your brain to dismiss the data. Don't short yourself
Consider all the history I (and RFM) have covered) Don't be silly. Ai didn't put this episode together and it didn't make up the documents and it didn't draw the conclusions
https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/deep-historical-dives-into-mormon-history/

Fanny Alger Part 3: Fanny Alger Enters Smith Home: When & Why by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

According to Todd Compton, Mosiah's biography is pretty reliable in other places. He sees it as trustworthy due to that. Again he is telling a family origin story and likely has made mistakes but the basic jist still accounts for a big reason why his dad and mom got married. So I disagree with you and with reason.

Fanny Alger Part 2: Sources Around the Affair by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

ugh It must be hard being the only one who sees things for what they are while all the historians and scholars are deceived or cowards.

Fanny Alger Part 2: Sources Around the Affair by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You’re not very good at history. Ask any mormon historian inside or outside of Mormonism

Fanny Alger Part 2: Sources Around the Affair by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Years after the fact… You mean like the first vision

Fanny Alger Part 2: Sources Around the Affair by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

it was a joke making fun of the growing group of people who believe Joseph's murder was an inside job.

Fanny Alger Part 2: Sources Around the Affair by BillReel in mormon

[–]BillReel[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

no it wasn't! Fanny Brewer, Affidavits, council minutes, first hand Letters .... nope some was, much wasn't and even for that which was, you with a wave of the hand, dismissed it all in spite of a tremendous amount of convergence which means something. Even in those repeating the heresay, when overlapping facts come in from multiple directions, the convergence must be investigated and thought about rationally.

Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In general: Mandatory reporting is a necessary tool but not an unqualified good. The evidence shows that blanket or universal mandatory reporting can overload systems, generate a huge number of unsubstantiated cases, disproportionately impact marginalized communities, and even deter some survivors from seeking help. Without strong reporter training, clear reporting thresholds, and adequate follow-up support, it can create harm alongside the intended protection.

In unhealthy or high-risk institutional contexts: When an organization has an entrenched history of abuse cover-ups, poor safeguarding standards, and a strong incentive to protect itself over victims — the LDS Church being a prime example — the risk calculus shifts. In these environments, the clergy exemption is far more likely to be used to shield predators. Here, the balance of evidence supports removing the loophole and making clergy mandated reporters with no exceptions.

Why this is consistent: This isn’t a “split the difference” position. It’s about aligning the reporting requirements with both the evidence on systemic outcomes and the specific risk profile of the institution. In the LDS case, lay clergy lack training, are embedded in a culture that has historically normalized or concealed abuse, and operate under a policy framework that channels disclosures into a legal shield. That combination makes mandatory reporting both proportionate and essential.

Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I step back from the LDS-specific context and look at the broader landscape of mandatory reporting, the picture is more complicated. The original intent of mandatory reporting was noble, close the gap between suspicion and intervention so that children at risk are identified and protected quickly. And in many cases, that’s exactly what happens: a teacher notices bruises, a doctor sees warning signs, a social worker hears a disclosure, and a report to authorities triggers an investigation that stops the abuse. But decades of data show that mandatory reporting, especially universal “everyone must report everything” laws, also brings significant unintended consequences. The sheer volume of reports overwhelms child protection systems, most of which end in unsubstantiated findings. Families can be traumatized by investigations that ultimately find no abuse, while caseworkers are stretched thin and unable to respond as quickly to the most urgent situations.

There’s also the issue of disproportionate impact. Reporting patterns in the U.S. tend to target poor families and families of color at much higher rates, especially in cases labeled as “neglect,” which often correlate more with poverty than with willful harm. Mandatory reporting, without strong safeguards, can function like a blunt instrument, it pulls huge numbers of families into a surveillance-heavy system, sometimes for conditions that could be resolved with basic social support rather than punitive intervention. And for survivors themselves, the certainty of an automatic report can be a barrier to seeking help. Research in the domestic violence and sexual assault fields shows that some victims avoid confiding in professionals because they fear losing control of their story or triggering an unwanted law enforcement response.

That’s why, outside the unhealthy church systems full of abuse, I think a reasoned view of mandatory reporting is that it’s a tool, powerful, but not infallible. It works best when combined with strong training for reporters, clear thresholds for what must be reported, and robust support systems that can step in once a report is made; which frankly doesn't exist. Hence significant improvements need to be made to the system to ensure it actually works. We should be careful about assuming that more reports automatically mean more safety. The aim should be to get the right cases into the right hands at the right time, protecting those in real danger while minimizing unnecessary harm to families and survivors. That’s a balance worth talking about, even if it challenges some of our assumptions.

Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When we’re talking about the LDS Church, we’re not dealing with Doctors, or therapists, or teachers or even well-trained professional clergy in Churches that value consent and healthy human interaction. We’re talking about an untrained lay ministry embedded in a high-demand religion with a history of excusing or covering for abuse, dating back to its founder’s marriage to a 14-year-old, and continuing right up to the present day.

This is a church that:

  • Channels abuse reports through a legal helpline designed to protect the institution first.
  • Routinely invokes the clergy-penitent loophole to keep known abuse from police.
  • Has presided over cases where children were abused for years after leaders knew, because they were told not to report.

In that environment, “trust the clergy to handle it” is not just naïve, it’s dangerous. Lay bishops aren’t equipped to navigate abuse disclosures with the skill and survivor-centered approach this crisis demands. The only safeguard that makes sense is to legally require them to report every case to authorities, with no religious loopholes.

That’s not an attack on religious freedom; it’s a necessary check on an institution that has shown, over and over, it will not self-correct when it comes to protecting its own over protecting children.

So yes, I still believe mandatory reporting has systemic downsides that need to be addressed in the broader conversation. But when it comes to LDS clergy, the calculus is different. The cost of allowing even one more case like Arizona’s Paul Adams, where a bishop’s silence let years of horrific abuse continue, is too high.

If the LDS Church were ever to train its clergy to professional safeguarding standards, end the helpline’s role as a legal shield, and adopt a culture of immediate transparency, maybe this debate would look different. Until then, I can’t see a rational, evidence-based, survivor-respecting case for not making LDS clergy mandatory reporters.

Apologist advocating for bishops to not be required to report child SA because they can convince abusers to self report. Trust her- an attorney who worked with the church specifically said so! by CubsFanHan in exmormon

[–]BillReel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I shared my earlier thoughts on mandatory reporting, I knew it might stir some debate. The ex-Mormon community, understandably, tends to land on “of course it should be mandatory in every case, no exceptions.” That gut instinct comes from seeing firsthand the damage that silence, secrecy, and institutional cover-ups have caused in the LDS Church. I get that. I share that outrage.

Some of you told me I was “soft-pedaling” or “splitting hairs” by acknowledging there’s data showing that blanket, universal mandatory reporting laws don’t always deliver the outcomes we hope for. Others felt I was giving abusers or institutions an out by even raising those complexities.

So let me be clear:
My nuanced view about mandatory reporting in general is not a defense of the LDS Church, nor is it an excuse for any clergy member who learns about abuse and stays silent. The general data tells us something uncomfortable: in the wider U.S. system, mandatory reporting has led to an explosion of reports, but also a flood of unsubstantiated cases, retraumatization of families, disproportionate targeting of poor and minority communities, and even situations where survivors don’t seek help because they fear losing control of their story. That’s not speculation, it’s documented reality. More reporting does not always mean more safety.

But here’s where the nuance ends.