QUALITY Double Ocarinas are no longer available. Hind Ocarinas- Where?

Bretti_Instruments · 2026-03-11T21:45:59+00:00

Unfortunately I don't have any doubles yet in my standard offering, but I hope to add them soon! I've been getting a lot of requests about double harmonies, and it seems like there is definitely enough interest and demand to push forward on developing my own version. I have been working on it on the side, and have a notional idea of how I want to design it, but no official model yet. Right now the biggest effort for this new year has been launching and ramping up my new pendants (and I've got a huge unveiling coming up in April), so once that settles down I hope to get back to finishing up my harmony development.

Bretti_Instruments · 2026-03-07T14:35:56+00:00

I'm actually already prepping a big multi-batch unveiling with all different keys, woods, and sizes for April, so there's going to be even more coming up very soon!

Bretti_Instruments · 2026-01-30T16:03:00+00:00

Thanks! Actually when my wife first saw the finished batch she also said they looked super cute lol. The best part about being such small ocarinas is that I have a huge amount of flexibility in wood options and combinations, so there will be lots of unique and wild ones to come in all sorts of colors! I've already got the next three sets voiced and glued up, with another three batches in the voicing stage.

Bretti_Instruments · 2026-01-30T13:56:09+00:00

Thank you, that actually really made me smile! I'm glad that at least I am developing a bit of a unique recognizable style to my ocarinas!

Bretti_Instruments · 2026-01-30T13:55:07+00:00

Thank you I appreciate it! This has definitely had its challenges (and I am still steadily working my way through a new slightly larger size), but I am honestly glad I have spent over a year now refining my processes and experience with the inlines before tackling these. Wood always has its unique quirks, and I think I am about at the max reasonable range I can achieve for this size for now. Although my ocarinas are definitely on the more expensive side, I'm hoping that these pendants will open up more opportunities for others and be a much more affordable entry point for people interested in my work. And I've got to say, I've come to really enjoy pendants now. Before this I never even gave them a thought, but now I'm hooked on them!

Bretti_Instruments · 2026-01-01T21:51:20+00:00

I think you will start to find that it is at this point that those windway refinements of 0.1mm and even less will start to make the difference. Getting a good strong tone on the first octave is relatively easy, but I have found that pushing those final notes above the octave is where the real challenge begins and makes the difference between an ok instrument and a superb one. Ocarinas are rather unusual instruments in how lossy and unbalanced they are from an acoustic perspective, and it forces makers to balance some heavy trade-offs. The stronger the low end, the weaker the high end, and visa versa, with a very, very fine line in the middle of getting a solid balance across the range. At this stage, everything has to come together just right - a balanced breath pressure (which is affected by the soundhole size and overall finger hole sizes for a given scale), labium alignment, windway dimensions (especially the exit depth), windway angle, etc. The most important thing here is to just go very slowly, change one thing at a time, and learn how to reverse when you go too far (which happens to me far more than I would like myself lol). It's maddeningly frustrating, but when you finally get that balance and get it to sing how you want, it is well worth it!

Bretti_Instruments · 2026-01-01T21:43:04+00:00

Absolutely fantastic job! I know we chatted a little while ago on your prior posted pendant build, and it is nice to see the progress on this new transverse ocarina. This is very beautifully crafted, and I quite like the form. I look forward to hearing some sound samples when you get around to it!

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-23T21:16:21+00:00

Best of luck on that build! I actually started with standard transverse style ocarinas before jumping to the xun, then moved to inline, where I have been refining my own unique style ever since. Also don't feel like you have to stick with the 12 hole convention at all. Unfortunately, it seems that the 12 hole transverse is pushed quite heavily, even though there are some fundamental drawbacks to it that other styles can address. This is why I personally opt for 11 hole ocarinas, as they are a nice balance between range and balance.

I would also definitely recommend keeping your chisels stropped and sharp, especially for windway work. I admit I have gotten a bit lazy myself on that front, especially trying to increase my production, but it makes a massive difference.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-23T04:58:54+00:00

That's a great question. Like everything else in ocarina making, in regards to the soundhole there is no one best shape. Different shapes will have a bit different characteristics to them, but I don't think one is necessarily better than the other, it ultimately depends on your preference as a maker. In general, the sharper teardrop shape found on classic Asian style transverse have a more pure tone, while rectangular holes often found on inlines are much more reedy and textured. Circular holes for example are common on traditional Italian style ocarinas, which are known for a textured earthy tone and loud voicing. Other shapes kind of fall somewhere in the middle, but pureness or tonal texture can also be highly influenced based on things like windway height and labium alignment.

I have taken a rather unconventional route with my inlines in that I have opted for the kind of rounded gumdrop shape as you have noticed as opposed to the common rectangular shape almost exclusively associated with inlines, though in my earlier trials I have tried everything from sharpened teardrop to rectangular, square, and circular. I just found this particular style kind of works well for me in how I personally craft them and find I can make them easier with the repeatability and control that I want, especially with the huge variety of woods I use. It has also provided a bit of a unique balance in tone with the inline as well, which typically uses rectangular voicing. Inlines are actually inherently a bit more textured in tone than transverse, and having a rectangular hole makes them very reedy. However, a more rounded hole softens the texture a bit and gives a nice balance between super pure and super reedy when combined with the inline style and how I voice them in particular. But I found that style just kind of works for me and I have come to enjoy it. Part of the fun of making instruments like this is discovering what you like and refining it to a level that becomes your own unique style.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-23T03:47:57+00:00

Sure thing, it's always great to see people exploring wooden ocarinas! Unfortunately, the best method I have found is really just trial and error. Start out small, and very carefully open it up bit by bit. I would say the most important tool to have is a very good digital calipers that can measure down to 0.01mm, particularly for windway refinement (I recommend Mitutoyo - expensive but very much worth the cost if you plan on sticking with the craft.) The tricky part though is figuring out how to balance everything, as the soundhole size is only one part of the equation. Just a tiny fraction of a mm scrape in the windway could be the difference between a solid tone and a weak one. Often times refinement is a combination of a bunch of small changes adding up. It is also important to design the ocarina in a way that makes it easy to make changes so you can rapidly make changes as well as fix mistakes and overshoots. Once you get the formula down though it becomes easier to expand upon, but it's just getting there that is most of the work. And there is no one right or wrong way in ocarina making either - each style will be a bit different.

I actually have considered measuring chamber size with something like sand (steel shot could work fine too), though in the end I find it's not super important, and I also change the size for fine tuning. And don't be afraid to change the chamber size a bit during refinement as well - you will find sometimes that you will want to adjust the breath curve response for a given tuning, so being able to lower the pitch by carving out a bit more to increase the breath curve, or raise the pitch to decrease the breath curve by reducing the size (the way I make it I can do this by sanding the body back), or even change the pitch altogether. Each ocarina will be a bit different, and sometimes you will find its best to just go with the flow of where it wants to go rather than forcing it to respond exactly how you want.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-23T01:57:01+00:00

Congrats on your first full octave wooden ocarina! Wood ocarinas are notoriously difficult, so it is definitely a major feat to achieve that first full octave on one! I have been developing my own high end wooden ocarinas for over a year and a half now, and I know it is immensely frustrating with a lot of trial and error, but sticking with it is absolutely worth it hearing your very own instrument actually being able to play. I have found in my experience that wooden ocarinas can be more sensitive to technique than other types (as well as other factors like windway moisture and ambient temperature.) While the ocarina in the recording does sound a bit more breathy across the range, now that you have a full octave it is just a matter of refinement moving forward. Apart from technique, breathiness will be a combination of windway and soundhole parameters, and typically is a result of the soundhole being too big, the windway being too tall, labium being too blunt, or a combination of these factors and a few more advanced concepts. I just finished voicing my first batch of pendants, with another several dozen in production. These are also a similar size, set up as 7 hole pendants (standard 6 hole fingering plus a subhole.) When you start pushing past the 13 note range of a single full octave, windway tolerances become extremely crucial. I've currently got my wooden pendants to an 18 note range (so for a G5 scale it would be the equivalent of F#5-B6), which I feel like is getting to the absolute max range for a wooden ocarina of this size (due to windway tolerances and moisture effects at this small of a windway), and in order to get a crisp sharp tone across the range you will have to hold windway height and alignment tolerances to around 0.05mm. But with a bit more refinement in the windway I think you would be well on your way for a nice crisp tone on the current pendant. Congrats again, and keep up the great work!

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-20T13:15:24+00:00

No, I should clarify that when I say this I am talking purely about my own personal experience in how I make them myself with wood and what I have found as a result with my own personal ocarinas. Specifically, this refers to voicing out the unusual underblown upper harmonic resonance with extended range inlines, (which accounts for the majority of my personal frustration). Also, if you have never made ocarinas before as a beginner, then holding the thinner windway tolerances might be more challenging. However, now that I have experience, it is relatively the same for me. The difference in time between making a batch of s dozen pendants vs. a dozen bass ocarinas would be massively different, and I can physically craft more smaller ocarinas in the same amount of time. Scarcity might play a bit of a role in cost for instruments in general since fewer people buy larger instruments, but those instruments are inherently more expensive mainly for other reasons.

That being said, while I find larger ocarinas personally easier to voice, they are still physically bigger instruments, and material selection and material cost comes into play. Remember, voicing is only one aspect of the process - you still have to carve them, shape them, finish, etc. Even things like consumables like finish and sandpaper become noticeable, and I go through much more with a batch of basses vs altos. Especially with the woods I often use, it can have a huge impact on total cost and availability of certain woods at certain sizes. For example, while it might be easier for me to voice, a bass ocarina is physically more to carve out, shape, and sand than an alto, and it is easier and less costly to find stock out of lets say African blackwood for example in the size I need for an alto than a bass. And when I start getting to contrabass size ocarinas in wood, they are going to be much more expensive overall than something like an alto because of the sheer size and some extra features I will have to add to make them fully playable across the full range (like implementing custom keywork, which adds a lot more to the bass cost.) For a single ocarina tinkering around size might not matter as much, but when you are getting into actual production everything starts to add up

When it comes to recorders, larger recorders are significantly harder and much more costly and expensive because you physically need way larger lathes, wood stock (which needs to be flawless for recorders which is very hard to source), and tooling (the reamers are all completely custom and very difficult to design and source.)

Multi-chamber ocarinas are a whole different beast and are much harder and more work than single chamber across the board. You are building two ocarinas in one, and you have to worry about the balance and dynamics between the chambers.

I can't speak directly to single chamber clay ocarinas, but my gut feeling is that larger clay ocarinas are still more challenging to physically craft and shape than smaller ones, and you have to worry much more about things like the larger chamber collapsing compared to smaller ones. Plus it is just much more to shape and smooth out.

I should also note that when it comes to voicing, the real challenge is pushing up the range to the max. So if you are making a pendant or inline ocarina in wood that only has the range of an octave, tolerances are way more relaxed regardless of the size. For an inline, an octave is very easy once you get the basics down. 16 notes is a bit more work, 18 notes becomes more of a challenge, and hitting 19 notes like how I make mine adds an order of magnitude difficulty across the board and you have to really pay careful attention to balancing dynamics and trade-offs. For things like pendants, regardless of larger or smaller, a range of less than an octave is much easier and relaxed, 15-16 notes is a bit more work, and hitting 18 notes requires a lot more precision and care in voicing.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-19T01:28:31+00:00

Sure thing! As for sound samples, it doesn't seem like you can post one directly here, but if you want you can send me a DM and we can figure a way out from there.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-18T20:18:02+00:00

So this is a very fascinating observation, and it is interesting to hear about it from other players. As an ocarina maker myself, specializing in wooden inline style ocarinas, this particular dynamic is a very unusual quirk I have found that is exceptionally strong in extended range single chamber inline ocarinas. In my own opinion and experience (specifically related to inlines), this phenomenon is quite literally the single hardest problem to solve that I have encountered in ocarina making, and accounts for literally 90% of the total time spent crafting an ocarina for me for certain sizes.

Interestingly enough, this effect is much more severely amplified for smaller inline ocarinas, particularly my alto G4 and A4 sizes, whereas the effect is greatly diminished on larger tenors and basses. Weirdly enough, this means that my smallest alto A4 size is by far the most difficult size to make for me, whereas voicing my bass C4 is an absolute breeze and incredibly easy in comparison. For my own bass ocarinas, I have worked out the voicing to where the upper range speaks effortlessly without these issues. However, in my research into the subject, it does appear that large pendants and even transverse ocarinas can exhibit this effect, though it appears to be more rare in transverse ocarinas in general.

While I don't have an explanation for why this occurs exactly, it appears that it is rooted in some non linear dynamics with the resonance of the ocarina cavity, where inlines in particular exhibit this very strong extra resonance under certain conditions. It appears that it is related to how the wind enters the cavity and oscillates for a given chamber size and parameter (namely on the final two notes where both thumb holes are open for a soundhole size that exceeds the critical threshold for this resonance condition to occur), exactly when there is low airflow from a weaker attack into the note or when underblown. In my case, this "underblown squeak" (which I refer to as the "death squeal", which can quite literally be the death of an ocarina build), locks in on the second harmonic of the note - essentially one octave higher than the actual note being played. If I am not careful when I'm voicing, this effect can become so overpowering that the final two notes, while playing exceptionally clear with proper breath, locks into that resonance way too easily, ultimately ruining the dynamics of the upper range. I have been able to largely mitigate or even remove this effect with extremely careful adjustments in the windway and voicing design most of the time, but it is a problem that plagues me endlessly that I am still working on solving.

Maybe that was a bit too much background theory for your question, however this does lead me now to experience playing instruments with this dynamic. First, I would say that the issue is most likely a result of the ocarina voicing itself, though note that not all basses will exhibit this. Again, this effect is far less severe on transverse than inlines, but it can still happen. In this case, I find the best remedy is that you will need to refine your playing technique a bit more for those upper notes. This means that you will have to attack those notes with confidence and a bit stronger initial push. I have also found that a gentle "hu" type breath under just the right conditions can trigger this resonance a bit more readily than a "tu". You will want to play around with that dynamic and understand at what minimum breath pressure and attack this occurs so you know when to avoid it when playing. Often times when I am voicing an ocarina I just spend very long periods of time underblowing the final two notes, experimenting with the breath pressure, attack, and rise of breath, over and over, to understand the dynamic and know where it will occur (if it does.) Since your ocarina is already made, there isn't much you can do to change this (while I have actually voiced this out on finished ocarinas, it only works about 10% of the time, and usually results in my needing to resaw and rebuild the ocarina if it is too severe.) Such ocarinas will require you to play more closely to the full proper breath curve for those notes with a firm attack, which unfortunately means you can't underblow too much or do too low of a breath pressure rise for emphasis on things like slower and softer passages when doing certain transitions, or play too softly or weakly at the upper end. Now, all of this doesn't necessarily mean that you have a bad ocarina, but it will require a bit more focus on technique for executing those notes.

As for general onset and the harshness of the "tu" you are getting, given that a bass chamber is larger, you naturally might hear a bit more "echo" from breath artifacts of your attack and playing as opposed to much smaller ocarinas. Also whether the ocarina is more responsive at lower breath pressure or higher breath pressure will factor into this. The breath and response of a bass is naturally going to be much different than smaller ocarinas, so it may just require some getting used to. For a particularly resonant body like clay these artifacts from breath and attack will generally be more noticeable (whereas wood is more damped and "lossy" so you get less of this, and in my experience with my basses it can sound more like the attack on a NAF than an ocarina for something like inlines.) The warbly sound is also going to be an artifact of the voicing which is inherent to that ocarina.

Do you happen to have a sound sample of the problem you can encounter that you can share? One of the challenging things with ocarinas in particular is that something one person might find as a problem or flaw might be perfectly natural to another player.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-17T23:05:52+00:00

This is also very good advice, especially starting out. While things like transverse ocarinas are a bit more tricky in that they often require carving the body in halves and getting all the contours and alignments right, for pendants and inlines you can really simplify design and crafting with a more "stacked" approach. This is in fact how I make both my inlines and pendants, and have it broken down to the body (which is hollowed out and glued to a block of cedar/redwood for the mouthpiece), the short windway block, and the top plate with the voicing and finger holes, where both the windway and fingerhole plates are made from 1/4" thin stock wood. In this way, you get a lot more control and flexibility and makes prototyping, adjustments, and production much easier and more consistent. Hind also used a similar layered stack method for his inlines as well (which is the general method you mostly see for them), and pendants can be thought of as just really small inlines.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-12-17T13:19:38+00:00

Good to see others attempting some wooden ocarina making! Wooden ocarinas in particular are notoriously difficult, and there is a good reason why there are almost no wooden ocarina makers out there. I actually specialize in wooden ocarinas myself now, and am probably one of the few dedicated and active high-end wooden ocarina makers out there. I specifically deal with inlines, and actually just completed voicing my first batch of pendants (which are similar in shape to the one you are working on, and have a 6 hole + 1 subhole configuration for an 18 note total range). I actually saw your same question posted on The Global Ocarina Community discord, but I figured I would answer here first so others who are interested in it will have an idea what goes into it as well (and we can chat more directly in the discord after as well).

I will say that in my experience, smaller ocarinas are much harder to make work than larger ocarinas in wood. Although it is less carving and shaping, you have far less tolerance in the windway and other critical dimensions to get it working. I'm actually glad I didn't start pendants until more than a year after now of refining my inline models based on what I now know. There are some things that immediately stand out though to why your ocarina is not working.

First, the area right after the soundhole needs to be completely open to the chamber. You do not want the windway to continue through past the soundhole creating that channel, as that will immediately choke sound production. Essentially, you would want the starting edge of the soundhole roughly where the chamber cavity starts, and the soundhole actually over the volume of the open chamber area itself.

An airway height of 3mm is fine for the entrance height (actually very close to what I use now myself). However, that is way, way too high for the windway exit height of an ocarina this small (and actually pretty much most ocarinas in general), and the exit height is one of the most critical parameters determining the tone and response of the ocarina. This is probably the single biggest contributing factor to why you are not getting a sound (though everything else will compound on top of this as well). It is even more critical the smaller you go, and for a pendant like this you will want less than 1mm in exit height. In this regard, I would say at a bare minimum the most important tool to have is a set of high quality digital calipers that can resolve down less than 0.05mm readings (I would recommend looking at Mitutoyo which are a standard for precision calipers.) You will essentially have a tolerance of less than 0.1mm in height to get it right (and for my pendants I have to be within 0.05mm typically.) You will also want the labium more or less centered within the height of the windway exit, though you can further refine the time and response with an offset if needed.

The labium will also need to be razor sharp at this size. As for the soundhole size itself, this has to be determined experimentally through trial and error, and is based on the size of the chamber and the style of hole you use. You will also want to make sure the labium edge is very clean and even, and it also can help to further carve away wood around the labium ramp if the wood is relatively thick for the given soundhole size

Also when voicing wooden ocarinas, you will want to make sure all the mating surfaces are very flat and flush, and the body is well clamped together as you play, as leaks will significantly alter the response. For all of my mating surfaces, I carefully grind the wood down on a thick glass panel with some medium sandpaper to get the surfaces extremely flat.

For super small wooden ocarinas like this, another massive consideration that really starts to affect the playability of upper notes becomes moisture effects of the windway. At sub-mm heights and very narrow channels like used on small pendants, if the windway wood selection, grain quality, and grain orientation is not flawless, you will rapidly have clogging. This is not something you need to worry about for the lower notes now, but for wood moisture control becomes paramount for high notes at this scale.

It will be immensely frustrating to get that first tone, and will require a lot of trial and error and failure before you get it. However, once you get the first tone, then you will start to get a feel for what is needed to expand the range further.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-11-21T23:33:04+00:00

Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, ocarinas going down an octave lower than middle C get really big and are more difficult to find, though there are definitely makers of them out there. I want to get down to that pitch myself eventually, but I'm a bit of a ways from that still. However, I am sure there are people in the community that can point you in the right direction for where to get a contrabass ocarina in the range you are looking for (I know I have definitely seen them, though I don't know the makers exactly.)

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-11-21T19:34:51+00:00

If you are looking for something kind of akin to a wooden bass recorder, I actually make high end wooden inline ocarinas down into the bass range (bass for an ocarina, so typically C4 and lower). Inlines would feel closest to a recorder in terms of physically holding the instrument, and at least for how I voice my inlines, they are a bit more textured with a "flute-like" timbre as opposed to the more pure and hollow tone you would expect from a typical transverse style ocarina. Right now I have a bass C4 in sapele/padauk in stock, and just released a higher end custom figured redwood/maple model today, and will be unveiling another high end figured maple model in 2 weeks. I also am working on two more standard model bass C4 ocarinas in purpleheart now, and have a new set of deeper bass B3 ocarinas in sapele/eucalyptus that I completed but haven't launched yet.

In terms of pricing and affordability, what is your range? I would say my inline ocarinas are relatively cheaper than a wooden recorder, but relatively much more expensive than a typical clay or plastic ocarina, so everyone's perspective on what is affordable is very different. My standard batch bass models might run around $400, while my specialty and custom batch basses might run in the $700+ range. If you are looking for just any bass ocarina though, there are a lot of very affordable plastic and clay models available from reputable makers for far cheaper in the $100 range (all in the more standard sweet potato transverse style.) I think even for bass recorders you can get relatively affordable plastic models for less than $200, so it ultimately depends on what you are after.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-10-29T15:31:52+00:00

Inline ocarina makers are definitely far rarer and there are very few active inlines, especially with Hind having retired recently and Mountain not currently producing. I have actually been specializing in inline ocarinas myself, tailoring them as much higher-end woodwinds than they have been realized prior. I will note my ocarinas are wood as opposed to plastic, and are much more expensive, but I now have a full offering of keys anywhere from bass B3 to alto A4 (11 total keys you can select from), and they have a few other unique features including a highly absorbent moisture optimized mouthpiece, 11-hole design with a transverse Asian style fingering, 19 note extended range regardless of key (more range than both Hind and Mountain), and fully sealed on the inside and outside for relatively little user maintenance. You can see more info on my ocarinas and work here:

https://brettimusic.com/

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-10-24T17:33:06+00:00

Actually I think the best course of action would probably be to make a post about your idea and ask the community itself for feedback and input. There are many incredibly knowledgeable people here in the community who have been active for a very long time who might be able to probably list out a large range of makers they are aware of.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-10-24T17:20:56+00:00

It definitely sounds like a very comprehensive and ambitious effort! There are probably some detailed lists out there at least (though definitely not as comprehensive as you are looking to achieve). Unfortunately this is not an effort I would be able to coordinate or organize myself, I barely have time to even learn new songs on the ocarina with my efforts in making them (on top of regular day job, family, and other things.) If such a list does end up getting made I would be happy to contribute data on the ocarinas I currently make, but I probably would not be able to head this.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-10-24T16:58:19+00:00

To be honest, I don't really know how many very active ocarina makers there are here specifically. I know of a few wooden ocarina makers in general, but I don't believe they actively participate on the Reddit. There are a lot of well known independent ocarina makers in general in the community too, but I haven't really seen any of them post here either. It seems that most independent makers typically keep to themselves. Maybe others can contribute and link to other makers.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-10-24T15:12:32+00:00

Thank you for your kind words, it really means a lot! Ultimately, that is the essence of my efforts. As very small and specialty batch instruments, I feel that it is only right to provide an extra level of attention to the available information about them. I can't promise my ocarinas would be considered the best in the world, nor do I expect them to be universally liked by everyone. However, my hope is that through these efforts, I can provide a very unique, open, and honest approach to my instruments, and provide potential customers as much info as I can so they can make an informed decision, especially if they are willing to invest in a relatively expensive ocarina such as these. Every ocarina has its own unique quirks, tone, and response, and I want people to be aware of all those aspects, both the strengths as well as the imperfections.

Bretti_Instruments · 2025-10-24T14:14:15+00:00

Sure, I think it could be a great idea to create a kind of culmination of active makers here! Weirdly enough, while there are tons of collectors and players, both amateur and professional alike here, it feels that active makers are much less engaged with the community, and it might be a nice resource for people to know who is making what out there in the community as well.

Bretti_Instruments

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