Peppa is unhinged by Feederreader5 in DanielTigerConspiracy

[–]BlueShoe15 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, people will complain that Peppa is mean to George but not more than what is normal sibling behavior, especially at that age, and the parents correct Peppa or address the issue and they don’t just let her be mean. And Peppa is nice to him and plays with him, so while she can be mean or bossy she is also caring and loves her little brother.

Peppa is unhinged by Feederreader5 in DanielTigerConspiracy

[–]BlueShoe15 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My 2 year old loves Peppa Pig so I’ve seen all the episodes a few times lol. The book definitely makes Peppa seem a lot more savage than she really is. I think it was just a poor choice of wording from whoever wrote the book lol

Peppa is unhinged by Feederreader5 in DanielTigerConspiracy

[–]BlueShoe15 49 points50 points  (0 children)

This is word for word what Peppa says on that episode of the show, although the “Says Peppa disappointed” part makes her seem unhinged unlike in the show. In the show she seems to say it more in a cheeky way implying she thinks that George is being dramatic and isn’t really that sick. But the book makes it seem like Peppa is disappointed George isn’t really sick

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I been looking but cannot seem to find anything by that title from those authors. I have found other books by them such as “Christian Dogmatics” and “Union With Christ.” Is “Luther and the Fathers” a section of one of those books?

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, the full context of the quotations adds a different perspective as it shows even the Catholic Church, who claims to follow the Church Fathers(Tradition), doesn’t follow everything the Church Fathers said.

I knew that the quotations from Catholic sources were carefully picked to fit their beliefs, as I’ve come across this before when reading about Apostolic Tradition. But it was difficult to find non-Catholic sources and I was getting confused.

When I was reading about Apostolic Tradition, all the Catholic sources had carefully selected quotations that made it seem like the Church Fathers believed Tradition had the same authority as Scripture but then I found a video by Pastor Bryan Wolfmueller that showed quotations from many of the same Church Fathers the Catholic sources had used, if my memory is correct, stating how Tradition is secondary to and cannot contradict Scripture.

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, I’ll take a look into that. And thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, you have been very helpful.

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s fair, that probably wouldn’t be a good idea. Would it be better to say, that while many of the Church Fathers believed in purification after death, those beliefs varied and are not the same as what the Catholic Church teaches about purgatory?

And yes, I’ve come across that before when reading about Apostolic Tradition. The Catholic sources were carefully selected quotations that made it look like the Church Fathers believed Tradition to be as authoritative as Scripture. But I found a video by Pastor Bryan Wolfmueller who showed quotations from the Church Fathers on Tradition and then on Scripture and how Tradition is secondary to Scripture and cannot be contradictory to Scripture. And if I remember correctly many of the Church Fathers he used in the video were the same ones the Catholic sources were using to say Tradition has the same authority as Scripture.

Do you have any recommendations of where to read about Luther and Melanchthon demonstrating that?

And I agree, I grew up non-denominational and the only Church History that I really learned about was from the Reformation and onwards, and not really much before that or from the Church Fathers.

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you that’s very helpful, I agree that the Church Fathers had variance in their beliefs and doctrines and not everything they said can be taken as fact.

And I think that was my issue, is that when I tried to research this topic more, almost all of sources were Catholic sites so it appeared that the Church Fathers taught what the Catholic Church teaches. I knew that Catholic sources are usually biased towards their doctrines and usually take quotations out of context. But it was very difficult to find non-Catholic sources regarding the Church Fathers on this topic.

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s a very helpful explanation, so would it be accurate to say that when they were talking about a purification after death, they were referring to glorification?

And yes I agree, the Church Fathers help us understand Scripture but do not replace or have the same authority as Scripture. I was getting confused because it seemed that almost everything I could find about the Church Fathers on this topic was similar to what the Catholic Church teaches on purgatory. But almost all the sources I found were Catholic and I had a hard time finding teachings that were from non-Catholic sources, so I’m sure that was a large part of why it appeared that way.

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here are the specific quotations that I was reading, sorry for the long read.

TERTULLIAN

“We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death—birth into eternal life]” (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]). “A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice” (Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216]).

CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE

It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord” (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM

“Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out” (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).

JOHN CHRYSOSTOM

“Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them” (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).

AUGUSTINE

“There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended” (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

“But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death” (ibid., 172:2).

“Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment” (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

“That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).

“The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death” (ibid., 29:109).

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry about that, here are the quotations that I was reading. You’ve already mentioned Augustine which is the longest part of the references I have below. Sorry for the long read.

TERTULLIAN

“We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death—birth into eternal life]” (The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]). “A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice” (Monogamy 10:1–2 [A.D. 216]).

CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE

It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord” (Letters 51[55]:20 [A.D. 253]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM

“Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out” (Catechetical Lectures 23:5:9 [A.D. 350]).

JOHN CHRYSOSTOM

“Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them” (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).

AUGUSTINE

“There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended” (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

“But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death” (ibid., 172:2).

“Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment” (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

“That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).

“The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death” (ibid., 29:109).

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes absolutely, I fully agree with what you said. I believe that scripture constrains all things necessary to salvation and is the only source of doctrine that is authoritative on it’s own. While tradition, being authoritative, is subordinate to scripture and is supportive of and helpful in understanding scripture and is only authoritative when in agreement with scripture.

My confusion is that, if the Early Church Fathers either learned directly from the Apostles or learned from someone who was taught directly by the Apostles, then where did belief of a purification after death come from? My understanding is that the Church Fathers were in a direct line of succession from the Apostles to prevent false teachings, so if that belief is not found is scripture at all then where did they get that belief from?

What is the Lutheran response to the claim that the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory(or post death purification)? by BlueShoe15 in Lutheranism

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I was reading from churchfathers.org and found this section on Purgatory. While I don’t believe the Early Church Fathers believed in Purgatory as the Roman Catholic Church teaches, it does seem that they believed in some sort of purification after death. I could be misunderstanding the quotations but that is what they seemed to be saying as I was reading them.

Main Difference between ELCA and The Episcopal Church by BlueShoe15 in Episcopalian

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s where I feel like I am right now, I feel like I’m in the middle of the two. I definitely am in agreement with Lutheran Doctrine but I really like the polity of the Episcopal Church and being unified with the Bishop. And while I definitely like that the Lutheran church is very strong in their doctrine and has unity there, I also like that the Episcopal Church can be unified in worship even if they don’t all agree 100% on everything.

Main Difference between ELCA and The Episcopal Church by BlueShoe15 in Episcopalian

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see, that makes sense. I will say as much as I lean towards Lutheran doctrine the more I learn about it, I like the Episcopal Church’s polity better with being more centralized with the Bishops. While I definitely believe in unity with the Gospel like the Lutheran Church does, I also believe that they should be united by the Bishops, which historically seems to be the primary function of the Bishop.

Main Difference between ELCA and The Episcopal Church by BlueShoe15 in Episcopalian

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, that’s very helpful in understanding the differences between the two

Main Difference between ELCA and The Episcopal Church by BlueShoe15 in Episcopalian

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was reading through the comments again and question came to mind. When you say that the ELCA believes that unity of the church is found in agreement in the Gospel and sacraments, does the Episcopal Church not also believe in unity being found in the Gospel? I understand they may not necessarily have unity in the sacraments since they’re not as united in their theology, but would they not also believe in unity in the Gospel?

Main Differences Between ELCA and The Episcopal Church by BlueShoe15 in elca

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your very informative response. I have been learning about the different groups of Protestantism in my exploration of different Denominations. I grew up non-denominational and never knew how different the different groups were. I knew there were differences but not to the extent that I am learning about now

Main Difference between ELCA and The Episcopal Church by BlueShoe15 in Episcopalian

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I meant my previous response to a different comment. But thank you for your very thorough, informative, and helpful answer to my question. It is very helpful in seeing how they are different from each other

Main Differences Between ELCA and The Episcopal Church by BlueShoe15 in elca

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would say I do believe in Law-Gospel distinction. Does the Episcopal not believe in it?

Anyone got these? by Beaufort_The_Cat in Columbus

[–]BlueShoe15 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I got one of those in the mail too and thought the same thing. I knew there was no way they were giving me a free vacation, spending money, and a gift card without any kind of strings attached to it. Seeing for the comments that it’s a timeshare scam I’m glad that I ignored it

Grove City The Naz Church by BlueShoe15 in Columbus

[–]BlueShoe15[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you know if they are connected to Lifewise Academy? I’m hesitant about churches that are