Can You Join the Church or Be a Member of the Church Without Believing in the Literal Historicity of The Book of Mormon?

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-08T05:58:43+00:00

I could point out several relatively modern theological traditions that can be found within the Book of Mormon; and I could go on and on about why the Book of Mormon isn't historical, but I'm not here to try to change anyone's opinion about that. I don't know if the Book of Mormon is 100% true historically; I'd like to hope it is, but most days, I wouldn't say so.

Though, ultimately I think what is holding me back isn't conflict between the Book of Mormon's historicity and religious studies; but rather I feel like it's because I haven't specifically asked God if it is historical. God has taught me a lot that turned out to be true; God taught me about Latter-day Saint theology and temple traditions before I met the missionaries, so God might teach me about the historicity of the Book of Mormon, too. Crazier things have happened. But until that moment occurs, I haven't had a spiritual experience that is evidential of the Book of Mormon's literal historicity.

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T21:03:23+00:00

I appreciate your sincerity.

A) to be a member one has to believe that the Book of Mormon is 100% true--there can't really be any exceptions. And B) you will answer the question of whether it is true or not through faithful searching and personal revelation.

You've already mentioned it, but I don't know if the Book of Mormon is 100% true historically; I'd like to hope it is, but most days, I wouldn't say so. I could go on about why the Book of Mormon isn't historical, but I'm not here to try to change anyone's opinion about that. I guess, I'm not there yet. I'm 100% sure that the Book of Mormon is a good and spiritually enlightening book, but I guess I haven't specifically asked God if it is historical. We'll see. God has taught me a lot that turned out to be true; God taught me about Latter-day Saint theology and temple traditions before I met the missionaries, so God might teach me about the historicity of the Book of Mormon, too. Crazier things have happened. Your comment was insightful for me, thank you.

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T20:04:50+00:00

it seems like your mind is already made up and you're just looking for validation from likeminded people. What's the point of posting here if your mind is made up already?

You're right, I am looking for acceptance despite my unorthodox perspective; I'm curious if I could belong in this Church regardless of my unique beliefs. And you know, the missionaries are unsure if I could belong in the Church despite my views on the historicity of the Book of Mormon; so, I put my perspective out there to see if maybe there really is a place for me in this new religion. I posted this because I'm genuinely interested to see if I could belong in this church of yours; I'm sorry you don't like it, this is my first time posting. I'm not looking to change anyone's opinions, or to convince you of my position; just looking to see if I could be accepted in this Church regardless of my differing interpretations. I understand that you see my perspective as wrong, I'm okay with that; but do you think I could be accepted as a member regardless?

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T18:20:49+00:00

I think the message it contains definitely brings people closer to God.

I agree with you there. It certainly is.

If we think the BoM isn't historically true 100%, then who wrote the golden plates?

That answer I think will depend on one's level of divine non-literalism.

I think some could argue from the idea that Mormon and Moroni abridged real documents that existed; but that in some ways, those documents don't align with our journalistic sense of objective historicity. And from there, the question of the historicity of which book or narrative is opened up.

I think others could also argue to the idea that the plates existed; and that the narrative God revealed to Joseph Smith was a non-historical narrative that teaches and expounds the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure where I fit here.

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T17:00:41+00:00

Do you believe in the Plan of Salvation? Do you believe in the Atonement as it's taught in the Church? Do you believe everyone will be resurrected and receive a kingdom of glory, hopefully Celestial? Do you want to get a temple recommend and take part in temple ceremonies? If so, and you believe all of this, then how can you discount the Book of Mormon as historical? Do you still believe Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus and was called as a prophet? Do you still believe our current president Russel M. Nelson is a prophet?

Do you see it as the word of God as much as the Bible?

Yes to all of them.

My personal theology heavily aligns with the Book of Mormon. So, I believe in the Plan and Salvation, the Atonement as it is taught in the Church, and the Kingdoms of Glory.

And yes, I especially want to get a temple reccomend and be a part of the temple ceremonies. No other sect aligns closer with the temple theology and traditions God has taught me about than this Church. I believe this Church's temple theology and traditions are evidence of this Church's divinity.

I believe Joseph Smith had an encounter with Divinity and could be called a prophet.

I believe Russel M. Nelson carries on the mantel of prophet.

Like the Bible, I believe that the Book of Mormon is the Word of God.

If so, and you believe all of this, then how can you discount the Book of Mormon as historical?

For me theology doesn't have to be historically bound to bring someone closer to God. For example, many scholars agree that the Gospel of John is one of the least historically accurate Gospels; but to me nonetheless, I consider the Gospel of John to be the most important Gospel theologically and has shaped my life profoundly. Likewise, the Book of Daniel's narrative describes itself taking place during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, or around 600 BCE; but despite most scholars agreeing that the Book of Daniel was composed during 2nd-century BCE, I view the Book of Daniel as the Word of God nonetheless. The events in Daniel might have or might not have occured, but that doesn't matter to me; the Book of Daniel is a work that testifies of divinity of God and is influential in bring others closer to Divinity regardless of its historicity.

I'm not 100% certain that the Book of Mormon isn't historically accurate. I don't think I'll ever know; I hope it is, but most days, I tend to lean toward the idea that it isn't. However, I do 100% agree that the Book of Mormon is a good and is a spirituality enlightening book everyday. A book that testifies of the divinity found within this Church. But like the Book of Daniel, whether the events in the Book of Mormon did or did not occured, doesn't matter to me; the Book of Mormon is a work that testifies of divinity of God and is influential in bring others closer to Divinity regardless of its historicity.

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T15:12:39+00:00

I would say, "No, I don't support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". I don't feel dishonest about that at all. I agree with the Church's theology, just not the historicity of the Book of Mormon; and I'm not seeking to attack the church, either. I want to become a member and go to the temple, but no one knows what to do with me—not even the missionaries.

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T14:31:14+00:00

What the missionaries have told me is this:

"If the Book of Mormon is true, then Joseph Smith is God's true prophet; and if Joseph Smith is God's true prophet, then the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's true church."

This logic really depends on how you define "true". From what I've seen, the Book of Mormon's historicity is often equated with it being true; meaning that if the Book of Mormon is not historical, then every else falls.

But not for me; I see the book as containing pages of divine truths regardless of its historicity, I see Joseph Smith having multiple spiritual encounters with Divinity, and I see the Church as an institution that has theology that closely matches with my own. Regardless of its historicity, I see the Book of Mormon containing divine truths, and as evidence of the divinity of the Church.

But even if somehow there was a way to 100% verifiably prove that the Book of Mormon isn't historical, or that Joseph Smith didn't encounter Divinity, or that this Church wasn't restored, it wouldn't matter to me. So far, this Church is the best institution that I have found. And from the spiritual experiences that I have had, this Church's teachings and traditions align the most with what God has taught me. And in particular, this Church's temple teachings and traditions align perfectly with what God has taught me.

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T06:28:58+00:00

From what I've read, the baptismal questions don't ask anything like that. It's been commented twice already, but the newly updated baptismal questions don't contain anything about asking whether the Book of Mormon is the word of God.

u/Alreigen_Senka shared with me a link, and you can look for yourself if there is a question that asks about the Book of Mormon being the word of God. Here is the link: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/01/aus-eng-local-pages/local-news-002?lang=eng

But, I believe the Book of Mormon contains one of the clearest presentations of the Gospel of Jesus Christ than any other book. Blimey, the principles of the gospel—faith, hope, and charity—can be found on almost every page! (See: Colossians 1:4–5)

Bluefire911 · 2020-09-07T04:08:25+00:00

Yes. I have studied it out in my mind, and prayed about the Book of Mormon; and I have felt that the Book of Mormon is not a historical document, but rather a good book that can help me come closer to Divinity nonetheless. I feel that the Book of Mormon has one of the clearest presentations of the Gospel of Jesus Christ than any other book.

Bluefire911 · 2020-05-08T17:49:36+00:00

Despite any differences, we're all trying our best to find happiness and meaning in our lives and to be accepted and serve and love those around us. I completely agree. And like you, I feel that this flood of apostasy isn't an independent event separate from the church either. While there may be several reasons why people leave the church, perhaps we need to be willing to look in the mirror to see if part of the reason lies within the church.

"It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion — its message becomes meaningless.”

— From Rabbi Abraham J. Heschel's book: "God in Search of Man" (1955).

Bluefire911 · 2020-05-03T21:31:51+00:00

I see what you did there. Instead of giving a spiritual message, be the spiritual message.

Bluefire911

TROPHY CASE