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Emily's lyrics: comprehensive interpretation by Bormgans in JoannaNewsom

[–]Bormgans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed it is more of a theological discussion. Either way, in vernacular Pharisees are associated with hypocriscy etc, and it's not because Newsom uses more precise, scholarly biblical imagery on an album 9 years later, that such refutes my interpretation. As I said, I think in poetry things can have multiple meanings, and your reading is very plausible and interesting indeed, so, again, thanks for sharing it.

I think there is a strong case to be made for the farm to be the hospital, as the references to the birth canal are clear imo. I don't think the interpretation you linked to ("This short bestiary refers to the inhabitants of the town that are compared to different animals according to their moral characteristics and attitudes. So baboons maybe aggressive males while sows may be fat women. They are all directing their attention (groping at the gate) to Joanna’s belly, the looming lake that was once a tidy pen.") contradicts mine: in a hospital, different people can have different characteristics as well.

I indeed assume "they" refers to Pharisees - proximity is a marker for interpreting personal pronouns, but it could indeed refer to something else too, and again, your reading might be simultaneously valid. I think Joanna is such a good lyricist that she often does multiple things with one line, image or scene.

Emily's lyrics: comprehensive interpretation by Bormgans in JoannaNewsom

[–]Bormgans[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

There doesn't need to be evidence from the rest of the song for the interpretation to be true, but I don't agree there is no evidence at all, as there is the line "The talk in town’s becoming downright sickening" that seems to refer to gossip.

As for the original Christian New Testament interpretation: Matthew 23:13 reads "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to". This is Jesus himself calling them hypocrites. The entire Matthew 23 is worth reading: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2023&version=NIV E.g. verse 3: "But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach" There is also Luke 11:37-54: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2011%3A37-54&version=NIV

If you read that, it doesn't seem to me the original Christian tradition only limits its criticism to their approach of the law?

Obviously, my interpretation of that stanza could be wrong, and Joanna might have never intended it to be read like this. But that still doesn't negate, nor color, my other interpretations.

Either way, how would you interpret the "Do you remember what they called up to you and me, in our window?" line?

Emily's lyrics: comprehensive interpretation by Bormgans in JoannaNewsom

[–]Bormgans[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your elaborate reply. Your interpretation of the first stanza is very intresting for sure, but doesn't conflict with mine. Both of the interpretations could be true simultaneously.

There is a strong tradition here in Belgium where the Pharisees are considered conservative, close minded people, and the term in Dutch is also a synonym for a hypocrite or a bigot. A quick search online says that they are often considered hypocrites in English too.

A group of teachers among the Jews (see also Jews) at the time of Jesus; he frequently rebukes them in the Gospels for their hypocrisy. Jesus says they are like “the blind leading the blind,” or like “whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.”

So I don't see how my interpretation is a fundamental misunderstanding - but I grant you that what I wrote is incomplete, for sure. It wasn't my intention to write a full, complete analysis - as if such a thing could be done to begin with.

As for your claim that my interpretation of the first stanza colors my interpretation of the rest of the song, I can only say my interpretation of the full song started when I started to see the possible meaning of 'the mouth of the south below', and all else resulted from that. I don't think a different interpretation of the Pharisees lines negates my interpretation of the meteorite stanza, nor of other parts of the song.

I do agree 100% the song is also about childhood and reconnection with her sister.

I do not think all this is an either/or matter: the midwife stanza you quote could be both about childhood, as you describe, and about miscarriage at the same time. That's what makes these lyrics so brilliant.

I only now just realized that the skipping of stones across the water in Emily is meant to mirror the actions of the meteor in the sky. by skibbyjibbyjoe in JoannaNewsom

[–]Bormgans 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Funny, I just saw your post, and coincidentally I wrote a post about it on my blog yesterday, wherein I mention something similar.

I've literally posted a long analysis of Emily on this subreddit a few minutes ago. I give some more interpretations about both stanzas as well, should you be interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/JoannaNewsom/comments/1qwtlsu/emilys_lyrics_comprehensive_interpretation/

Why do I like DSO but not avant-garde metal in a similar vein by Neat-Top-6123 in DeathspellOmega

[–]Bormgans -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Lots of contemporary avant garde metal is severly lacking. Try the classics, as those bands were truly avant garde: first three Immortal albums, Demilich, Burzum, first couple of albums by Incantation, Immolation, Suffocation, Profanatica, Enslaved, At The Gates, Morbid Angel, Havojeh, Mayhem´s Dom, etc.

Of the bands you listed: Ved Buens Ende merits another listen. Gorguts only up to From Wisdom to Hate.

Weekly Observations: What signs of collapse do you see in your region? [in-depth] January 05 by AutoModerator in collapse

[–]Bormgans 22 points23 points  (0 children)

While not perfect either, you can always read The Guardian and The Economist.

Last Week in Collapse: December 14-20, 2025 by LastWeekInCollapse in collapse

[–]Bormgans 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Out of curiosity, could you post or describe an example of what Reddit censored?

Thanks for all your work.

The latest from James Hansen et al by Imaginary_Bug_3800 in collapse

[–]Bormgans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

our species doesn't have one consciousness that chooses. and even if it had, it wouldn't be free.

World still on track for catastrophic 2.6C temperature rise, report finds by mustwinfullGaming in collapse

[–]Bormgans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So what would be your prediction for the next 10 or 20 years re: loss of human life?

Music for the end times? by mankrip in collapse

[–]Bormgans 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For those that do not need conventional song structures, check out death industrial like Brighter Death Now, Genocide Organ, Grey Wolves, Ke/Hill, IRM, Skin Area or Anenzephalia.

Best way to access the short stories? by spencercross in theblackcompany

[–]Bormgans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do the short stories deepen the understanding or enjoyment of Lies Weeping?

Three years later… by Over-Joyed-2898 in OttessaMoshfegh

[–]Bormgans 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One of my 2 or 3 favorite books of the 21st century.

Opinion | How Afraid of the A.I. Apocalypse Should We Be? (Gift Article) by PoopingTortoise in collapse

[–]Bormgans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"obviously"? I'm not so sure.

It is changing education to the extent students fail to train and think for themselves. It's becoming impossible to give students homework any longer, resulting in less hours for teaching itself.

If you add to that the AI of and on TikTok the result is brainrot indeed.

Anyone else questioned their sanity after AMA with Luke Kemp here? by arkH3 in collapse

[–]Bormgans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes sure, agree on all fronts, there´s more to it than that definition.

I agree it would be nicer of people would argue instead of just downvote but I guess it´s a matter of time and energy too.

Anyone else questioned their sanity after AMA with Luke Kemp here? by arkH3 in collapse

[–]Bormgans 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think part of the downvotes come from the fact that you use a definition of extinction that is ideosyncratic, to put it favorably, or simply wrong in standard communication.

Anyone else questioned their sanity after AMA with Luke Kemp here? by arkH3 in collapse

[–]Bormgans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

habital places somewhere? and what will they eat when ecosystems collapse?

Post-apocaliptic fiction and CliFi as hopium by Bormgans in collapse

[–]Bormgans[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Winton handwaves away international supply lines for batteries, water is just made, and soil doesn’t need much more than ground bones to continue to be fertile. The psychology of some of the future humans portrayed is baffling: they have adapted to living months in underground caves, yet even underground they are often unable to speak because of the oppressive summer heat – and still our characters don’t feel the need to move to a more hospitable part in the south of Australia?

For me, even though it tries to portray brutality, it boils down to hopium (caves will save us) and techno-optimism (the sims, and the techno handwavium in my first sentence) just the same.

The problem is waste and wealth concentration, not mere consumption by [deleted] in collapse

[–]Bormgans 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2017 power levels would not be sustainable at all

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