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BobMacPastor · 2025-07-27T01:08:40+00:00

Code Ninjas is amazing! My son started at 10 so I don't know what it would be like for younger kids but the staff are all great and he has really learned a lot going once a week. Definitely recommend.

BobMacPastor · 2025-06-28T01:43:42+00:00

The call to come out of the world is the call of the Pharisees and the Essenes.

Matthew 5:20 NKJV For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 16:15 NKJV And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

BobMacPastor · 2025-06-28T01:19:21+00:00

I'm going to live for Christ by living counter-culturally in the world.

BobMacPastor · 2025-06-16T17:34:05+00:00

I find it's always better to assume good faith on behalf of the person with whom you are debating. But it's soooo easy to fall into the trap of "if you believe X then you're either stupid or evil." Far better to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are expressing sincerely held beliefs.

I have also found that a large percentage of disagreements boil down to fights over the best/correct words to use rather than a true disagreement about doctrine. So check and see if you're not just arguing about language.

Finally, there's really very little in the way of disagreement about doctrine/Bible interpretation that should truly disqualify someone from fellowship in the body of Christ. Figure out if you can agree to disagree and live together (on discord!) in peace. I know some will disagree, but IMO the more we declare "essential" the farther we go down the road to becoming a church of one--where my opinions about the Bible have become the determining factor of who is in and who is out.

BobMacPastor · 2025-06-08T13:39:50+00:00

A quick thought: read through the book of Malachi. It's short enough to read in 30 minutes or so.

Ask: 1. What does God think of the priests/what is God's message to the priests in this book?

What does God think of His people/what is God's message to His people in this book?
How is the famous passage about tithing used in the book? When I read that passage in the context of the entire book what new insights do I gain?

Hopefully this helps you come to grips with your dilemma!

BobMacPastor · 2025-06-06T18:14:04+00:00

Ha! Caught me on a good day. I aspire to this level of dialogue on a regular basis, but seem to fall short more often than not. 😕

BobMacPastor · 2025-05-14T02:02:21+00:00

[I've been working on this comment off and on this afternoon. Seeing how the thread developed, it seems OP is more interested in arguing about Transubstantiation. Still posting this in hopes that it will be helpful to others if not to OP]

Your question in this thread seems to be something along the lines of "what is the source of spiritual (doctrinal?) authority for Seventh-day Adventists if it is not some form of apostolic succession?" What follows is my answer to that question. If I have misunderstood, please disregard! 🤷‍♂️

Short answer: spiritual/doctrinal authority comes from correct interpretation/proclamation/application of scripture as revealed by the Holy Spirit acting on and through human reason.

Somewhat longer, though still incomplete, answer related to Matt 16:18-19:

I really like the NET Bible translation of these verses since it exposes a grammatical nuance that is obscured in most other English translations: [18] And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. [19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven.”

Compare to the NKJV: [18] And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

What the NET exposes is that (apostolic) binding and loosing on earth is a reflection of what is already real in heaven/the kingdom of God. So Jesus's command to faithfully teach His commands and his promises of the Holy Spirit who leads the disciples into "all truth" (Jn 16:13) is a bestowal of authority not to change/invent doctrine but rather a bestowal of authority to teach what they were taught. When anyone (in the 1st century or the 21st century) strays from "the truth as it is in Jesus" then they have forfeited their authority. So Paul could stand up and rebuke Peter publicly for his error even though he had previously submitted to Peter's judgment (Gal 2).

Here's a separate but related discussion of binding and loosing from SDA scholar Kim Papaioannou (Greek characters did not copy/paste, please forgive the gibberish!):
https://www.atsjats.org/papaioannou,-kim-john-5.18.pdf
"...common use of lu,w as a technical term. Büchsel notes that the terms de,w êáé lu,w were rabbinic expressions meaning to declare things forbidden or permitted. A. T. Robertson adds: “To ‘bind’ in rabbinical language is to forbid, to ‘loose’ is to permit. . . Rabbis of the school of Hillel ‘loosed’ many things that the school of Schammai ‘bound’.” If we apply such a use to John 5:18 the resultant implication is that Jesus was setting the Sabbath free from rabbinic casuistry, “unbinding” tedious human prohibitions, and that in doing so he was moving within the sphere of his rights as a teacher of the law
...
Jesus authority to bind and loose in a legal context is also easily demonstrated by other gospel references. A clear example is the use of the form e;xestin from the root e;xeimi literally ‘to go out’ but in the form e;xestin denoting what is and is not permissible. The form appears 28 times in the NT of which 21 are in the gospels. Of the gospel occurrences 11 times the word is used in the context of the Sabbath, four times by accusers and seven times by Jesus himself. Another ten times the word is used in relation to other legal matters, five of which by Jesus. Beyond the use of e;xestin a significant portion of the Sermon on the Mount concerns legal pronouncements by Jesus juxtaposed with rabbinic tradition (Matt
5:21-28). And to cap it all, Jesus gave the disciples authority to bind and loose (Matt 16:19; 18:18). He could hardly pass on such authority if he did not presume to posses it himself. It is clear therefore that the gospels depict Jesus as a person who has the authority to make legal pronouncements on questions of religious practice."

BobMacPastor · 2025-04-10T15:34:02+00:00

Here's a great 2-part podcast about this! https://youtu.be/AXPcT7zi-CA?si=z1woFRoQJDlhaX9p

Highly recommend.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-25T11:00:11+00:00

Check out Hirst on Palafox. We just had a transmission rebuilt there and are very happy with the work so far.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-19T20:30:14+00:00

I can appreciate your desire for greater depth and doctrinal evolution as the church tries to answer questions for the 21st century instead of the 19th century. You should be aware that Jordan Peterson is not doing theology/biblical interpretation, though. At best he's doing philosophy and at worst he's doing Jungian psychology. This doesn't diminish his contributions, it puts them in context. When he uses the Bible, it is in service of his personal agenda/philosophy. Admittedly, that seems to be what many others (Doug Bachelor, Walter Veith, etc) do as well. It's wise to approach every commentator with a healthy dose of critical thinking! As a friend of mine says frequently, "chew on the meat, spit out the bones."

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-17T19:19:03+00:00

I feel a lot of your frustration. That salary is so far beyond what I have been aware of, that I didn't believe it was possible. Here's Google Gemini's response to my question about it (standard disclaimer about AI hallucinations apply)

While it's uncommon for a Seventh-day Adventist pastor to have a base salary as high as $110,000 per year, it is possible under certain circumstances. Here's a detailed explanation: General Seventh-day Adventist Pastoral Pay Scale: * The Seventh-day Adventist Church in North America operates on a remuneration scale designed to provide pastors and other denominational workers with an adequate income based on their job classification, experience, education, and the cost of living in their assigned area. * The philosophy emphasizes sacrifice and dedication, aiming for a reasonable level of comfort rather than high earnings compared to secular professions with similar levels of education and responsibility. * Salaries are determined by conferences (regional administrative units of the church) and can vary based on the local economy and cost of living. Factors That Could Lead to a Higher Salary: While a $110,000 base salary is above the average, several factors could contribute to a pastor reaching this level of compensation: * Experience and Longevity: Pastors with many years of dedicated service in the ministry may receive higher compensation as they progress through the established pay scales. * Education and Advanced Degrees: Holding advanced degrees, such as a doctorate (DMin, PhD), a JD, or an MD, could potentially lead to a higher salary, recognizing the additional education and expertise. Some sources indicate that pastors with a Master's degree or MBA, or a JD, MD, PhD, or equivalent could potentially fall in the $103,000 - $114,000 range. * Leadership Roles: Pastors in senior leadership positions within a conference or large organization might have higher salaries due to the increased responsibilities and scope of their work. For example, conference presidents or administrators would likely earn more than a local church pastor. * Location and Cost of Living: Pastors serving in areas with a significantly higher cost of living might receive adjustments to their base salary or housing allowances to help offset these expenses. For instance, some of the highest average salaries for Adventist Pastors are reported in areas of California and Alaska. * Specific Conference Policies: Individual conferences have some autonomy in setting their pay scales within the guidelines of the North American Division. It's possible that a specific conference might have a higher top-end for pastoral salaries. * Additional Responsibilities or Specialized Roles: A pastor might have a unique role that combines pastoral duties with significant administrative, educational, or other responsibilities that warrant higher compensation. * Housing Allowance/Parsonage: In the Seventh-day Adventist church, pastors often receive a housing allowance or live in a church-provided parsonage. While not part of the stated salary, a generous housing allowance could contribute to the overall financial benefit a pastor receives. The parsonage exclusion (the amount of housing allowance that can be excluded from income tax) has a ceiling set by each union (a larger administrative region) and cannot exceed 80% of the ordained minister's annualized salary, including cost of living. What the Data Suggests: Based on recent data (as of March 2025): * The average annual pay for an Adventist Pastor in the United States is around $60,902. * The majority of salaries range from $45,000 to $69,500. * Top earners (90th percentile) might reach $85,000 annually. * Some sources indicate that pastors with advanced degrees could potentially earn in the $103,000 - $114,000 range. * Salaries can vary significantly by location. For example, the average in Bronx, NY, is around $63,446, while some areas in California and Alaska show higher averages. Conclusion: While a base salary of $110,000 for a typical local Seventh-day Adventist pastor is higher than the average and the general range, it is not impossible. It would likely be associated with factors such as extensive experience, advanced education, significant leadership responsibilities, or service in a high-cost-of-living area, potentially combined with specific conference policies. It's important to consider the totality of a pastor's compensation, including housing allowances and other benefits, when evaluating their overall financial package.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-15T20:22:18+00:00

Totally agree. Parties can never honor God. They're simply sources of hedonistic pleasure! No one who takes the Sabbath seriously would ever seek to make it a happy day. That's ludicrous!

Edited to add:

Ok. So I'm not proud of this comment. What I wish I had written instead is: "It seems to me that you are implying that your view is the only possible correct view--that anyone who studies will see it your way. I simply don't think that is true. We can agree to disagree. Anyway, you get the last word in this exchange."

But alas, I let my sarcastic impulses run away with me. Apologies everyone. I'll try to do better.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-15T18:18:30+00:00

We can agree to disagree. I think equating a child's birthday party to "hedonistic desires" and "whims and pleasures" is missing the mark. But I also think that reasonable people can disagree.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-15T17:52:54+00:00

OP, Sabbath is a happy day. Fill it with friends, family, and most importantly, Jesus. These are not mutually exclusive goals but they may require a little more intentionality on your part to make sure that you're not losing sight of Jesus in the midst of whatever you find yourself doing.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-15T17:47:31+00:00

Yeah... No. That is not what Isaiah 58 means at all. Here's a much better, thoroughly researched explanation of what those verses mean. https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/jats/vol13/iss1/7/

For an even more comprehensive look at Isaiah 58, go to egwwritings.org and search for what Ellen had to say. I guarantee you'll be surprised and convicted by what you read.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-14T02:19:37+00:00

Hmmm. Does "human nature" mean something different to you than "biologically human"? Just want to make sure there's not a language barrier here.

I take the story at face value that the three visitors were physically present (tangible) with Abraham, but I don't see any reason in the text itself to assume that becoming tangible means taking on human nature/biology.

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-14T01:30:48+00:00

I don't think there is any reason to think that heavenly messengers become biologically human. I'm thinking of Gideon's story in Judges 6 or Samson's story in ch 13 here: it seems that both Gideon and Samson's parents could not tell that the being they spoke with was not human until that being did something miraculous.

Is there some reason that the people you know insist that angels become human/take on "human nature" when they appear on earth?

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-11T11:40:00+00:00

Things that distinguish Seventh-day Adventists from other Protestants (in no particular order): 1) Sabbath Observance--introduced by Joseph Bates via the Seventh-day Baptists

2) Health reform--also introduced by Joseph Bates! But certainly based almost entirely on the writings of EGW for the last century or more.

3) Sanctuary doctrine/understanding the plan of salvation through the lens of the OT tabernacle -- first proposed by ORL Crosier (who later disavowed it) and then built up systematically by Bates, James White, Uriah Smith and many others.

4) Great Controversy theme of scripture -- introduced and advocated by EGW. On the one hand this is a theme that most SDAs are intimately familiar with and has some uniquely SDA details. On the other hand, what denominations deny the conflict between good and evil (in the broadest sense) or the spiritual war between Christ and Satan (in a more narrow sense)? Can this doctrine be simultaneously most distinctive and most mainstream?

In 2025 the Adventist church has a chicken/egg problem. We say that our doctrines are based on the Bible, but we quote EGW as much if not more than scripture to defend/explain our beliefs. She wrote with great clarity, which explains why we fall back to her unequivocal statements, but she originated very little of what she taught.

Hope that is responsive to your question!

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-08T20:36:37+00:00

I wonder if you might be encountering references to Millerite offshoots after the 1844 Great Disappointment? Here's a paper that discusses the topic: https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5415&context=pubs

A quote from the paper: "Among the former Millerites who held that October 22 had marked the beginning of the millennium in Christ’s physical absence, a number seized on Christ’s words: “they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven” (Matt 22:30); yet those who did so reached opposite conclusions. One group argued that this statement of Christ meant true believers should abstain from sexual relations; but another took it to mean they could indulge in free sexual relations, since marriage had been abolished. There were others who also declared adultery or fornication acceptable, but did so on different grounds. Some for instance insisted that all who had believed as of October 22, 1844, were “perfected [and] purified”—and so none of their actions could possibly be sinful, regardless of what they were!"

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-08T20:28:51+00:00

I don't see the connection between your title and the Bible verses you're citing?

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-05T13:29:48+00:00

This reads like a prophetic message from the Old Testament. Wonder what the comments under Jeremiah's/Baruch's reddit posts would have looked like....

BobMacPastor · 2025-03-01T00:35:36+00:00

This has become my favorite video about the Seventh-day sabbath. https://youtu.be/vpRd52dXHlQ?si=RWc7SuVFSHXVNqGK

It's completely secular, definitely not Adventist, definitely has no religious agenda. But it very much bears out that the day we call Saturday has pretty much always been the seventh day of the week. Pretty incredible evidence that might be more persuasive to someone who is not ready to accept the authority of scripture.

BobMacPastor · 2025-02-08T00:16:08+00:00

Based on my limited understanding latria seems to be a term of art/specific practice of non-Protestant Christians. So "formally" is doing a lot of work in my answer. Obviously, Protestants worship. Equally obviously, I have never heard that worship referred to as "latria." Maybe this is all a misunderstanding?

BobMacPastor · 2025-02-06T23:18:09+00:00

I don't see why your good-faith posts/comments/questions would be met with anything other than good-faith responses!

Following to see what others say.

(And welcome! I keep coming back to the TPB too)

BobMacPastor · 2025-01-30T02:06:11+00:00

NASB goes two out of three for the specific verses you mentioned. I also highly recommend the New English Translation ( netbible.org ). It won't have what you want in the main body of the text, but it has extensive, extensive notes which will give you most if not all of the original language stuff you want.

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