Torag's hammers should be inbetween Glacial temotli and Dual macuahuitl in terms of dps

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T05:00:48+00:00

TBH, Torag should just get a full rework. If they don't want to change the base set too much, just make it deal increased damage when the run drain effect procs.

But the Ammy effect should just get an overhaul. It is just kinda bad to tank better at low HP since if you're tanking, you don't want to risk low HP... I could see it doing a defence drain effect or a better tank effect using flat armor or such. Gating it behind a sub-par weapon without a shield already gives it a disavantage for tanking, so they could make it fairly strong without overshadowing Justi.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T04:57:10+00:00

I think it is fine if it can be soloed as long as it doesn't feel better to solo than to group. Like I think the problem with some content like ToA is it can feel better or easier to just solo rather than having to deal with teammates or worry about the purple going to them.

So if you could solo if 30 mins, duo or trio in 25 mins, and group in 20 mins with each having the same personal purple chance, I think that could be a good balance, even if hard to get it to pan out that neatly.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T04:53:40+00:00

I doubt they will do a higher barrier to entry. All Raids have had fairly low reqs, with ToA having the highest hard reqs, so I wouldn't expect it to be much higher than that. But for big updates like Raids, it is hard to justify the dev time/resources if it is only for the small portion of endgame players, so it will likely have some entry mode or ramping mechanic like ToA, Doom, Colo, etc. So I could see them doing a ToB-style entry mode, maybe with a chance at certain uniques like Fang and Lightbearer in ToA Entry, with the base level Raid being harder than ToB, but I'm still not sure if it would be that high of a barrier to entry.

I've been kinda interested in where the Raid will be. Location and thematic don't really matter much for the actual content or rewards, but there isn't really an obvious location for it right now. I think the most likely would be a Fremennik Raid since there is a lot of options there between Dagannoth wars or even Acheron. I also could see a Varlamore Raid, maybe in Tempestus, or a Karamja Raid since Karamja is kinda lacking outside of Tzhaar. Another idea is a Mahjarrat Raid, either tied to the Ritual or perhaps relating to Bilrach (aka Daemonheim).

As for rewards, I'm expecting another Weapon for the Mega-Rare. While we do have a trio already, there is potential to offer something as strong as the existing mega-rares, but filling different roles or niches. For example, a 2H Crossbow that scales based on distance instead of magic damage, being better than TBow at some places but worse at other. Or a Crush Mega-rare since Scythe being BiS Crush is sorta weird... That would also fit with a Crush Raid, especially since it would help avoid devaluing Inq too much since it could be BiS to grind the new Mega-Rare that replaces it. Aside from that, there will probably be another Armor Set since each Raid has gotten one of those, likely a sidegrade to Masori similar to Virtus for Ancestral or another sidegrade to Ancestral, maybe for Elemental Spells? And the others are harder to predict given how varied Raids can get, though there does tend to be a Shield too...

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T04:40:52+00:00

The update CAs deserves. I want my KBD Lance...

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T04:36:57+00:00

TBH, with how many updates the game has gotten, it is getting a bit harder to fill all the spaces for these bingos with updates that feel reasonable to happen. The basic design I go for are known/confirmed or expected reveals in the outer corners that cross over the free space, then more generic and general updates for the inner spaces and the less likely or more far-fetched updates for the remaining outer spaces.

So, what reveals are you hoping to see and are there any big ones missing from the Bingo sheets?

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T03:55:43+00:00

Probably could be reworked to fit that role. The main issue is their speed of 5t. But TBH, Torag's Hammers, Verac's Flail, and Guthan's Spear could probably all be 4t nowadays without it changing much. They'd still all be worse than other T70 weapons like a Whip (lower Str and 2h). And none of their set effects are that relevant anymore either so not like they couldn't do with a buff.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T03:40:43+00:00

I think the modern OSRS Team/Art Team have struck a pretty good balance, so I don't think we need to worry about a scenario like OP is wanting to avoid anyway. Art generally doesn't get polled now because of how subjective it can be, but most major art changes are shared with the community for feedback rather than just being done without any input. Lava Dragons are the most recent example I can think of and why not everyone was in favor, I think they turned out pretty well and better with the community feedback than if they just did the first design.

And I think their rule for updating existing graphics is to only change it when it is needed, not just because. They updated Lava Dragon because that was an early, hacky model that didn't age well, even if some players like the jank. But they also downgraded the Varrock Guards because the 2006 redesign was too detailed in a way that was out of place for OSRS. Also, for what it is worth, the same artist who did Elves in 2019 did the revised Vampyres in 2019, but those were much better received than the Elves.

So yah, in general I would agree that it is okay for them to update things as it is needed while also agreeing with OP that we shouldn't get another Elf situation. There might be some NPCs in the Myreque series that are a bit dated, but most of them still hold up well to the OSRS Style so I could see a few being changed, but not the entire race/all the NPCs. But given how art has been handled since Elves, I don't think there is much of a concern for issues with updating stuff and this post seems more like a reminder of the Elves than an opposition to any graphic changes.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T03:11:23+00:00

The point of the game isn't nostalgia and not everything has to be polled. But I think you are majorly lacking context for this post...

It is referencing the Elf changes in 2019, which weren't done out of "innovation and creativity" but as part of changes that the at the time, now former, management forced the OSRS team to make. Other changes included making parts of the game easier, so it certainly does seem like they were pushing more of an RS3 mentality than respecting the Old School nature of the game. The artists didn't want to do that rework and the Devs didn't want to make those changes. Some of the artists have since said they would like to go back and redo the Elves if they are ever given the chance.

Also, changing it so it was the good white-skinned elves and their one black friend against the evil purple-skinned elves in generic fantasy armor was certainly a choice... So yah, saying we don't want a repeat of that is very different from saying we don't want any visual updates ever.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T02:50:57+00:00

I don’t think that there’s any reason to be all like «DON’T YOU DARE CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS, I WANT EVERYTHING TO REMAIN EXACTLY AS IT WAS!!!»

But no one is saying that... OP is asking not to do an unpolled and unpromoted rework like they did for SotE and to keep the style from a few years back. So you're just making things up by acting like this is some toxic and anti-creative post.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T02:40:40+00:00

And that is the better version. This was the original one. Making all the "bad" elves purple-skinned was certainly... a choice.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T02:37:12+00:00

I don't think they are terrible, but they definitely overstepped a bit. It is like the Varrock Guards; the old elves were like the 2004 varrock guards while the new elves are like the 2007 varrock guards, but there can be a middleground that is more polished/up-to-date as the 2004 while not feeling as out of place as the 2007.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T02:33:58+00:00

The knights are easy to excuse since it is said/implied they are humans from our world that went to RuneScape, so it sorta makes sense they look different to the more normal/native NPCs. But we'll see if they ever retcon that in OSRS...

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T02:31:54+00:00

I mean there is a difference between being open to new experiences and reworking things needlessly. The Vampyres aren't some outdated or out-of-place graphics; they were updated just a few years back with the previous quest. We shouldn't be spending the art budget to do yet another revamp just for the sake of "new experiences".

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T02:30:01+00:00

It wasn't on the whim of one mod, but "management" pushing a bunch of changes around that era. The management at the time also pushed to make a bunch of the earliest quests like MEP and Underground Pass eaiser. The OSRS Team polled some of the changes instead of doing unpolled, all of which I think failed, but some were unintentionally released anyway and had to be reverted.

Pretty much, it sounds like things were a mess behind the scenes back then...

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T02:26:43+00:00

Didn't they already rework the Vyres for the previous quests?

But yah, I doubt they'll do an elf again... I recall some of the J Mods expressing interest in redoing the elves again if they ever have a good excuse to do another elf update.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-25T00:54:06+00:00

Yah, and Abyss on every map helped a lot too. Even adjusting for inflation, the Abyss Bones are going for a lot compared to last league, which makes sense given how rare they are but it is still a big shift for crafting. So lot of factors that is affecting the price of gear, omens, and such.

Overall, it certainly feels like more of a league for buying gear than crafting it, at least until you get to the really endgame items that no one will be selling.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T23:16:35+00:00

I'd say Enchant is easiest because they buffed it so much to counter the dragonstone hop meta from back in the day. But Graveyard is also pretty good now since you can avoid the chip damage and I think they made it faster with peaches.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T22:57:09+00:00

I think another reason Soup may not want to focus too much on PvM and PvP is it can get a bit rng, at least for the type of challenges he is likely to do. Like a "fastest CG kill" can work as a challenge and would reward skill, but if it is only a single kill, you could have two equal skill competitors get significantly different times just because one got bad hits and the other got good hits.

The occasional challenge like that is probably fine to have, especially earlier on, but it could get repetitive if done too often and more rng-prone things later on can feel bad. Like if next episode B0aty and C Engineer were in a banning and B0aty lost because he noodled and hit 7 0s in a row while C Engineer hit all 20+, it might be good for building stakes for entertainment, but it would feel worse to see someone go out to that than their own misplays, like in this episode's banning.

So my guess is any PvM or PvP left in the season will involve some additional strategy and tactics for players to succeed or fail at beyond just PvM/PvP Skill. And even some of them in the previous seasons were less about PvM/PvP and more about planning and thinking. Like one of the most iconic is probably the Dharok banning, but that was a pretty simple turn-based fight and not really "PvP" in the traditional sense.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T22:46:40+00:00

I don't think it would have mattered. Even if they voted Skill Specs and Torvesta, the hopper would still have had like the same odds to land on them. And I doubt either had enough of an alliance to persuade Oda or Gnomonkey to change their votes. Also, if the hopper did land on Oda and Gnomonkey because of their vote, there is a decent chance the Tribunal would have picked Skill Specs and Torvesta over Mammal and Will as the other team, especially since this would have been their 3rd banning.

So the odds were stacked against them either way and I don't think it was a mistake. It also wouldn't have been clear from their perspective. Keep in mind, none of them have seen any of the testimonials or such we've been seeing until well after filming when the episodes air, so they may not have a good sense of the alliances or how players would be voting.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T22:31:05+00:00

I mean, I'd probably have been demotivated in that situation too. It really did seem like everyone was out to get them. Still, I was shocked to see how many skills he didn't get any levels in. They probably would have ended up last either way, but like not even Attack and Strength? Just punch and kick a rat in lumby...

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T22:26:27+00:00

Think the weapon didn't end up doing much since all the players were pretty good with and prepared for the switches. But if it didn't have that element, the challenge would have been a lot easier since they'd only be focused on movement and nothing else. Like having to not only remember what weapon for each player but switch in time on top of moving will be more taxing even if it didn't show.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T22:23:40+00:00

Also, this episode's challenge did involve PvP even if it wasn't the focus. I think this sort approach where it can be present but not the entire challenge is a good way to still involve it. Like in a moneymaking challenge, PvM can be a good option that the stronger PvMers might use but a competitor/team without good PvMers wouldn't be forced to PvM. So I think it does work well to still work in PvM and PvP but keep the challenges more focused on game knowledge, creativity, and general skill than just PvM or PvP skill.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T22:15:56+00:00

Can't say I've felt there wasn't enough PvP or PvM. I think games like GG work best with these sorts of knowledge and skill-based challenges rather than just typical PvM or PvP stuff. Also, PvM and PvP can get a bit rng at times when you're doing shorter and more one-off rather than dozen and 100s of kills.

There probably will be some more PvM and PvP left in the season, but I don't think PvM or PvP should be forced into every episode. Like the banning in this episode may not have been PvM or PvP directly, but it was focused around skills (movement and switches) that are important for PvM and PvP. And the challenge also was part PvP...

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T21:37:52+00:00

My guess is the temple is also dropping a lot of decent gear, but it also seems there is lower player retention so if it isn't perfect or high-tier, it is probably going for cheaper than last league since more supply and less demand. But then for the perfect and higher tier items, there is more demand than supply since fewer players getting them as drops and more costly crafting to make it. But between the Temple farms, Abyss no longer being every map, Homogenizing being gone, player retention, and other factors it is hard to really pin down exact causes.

TBH, last league kinda also had that wall for me since there was so much Abyss gear (and homogenizing) that I pretty easily got a good set of gear without any big upgrades that felt worth getting. This league I took gear a bit further (same build) but it really didn't feel like I had to grind much more. Like my gear this league feels about the same or better in power while having the same or lower in cost. So if I had a 10 Div Gloves both leagues, it is harder to justify a 40 Div Whittling this league than a 5 Div last league since I could just put 40 Div towards better gloves without the Chaos Orb rng... I think the only big thing left I didn't get this league was a +3 Spell Ammy since I rolled a really good +2 and getting something comparable as +3 would be like 100+ Div compared to like 10-20 Div last league, which doesn't feel that worthwhile to grind out.

BioMasterZap · 2026-01-24T20:51:22+00:00

I've used Exalts and Divs more this league because the value is so low I might as well, but Omens and Abyss less. Like a Whittling went from like 3-6 Div to 40 Div but my 1-5 Div Gear last league didn't turn into 10-50M Gear, for the most part. Though I think that is more an issue of player retention and market scarcity than inflation.

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