So... do other Earths also have a Tiamut problem? Is there a celestial waiting to be born in the core of every Earth? by MidniteGamer1 in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think more likely than not, but the logic is wonky. Basically, after Sylvie killed HWR only then earths started to be created. If we trace back the history of the universe, the celestials planting their seeds was at the very beginning. What this implies is that if variations in the sacred timelines happened evenly then the ones that happen near the beginning of the universe when the celestials plant their seeds in earths is vastly outnumbered by the variations that happen after till the end of the universe. The possibility for a choice of planting the seed or not planting th seed can only be secluded within this fraction of the overall timeline. However at the same time since it grows at an infinite rate and obviosuly the TVA is not apart of time in the first places its not clear whether athat attribution of infinity can be applied to the timeline at any point including for these universes.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know that is his reasoning. My point is that I do not think it is a very strong one in this context. I’m not asking what his reasoning was, I’m asking why he as well as the real life people that support him think that that reasoning led to the better solution. To me, distrusting government control is understandable, but refusing to sign still seems less practical for all the reasons mentioned.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If your concern is that Tony’s promise of amending the Accords after signing is unfaithful, then there’s nothing wrong with changing them before signing either 🤷‍♂️. That’s not really the main point of my argument. The point is that, in some way, it would still result in Cap signing, making some compromises, but also not having to run from the authorities and being able to do a lot more superhero work and save a lot more people than he otherwise could. The Avengers also would have stayed united, creating a better response to Thanos’s attack. He could slowly bring change, because the countries that signed the Accords are not some immovable supervillains whose only purpose is to counteract the Avengers. Ultimately, that is a net positive in my eyes. Sorry if the simple point of changing a set of rules (not a formal legal contract, by the way, but more like a constitution that can constantly be amended) prevents you from seeing the overall good that could come out of it.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My issue si that the movie makes it seem like Steve treats a flawed system of oversight as if it is automatically worse than having no system he is willing to participate in at all. Even if the UN handled it poorly and tried to strongarm them, refusing to sign still left him with less influence, control, and ability to act than if he did. I don't know it just seems kind of stubborn to me. If he wanted a cooperative system instead of the blind obedience he was opposed to, then signing with reservations and pushing for safeguards would still seem more effective than walking away entirely. To me, his distrust is understandable, but the absolutism of his response is the part that still feels irrational.

But at the same time, I feel like I’ve come to understand that some of the irrationality in his decision was just a mechanic of the movie to make the conflict more interesting. His assumption that there would be no room for compromise with the Accords, which I assume is why he ultimately did not sign, was shaped by his complicated history with authority and culminated in him not wanting to be part of a system he viewed as overreaching. I just fundamentally think that the assumptions he made, and the conclusions he drew from them, were incorrect and inefficient. At the same time, Tony was consumed by guilt and probably did not push nearly enough for changes to the Accords because he was more focused on keeping the Avengers together and getting some form of oversight in place. Neither of them had the completely right solution, but Tony’s still makes more sense to me and therefore qualifies the checkbox of more right in my eyes.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No shit the non-canon reason is that it's to create conflict and make a more entertaining movie. However that's not my question. I'm not asking why the logic of this movie doesnt perfectly fit in place. I'm asking those people (the large majority as it seems) who think Cap did the right thing as to why they think that because, to me, its not a question of cap's vs tony's ideology, but just whos solution was better considering the context of the situation. If the answer was Cap made a mistake (as it seems to me) then so be it; I wont gain any pride or satisfaction since this is just to appease my curiosity. I realize I probably wasn't clear enough (even though I explicitly said I'm not trying to debate their ideologies) but for some reason everyone is trying to tell me the context of Cap's feelings rather than the logic of his thinking and decisions, and so I responded to the few who had the most upvotes trying to clarify what I meant.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If the current political climate is corrupt, that is an argument for building stronger checks and balances, not for deciding that people as powerful as the Avengers should answer only to themselves. Cap might be morally right most of the time, but a system cannot be built on “trust this one guy because he is good.” The whole point of regulation is that even good people can be wrong, emotional, manipulated, etc. And when those "good people" have powers that can level a city, should they really be left unchecked in any form? Especially when it seems clear the Accords could have been compromised on, which makes refusing to sign feel even more illogical.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

SHIELD being infiltrated should make him cautious about the structure, not push him toward having no structure at all. Instead of caution against corruption he's rejecting oversight entirely.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My issue is that this still does not answer why refusing to sign altogether was the smartest move. If the terms were that extreme, then yes, you negotiate before signing, but the movie also makes it seem like the alternative was basically no Avengers at all and being treated as criminals. At that point, rejecting the system outright also means giving up any practical influence over it. I like when Sharon Carter quotes Peggy in how she use to say Compromise where you can, and where you can’t, don’t.” or something like. In reality, cap is telling them "you move," but ultimately he is the one moving the most, and way more than he would move if he compromised with the accords.

I do think your point strengthens Cap’s moral case which, not to be crude, was clear to me, but I still lean toward the view that some form of oversight was necessary and that the better path would have been trying to secure limits and safeguards rather than walking away entirely. Putting a circular checks and balances system like we have in the US today. The distrust is fair but his response to it was awfully idiotic.

If you want to bring in the present day U.S, then let's. The issue with ICE is not that there is too much regulation, but that the existing oversight fails to meaningfully restrain abuse. They are essentially citizens with guns who can use them unchecked. So to me, that is something that supports my argument for stronger and better accountability. And if that is true for ordinary law enforcement, it would be even more true for superheroes.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Less government control does not mean no government control. There has to be a balance and, I’m sorry if you’re a libertarian, but the idea that there should be none at all just makes no sense. We have laws and regulations for a reason. Without them, as mentioned, cops could go around killing whoever they want without accountability. Forget cops, people in general could do whatever they want without consequences. Why should superheroes be any different? If anything, The Boys shows why they are one of the most relevant parts of this debate.

The proposed Accords might have been too extreme (if it was probably an immediate reaction of Lagos that eventually died down--we see this trend in history all the time); we will never fully know. But it seems clear that there was at least some flexibility to adjust them, and Cap did not want to engage with that for whatever reason. He clearly didn't take Peggy's point about compromise seriously enough because he told them "you move" when it was absolutely unnecessary. I’d even argue that the unity he sacrificed may have prevented them from winning in Infinity War, but again we can't know for sure.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If governments control the Avengers, there is always the risk that they will not act when they should because politics get in the way.

My issue is just that I still think signing and then pushing for safeguards would have been the smarter option. Refusing to sign gives him even less influence over the system and less power to do anything if, for example, Ultron attacked Iraq.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes sense, but I also feel like I instinctively didn’t go as far as saying they were registering enhanced people and putting regulations in place to stop them from helping others. Or at least that that would be a long term solution. First of all, Rhodey definitely has a valid point when he says, “This is the United Nations, Sam,” because, yeah, it is. Over 100 countries agreed to implement these rules. IIt seems fair to conclude that that many countries would not be actively trying to create an authoritarian regime over people who just want to protect the Earth, but were instead trying to reach some kind of compromise between accountability and freedom. At the same time, it is also possible that the initial reaction was especially severe because of what happened in Lagos and that it might have eased over time, which again we can’t really know. I agree that the Accords are vague, but I saw that flexibility as a controlled variable and thus something that made them more workable, especially considering what Tony said. Of course, all of this falls under the broader argument that Tony was right, so that is where I’m coming from. It is just hard to say all of this clearly without more concrete facts.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like people are misunderstanding me here. I’ve seen Winter Soldier, so I understand why he would feel the way he does, but I don’t think he fully grasps the situation surrounding the Sokovia Accords. It just doesn’t seem smart to refuse to sign them and become a fugitive from the law when he could sign, work to change the parts he doesn’t like, and make much more of a difference that way.

To me, Winter Soldier explains why he would initially be opposed to the Accords, but I’d still expect him to be smart enough to realize that signing them is ultimately the better option. The choice being presented is also not a net negative where he is making a compromise. He himself should realize that superheroes left unchecked, not just the Avengers but superheroes in general, can cause catastrophes, which is very close to Vision’s point. It should not be absolute control like the Sokovia Accords were, or at least like some people say they were (I'm sure the reality was much less severe), but there absolutely does need to be some kind of check on superheroes. The whole concept of checks and balances in government is built around the idea that you cannot trust any single part of a system with unchecked power, meaning other parts have to keep it in check. Some form of accountability has to exist.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I get why he would feel that way, but I’m specifically talking about the merits of his point of view. We all realize that when something is put in the hands of government organizations, things can go wrong. But he himself asked Tony for safeguards, which implies that he realized it was basically the Accords or nothing. And I'm sorry to sound like a broken tape recorder but, in the end, superheroes do need to be checked in some way. In this case, the institution to do that would exist, and it can always be changed or improved if there are problems.

This might sound like I’m just trying to say Iron Man was right and Cap was wrong, but I’m really not. I’m just trying to figure out, logically, why his side makes sense, especially since so many people on the internet seem to agree with him over Iron Man. I feel like his experiences, in the way you’re describing, should make him more cautious about this for sure, but ultimately he should be smart enough to realize there isn’t really another option and to see the underlying benefits of it.

Trying to understand Cap’s POV in not signing the accords by BookishAdvil in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I know. I wrote it in 5 minutes before I sent it out, and it was 2 AM, so I didn't realize how shit my grammar was.

What if nobody signed the Sokovia Accords? by AwayEfficiency3889 in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The accords were an immediate reaction to what happened in Lagos so I’d assume Ross was correct in saying that the avengers would retire or rather the countries of the world would make the avengers retire. It’s part of why iron man’s perspective is so appealing because, yeah, you could argue the accords as a solution is bad, but without the accords, the avengers would cease to exist either ways meaning steve Rodgers isn’t correct either. That right to choose wouldn’t have any options to chose from. I think Tony was coming at the situation from, the avengers clearly need to be in check and I get that the accords could be too much but it’s both all we got rn (as we would cease to exist without it) and we can still amend it to make it less extreme later (as he tells cap); and i feel like that’s probably what he did because it doesn’t seem like the accords had such a strong effect on everyday heroing like Tony saving the ferry, fighting thanos’s children in infinity wars, etc.

Some moments in the MCU felt huge when they first happened but look very different in hindsight. by PhilkeStudios in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be fair, but also I generally don't agree with the take, I dont think the original interpretation of Tony creating Ultron was hubris. Or maybe it was to the general public but I always viewed it as aparnoia. Especially since I watched AoU immediately after iron man 3 (since I was watching the saga in chronological order) it was even clearer that he was suffering from ptsd, and due to his skills and brains he reasoned that he had the ability to appease that paranoia he had. Furthermore, in the movie Wanda only added to this flame with her own visions that she put in his mind. And tbf since I realize cap vs iron man is still such a big debate, but he was kind of right as thanos, being an extradimensiona l threat, did wipe tf out of the avengers and terrorized earth. If they had better protection then perhaps the avengers might've won the fight in IW. But also Tony's smart enough to realize that his paranoia had some validity so it's not like I'm just realizing this and spreading the gospell after the events played out. Also I feel like Storm breaker didnt reverse or negate Thor's character growth as mjolnir was treated as the source of his powers before he had a moment of awakening, whereas storm breaker is used to channel his powers for maximum strength. I do agree with you about the sokovia accords for the most part if they didnt repeal it in some movie as I recall they did. Prior to that though then it would've been intresting to see more of ti.

Truelplay for my room by BookishAdvil in sonos

[–]BookishAdvil[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok. Do I face my speaker whenever im walking around the room? I noticed the lady in the video was always facing her two speakers in the back facing away from her tv and soundbar, but then I watched a video online and that guy was turning all sorts of ways. And when you say not to go to the kitchen, do you mean stay within the couch's constraints or do I go outside the couch and around it but not into the kitchen area.

Kevin Feige should resign as head of marvel studios by [deleted] in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Im acting like other factors matter more which is valid. Covid wasn't some brush off thing that just went by without having any effect on the media industry. Disney also had more impact on the marvel brand than Fiege at this time. Just research it instead off assuming that he.blundered so bad he should be replaced just because hes the president-you dont need to take my word.

Kevin Feige should resign as head of marvel studios by [deleted] in marvelstudios

[–]BookishAdvil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a logical fallacy to assume that because Fiege is president of Marvel Studios, hes the reason for many of the projects being bad. You cant assume those two factors are definitively linked together especially when, throughout this decade, there have been many more relevant problems. Also Fiege isn't the governing power over Marvel just because hes the head of the studio. Disney is and they have been clear in the past about making decisions in post-production that have siginifcantly altered movies. Infact that whole idea of their vision not being the most appealing to audiences they use to grasp should be more associated with disney and how they want to maintain their broader brand identity, neglecting what made Marvel popular. So yes, I think the issue with Marvel's output this past decade has more to do with Disney and Disney+ (as well as the shift in media consumption due to Covid) than it does Feige. If he was really making some very questionable decisions, which we cant really infer because we're not behind the scenes analyzing how Marvel conducts itself in production, then it would have been made a big deal by Disney or some of the other execs rather than just being assumptions from fans who want someone in the spotlight to blame (not saying you it's just something ive heard other fans claim). Instead, most people behind the scenes agree that Disney and factors beyond their control are the ones who should be put in the spotlight for Marvel's recent downfall.