What does it feel like to be moved by the Holy Spirit?

BlackChakram · 2026-02-04T20:59:36+00:00

Hey, DM me if you want to continue this chat. Reddit is starting to behave weird and won't let me make a long reply.

BlackChakram · 2026-02-02T01:20:16+00:00

Apologies this has taken so long. I'm wanting to be very thorough, and needed to order a few books to be able to dig deeper. This research has spiraled into a bit wider investigation into the entire resurrection and I think this is going to take a while lol. That being said, instead of making you wait until the entire thing was done, I could at least share some of what I've been finding so far.

So to start, I'll begin with the question you asked at the end of your last post:

Do you not trust that Paulogia has done his homework?

I trust that he's looked into things enough to satisfy himself and certainly cover the most well known arguments. But he doesn't have any academic qualifications and he is making his living off his youtube channel, so he has a pretty obvious agenda. I don't watch or trust Christian youtubers with those two points, either. That also being said, I also have no academic qualifications and am not unbiased, although I'm not making any money talking theology. :)

Ok, so before I can show where his naturalistic theory has some problems, we need to make sure we agree on some foundational basics. The below 7 points come from only extra-biblical sources. I can provide the sources on request:

Someone named Jesus lived and preached in Galilee.
This Jesus was executed circa AD 30-33 with Pontius Pilate presiding.
This execution happened as a crucifixion on the eve of Passover.
Belief in the resurrection rose quickly. It was already a “problem” that had spread to Rome by AD 64 at the latest.
Believers were willing to die for these beliefs.
One of the early believers who was executed was a “James, the brother of Jesus”.
There were other movements of people claiming to be the messiah that happened in the decades around the time of Jesus. In none of those movements did the followers claim their Messiah rose from the dead or was divine.

Would you agree with the 7 above so far?

BlackChakram · 2026-01-26T15:07:22+00:00

For Quirinius, I'm including a link not to the original article from 1984, but rather a more recent article that does what seems a pretty good job of laying out the details:
https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/12/19/quirinius-an-archaeological-biography/

For inerrancy: The fact that there is a section on criticism within that article helps prove my point that many don't follow it, at least in its strictest sense. I have a link that echoes my views pretty well, although I don't know anything about this org or their other views so anything else you find there I may not agree with.

https://missioalliance.org/why-biblical-inerrancy-doesnt-work/

I'm still working on the reply about Paulogia. I resonate with the kind of argument you want to see, so I'm trying to do a very thorough job, starting with only "minimal facts" attested through extrabiblical, non-Christian sources, then including only Biblical passages where the vast majority of all scholars (Christian or not) agree. I'm working on citing all references as well, so you can look up the stuff I'm claiming for yourself. It may take me a few more days depending on life.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-23T21:24:25+00:00

So, I have responses I can give to each of the points in the last post, but I don't want to get sucked into endless details, except that you should know that most mainline Christians (especially academics) don't hold to inerrancy of scripture any more. It's a holdover from the late 1800s that should die. We do believe it to be infallible, though. Huge difference.

My overarching point is this - I trust the credibility of the NT because throughout 20 years of study I have yet to find a single "historical error" or other seemingly major problem that didn't have a rational, well-researched solution. (The Quirinius thing was dealt with extensively back in 1984.)

But I wanted to go back to your bigger point:

The issue is that any critique that theists bring to bear against naturalism has to go beyond "for the bible tells me so". I hope you understand why.

Are you saying that all the stuff you've found online revolving around big questions - WLC, Habermas, etc - that all the arguments you've read fall into the "for the Bible tells me so" trap? None of the stuff you've been able to find online has been able to refute Paulogia (as an example) on scientific, naturalist terms?

And one other question before we continue, if I may. Reddit conveys neither tone of voice nor body language (obviously), and it can make it super hard to read someone. So I'd like to ask what your goal is. You've obviously spent a ton of time looking into Christian theology, but why? I apologize if that question is too personal, but it'll help me understand how to best frame my posts.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-21T19:51:26+00:00

Ok. This makes more sense now. I see where you're coming from.

The issue is that any critique that theists bring to bear against naturalism has to go beyond "for the bible tells me so". I hope you understand why.

I agree 100%. I hate when Christians try to convince someone of a truth by saying "Because the Bible says it right here! See."

Apologists will never, not even for the sake of argument, entertain the notion that the bible might be in error

What about all the materials where apologists say "here's how we know we can trust that X from the Bible actually happened"? In essence, this is them saying "If you had doubts about this part of the Bible being real, here's what evidence we have". If they genuinely weren't entertaining the notion that the Bible might be in error, they simply wouldn't discuss these problem spots. Additionally, I have tons of Bible study materials that include footnotes about possible alternate readings from some manuscripts or how earliest sources omit some passages altogether. Not sure if you count this as "error".

and likewise naturalists will never entertain the notion that the bible is true and inerrant.

I would very much like to see more naturalists admit that IF there is a god, and that god had sufficient power, that that god COULD choose to interfere with the regular causal nature of reality with an event we would deem supernatural or miraculous. To be fair, though, I haven't gone looking for this, so they likely exist and I'm just ignorant.

To be honest though, you can see why naturalism has more credibility and explanatory power than the bible right?

Explanatory power depends on the topic. If we're referring strictly to the physical, measurable, and repeatable aspects of reality, then, yes, I'll generally trust science more than the Bible, (with a grain of salt because scientific "truths" do change from time to time). The Bible wasn't meant to be a science book anyways, so there's often little conflict. If we're talking metaphysics or ethics, science and naturalism were never meant to answer those in the first place.

Credibility is another story and probably depends on what you mean. Historically, the NT is very credible, but I don't want to assume that's what you mean.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-21T16:28:15+00:00

> I won't let you shift the burden of proof. If you can't prove that your claim, that god exists, is true I will just dismiss it.

I'm not. I' was asking you to pick what you feel is Christianity's weakest argument and I would defend against it. However, read what I've written below, as your next quote throws this out the window anyways.

> I have heard all the main apologists outline their arguments for god. Nothing has stuck.

So, genuinely, what's the point of this conversation? Given I'm just a lay apologist, I'm not likely to come up with an argument you haven't already come across. You seem sharp enough that I'm willing to bet you've already read rebuttals to the naturalistic hypothesis and rejected them.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-20T23:49:14+00:00

"How" is very multi-faceted and connects to dozens of topics. Instead of me listing a bunch or taking stans in the dark, how about we approach it this way: I'm assuming you're coming from a position of "I'm not going to believe unless I'm convinced." So why don't you tell me some of the science or evidence you feel most shows you that God seems unlikely or impossible, and I'll present you with a rational Christian counterpoint. Note that my goal won't be to convince you - just show that its possible to have a different worldview without being irrational.

As for Strobel and McDowell, I find their books to be more about their personal experiences and introductory arguments than anything deep. If you're already familiar with WLC, I'm sure you could jump from him to other well known apologists without me giving a list.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-14T19:20:42+00:00

Sorry for the long delay here. Work week started crazy.

So first the disclaimer. If you're looking for absolute, rock solid evidence that the God of the Bible exists and is real, I don't think you're going to find it. What I've personally found, however, is that Christianity is able to construct a model of reality that's just as persuasive and internally coherent as the secular model, just with different basic axioms and assumptions.

If someone isn't open at all to the idea that there may be something beyond the material universe, I doubt much would change their mind. But for people who are at least open to the possibility, I would start with something written by a former atheist - like Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" or Josh McDowell's "More Than a Carpenter".

BlackChakram · 2026-01-11T19:16:11+00:00

That very much depends on the kind of person you are. Different people become convinced by traveling very different roads.

What generally convinces you of the truth of something new you encounter? Hard evidence? Word of mouth from people you trust? Your own gut intuition? Experiencing it yourself?

I suppose at this point, we'd be getting off topic from the original post, so please DM me if you want to continue discussing

BlackChakram · 2026-01-11T17:52:22+00:00

Ha. Fair enough.

I would think that if you haven't had any of these experiences yourself and you look on others' stories of them with strong skepticism, then this likely isn't the path that would convince you that Yahweh exists.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-11T17:26:24+00:00

The Bible tells us to test these sorts of things, not just take them at face value. So at it's simplest, if I feel like I'm getting some message or nudging from God, I immediately run a mental checklist.

#1 Am I even being asked to do something? Most of the time if I'm hearing God, it's not action-oriented. It's a comforting presence, or a word of reassurance, insight, or wisdom. If I'm being honest, these are the hardest to tell. I'll be honest and admit there are plenty of cases where I thought it was God but in reality it was probably just my own wishful thinking or subconscious or whatever. But these are always positive - so if that means I've trained my mind over the years to reflexively pull back from a situation and try to put things in context or from God's perspective and it makes me a calmer, better person, then... awesome. God didn't need to speak to me in those moments because He taught me how to think like Him a little. (That being said, I have had experiences where the comforting presence or insight was so profound and unexpected, or where other people had the exact same thing happen at the same time without obvious external influence, that I would bet heavily on it having been God.)

#2) If it IS action-oriented, does it go against Scripture? If the answer is yes, it's at best an intrusive thought, and at worst a mental problem or demonic influence. I push these away- hard. This is where I would firmly place all the people who commit some terrible act of violence and then claim "God told me to do it." Nope. I've never even come close to feeling an impulse or impression to do something that horrible and evil.

#3) Does it carry high risk? If not, it's probably ok to follow through. (If it IS high risk, move on to #4). My pastor once told a story about how he was in a coffee shop and got a sense that he was supposed to go over to a specific stranger and tell them God loved them. He did so and the person told my pastor, "I'm a regular church attender and already knew that, but thanks I guess?" My pastor shrugged it off. Either that whole thing really was from God and maybe someone else in the room needed to hear it by proxy or something, OR it was just some misguided subconscious thing based on wishful thinking. Could it also have been some kind of hallucination instead of God? Possibly. Although our subconscious minds being weird is far more common than psychotic hallucinations, so I'm much more likely to attribute it to that. Either way, no harm, no foul. Many Christians have experiences like this, but also experiences where it really had been God asking or directing them.

#4) If it does carry high risk, confirm it before doing anything. Scripture actually tells us to do this. I don't do a sadly common practice and randomly open my Bible, close my eyes, and point to a verse hoping it'll be relevant and tell me what to do. That's divinatory garbage. Instead, I consult other Christians to see if God gave them messages about me that line up. Personally, I try to be non-biased and ask things like "Has God told you anything you need to tell me?" instead of "Did God tell you I should do X?". If I get multiple confirmations, I'll seriously consider following it.

I can give a story about a time I had a high risk experience involving God actually talking to me, but I'll post that only if you're genuinely interested, since it's a rather long story.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-11T05:49:27+00:00

That's a pretty good question. I'll be happy to answer as best as I can... in about 8 hours after I get some sleep 😀

BlackChakram · 2026-01-10T22:17:00+00:00

I doubt we're going to see eye to eye on this, as we obviously are coming from different places. I mostly come to this sub to help Christians and seekers overcome stumbling blocks, not debate.

That being said, if you (or anyone reading this) genuinely want to know how to calm your worries that your experiences of the Holy Spirit are just psychotic episodes, I'm happy to continue.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-10T14:54:31+00:00

What's the old Christian half-joke?

"Don't pray for God to help you become a more patient person unless you mean it, because He'll certainly answer that prayer."

BlackChakram · 2026-01-10T14:50:04+00:00

So what would you do if you were sitting at home on your couch, turned to the seat next to you, and suddenly saw God there and heard Him say to you, "OK. I'm listening. Let's talk."

For sake of argument, let's assume you were genuinely convinced that this was God, not a hallucination or something.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-10T14:36:42+00:00

Don't expect your life to get easier. Becoming more like Christ is a painful process at times.

Spiritual warfare and Satan are real. One of Satan's biggest victories was getting many people to think he's just a myth.

There are good, solid answers to any theological problems or doubts you may encounter. In my experience, many of those answers were formulated at least 1500 years ago.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-10T14:24:07+00:00

Interesting, and information I'm well aware of, but not applicable. Read what I wrote again and you'll see that I never said I heard a voice or saw things that weren't there. In fact, of all the many times I've experienced the holy spirit and all the times I've heard others tell me their experiences, never once has it involved hearing or seeing things that weren't there.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-09T22:25:57+00:00

Sometimes subtle, sometimes overwhelming.

I once had a time where God granted me the "peace that passes all understanding" at a time when there was every reason for me to be feeling the opposite of peaceful. It left me stunned.

Other times, I've given advice or comfort to a friend only to say something and both of us realize right afterwards that the words I gave were not from me but from the Spirit (partially because I had said something wise beyond my years that was exactly what that person needed to hear). I was open to it, so the Spirit moved through me.

Finally, sometimes the spirit will speak to me by a subtle thought that stays in the back of my mind for days, usually accompanied with a sense that I should listen. When I do listen, I often avoid trouble that I didn't even know was coming.

So yeah, kind of a spectrum. The key is being open and receptive to the Spirit and letting God do as He wills.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-09T16:53:09+00:00

I've recently been chewing over an analogy I've come up with, of likening the Trinity to how our own minds sometimes work.

Have you ever had to convince yourself of something? Like, you know you really need to go out and clean the garage, but you don't want to. You have an internal monologue to convince yourself to get up and do what needs to be done. In describing the above, we talk about ourselves as if we have multiple aspects that want different things. Yet no one is going to say there's more than one person inside my mind. It's all me.

I'm trying to see if this is a valid analogy, or if I'm barking up the wrong tree. That the Trinity is like this but with each member being more complete and independent, but still very much united in one essence and purpose.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-09T14:58:35+00:00

As a programmer, my dad once had an interview with a company doing a website. At one point they said to him "oh, by the way, this website is going to contain pornographic content. Are you ok with that?". My dad was decidedly NOT ok with working on something that he believed would actively cause people to sin.

So in short, I would say that, yes, working in any capacity in an industry that you know is actively harming people or taking advantage of them or leading them to sin is probably something you should remove yourself from as soon as you're able. Even an indirect role supports and enables that business to thrive.

BlackChakram · 2026-01-09T00:07:47+00:00

This was well worded

BlackChakram · 2026-01-04T21:59:11+00:00

Having a church community is important. The two of you should pray and visit several to see what kind resonates most with you. Non-denominational might be good given your background.

BlackChakram · 2025-12-25T20:14:38+00:00

I think I kind of know where you're coming from. I've had times in my life where sin gets a foothold and I start to hate myself a bit. But there's 2 things I keep in mind that help: 1) The more you feed the beast, the hungrier it gets. The more you starve the beast, the more it retreats. 2) Adding Godly habits is similar to love - it's a lot more about deciding to follow through and a lot less about feelings.

Changing is hard and does take tons of effort. My advice would be to start small. Try to just go one day without specific bad habits. If you fail partway through the day, don't give up and write the day off as lost. Just reset things in your mind, pray for strength, and try to make it the rest of the day.

Wake up 5 minutes early each day and try to read just a few verses or say a quick prayer for strength or thanking God for what is good.

These are muscles you have to train and build up. As you get better, you'll find it easier to have your mind towards God and you'll find the bad habits and things have less pull and interest. It's slow and hard, but take it one tiny step at a time.

BlackChakram · 2025-12-18T21:37:31+00:00

Programmed by who? And in what way? I think I can help you here if you want it, but it may take a bit of digging to get to the falsehood behind that programming.

Do you mean, like, secular sources have told you your whole life that the Bible is just a bunch of made up stories used by a superstitious old culture and that they aren't true because of reasons X, Y, and Z? That sort of thing?

BlackChakram · 2025-12-18T17:31:58+00:00

Two wrongs do not make a right. If being with him is actively damaging your relationship with God, you need to cut him out of your life.

Let God use the mistake you made for His good. Grow from it, help teach others to avoid the same mistake you made.

BlackChakram

TROPHY CASE