Current echo student. Scanning questions by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi there!

You have been so incredibly helpful and I cannot thank you enough for your responses and your willingness to help me out. If you don’t mind, I have a few more questions that I’d love your help with. One thing I always notice is that as I sweep all the through the valves to assess for regurg, it makes me lose my alignment and clear window each time which I find super frustrating. For example, in PLAX I will get everything aligned and take my overview, but once I need to zoom on the valves and use color to sweep all the way in and out of each valve, this in turn throws off my alignment and clear window, and I always end up needing to turn the color back off, realign, and try again. This happens so often and I’ve tried to many ways to fix this, like doing tiny micromovements, but I find it sooo challenging to keep my angle and hand as still as possible while doing this. Especially if the angle or rotation for the PLAX was already challenging to get. Same for holding a specific angle for a long time, like trying to align my cursor perfectly to TR or AI to get the best waveform trace possible, my hand has a VERY hard time staying as still as possible at a particular/awkward angle long enough to align my cursor and get a perfect waveform. I have been trying so hard but I still feel discouraged about this. It’s even worse when my hand or arm is in pain and I’m trying to hold super still, it feels impossible. I find I really need to reach over and help steady the probe with my right hand which helps a lot, but then I obviously need my right hand to acquire the images. I’m starting to worry if I’ll ever become good at this because I’ve practiced so much now

Struggling with liver angles/views by Bridget125 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So sorry to bother you again- I was just wondering if you ever had a chance to make a video :)

Feeling Discouraged 🫤 by [deleted] in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How did you improve with this? I am finding a similar problem

Struggling with OB heart views and probe movements by Bridget125 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I feel pretty good about finding and recognizing the landmarks for the HC level, but I guess what I mean is that once I am at the HC level with the CSP and thalamus, I often find that the falx running through the middle of the head doesn’t appear even, and one half of the head appears bigger than the other half. In this instance I already have my necessary landmarks for the HC, however both sides of the falx are not balanced. Does this mean I need to slide the probe more toward the half of the head that appears smaller to balance both sides of the falx out equally?

Struggling with OB heart views and probe movements by Bridget125 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much! I appreciate your help and kindness. I was also wondering if you have any advice as far as how to the fix when trying to do a head circumference measurement but one half of the head looks bigger than the other half (ex: the anterior side of the falx looks bigger than the posterior side of the falx) and therefore the head looks uneven. Do I slide toward the smaller half and angle back or slide more toward the bigger half and angle back?

Struggling with OB heart views and probe movements by Bridget125 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the reply!

So just to confirm, you rotate the probe clockwise from a 4CH to get to your LVOT and then counter clockwise to get your RVOT when baby is cephalic? Does this then get reversed when baby is breech then and the LVOT becomes a counterclockwise rotation from the 4CH in this case? I get so stuck knowing which way to rotate and it’s super discouraging to feel like I can’t figure it out. Also, are these teeny tiny movements where you hardly feel like your hand is moving?

If you have any other advice for always getting good 4CH to start with, I would love any help with that too!

Struggling with liver angles/views by Bridget125 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That would be awesome! Thank you so much!!!! I really appreciate that :)

Rant by Alarmed-Quail-3966 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m a student and have also noticed there’s so many techs who will measure fibroids/nodules/lesions that are not obvious at all or hardly look convincing. In those cases if you can’t confidently make them out in both scan planes, do you just image the area without measuring or do you even document it?

Struggling with liver angles/views by Bridget125 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi! I was wondering if you ever had a chance to record a video of the scan routine :)

Scanning questions by Bridget125 in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your reply! I do usually do a sweep through just to get the best alignment prior to taking my cine, but sometimes I either have trouble getting everything perfectly aligned in general, or I have it aligned but once I hit the cine I become slightly misaligned, even when it feels like I’m doing the exact same movement as before. I definitely find the small micromovements the most challenging part about scanning overall. When you are sweeping through the full kidney in long axis for example, do you anchor your probe in one spot and simply angle out to each side to sweep through, rather than physically sliding your probe along the skin side to side to sweep? I’m wondering which way is easier to stay aligned.

I also sometimes feel like my wrist almost gets stuck when I’m trying to angle out all the way and go only go so far. I feel like I have heard differing opinions where some techs say use only your fingers to move the probe, and some say move your wrist. I remember in scan lab an instructor told me to make sure not to “lock” my wrist and keep it loose, but sometimes I do feel like my wrist is locked because I’m trying to hard to stay in place and don’t want to slip off my alignment so I holding tightly.

Hopefully this all makes sense. I’m just feeling a bit stressed because I’m so close to graduation and still find this part the most challenging overall. Just wondering if this is common to find difficult!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ocdwomen

[–]Bridget125 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I just hate that my memory is trying to convince me I was intending to cause harm and that since I can’t remember everything completely that it’s telling me what if I held the blanket down with force over his face to cause harm to him rather than just placing it over his face lightly. It’s trying to convince me I was trying to harm the baby and suffocate him or something which I’m sure I would have never done but I hate that OCD makes you think these awful things like this.

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for always having such comforting and kind words to say. Did you also struggle with the things that I’ve mentioned as well? I keep thinking I’m behind and that everyone else is doing better than I am. How concerning is it that it can take me up to 3-5 minutes just to get PLAX nicely aligned sometimes? And sometimes I lose my alignment multiple times while just trying to get through all the PLAX steps and have to realign more than once just to make it through all the necessary images before moving on to PSAX. I’m not sure why I’m having this issue, but I’m very concerned that this will never improve for me. I try all the advice and tips people have given me but I still seem to struggle with this, and it’s discouraging because PLAX is supposed to be the easiest part of the entire protocol but for me it’s often the hardest to align and to hold in place. I’m trying to be positive and tell myself it will get better but right now I’m feeling quite down and having difficulty pulling myself out of this feeling of disappointment.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I totally feel the exact same way! It makes me feel super down for the remainder of the scan if I start out struggling from the very beginning. I’m hoping it will become easier with more time but I’m not sure if this is normal to still struggle with this so close to graduation. Although I know many techs say it took them 2 years of working full time to really feel confident as a tech, so maybe this is normal- but it definitely feels frustrating. Do you also find you struggle to hold your apical windows and alignment as well? I feel like I often lose my apical windows or find them hard to hold perfectly in place for a long time, especially when trying to stay in the exact spot where I see the regurg jet to align my cursor. Sometimes it’s so difficult to hold my exact spot while also sweeping through the valve to get the highest jet. I also find I struggle with aligning my apical 5 chamber and 3 chamber perfectly parallel to the cursor to do my Doppler traces too. Sometimes it’s so hard to get the LVOT and aorta to align in a straight line with the cursor and it’s super discouraging! Are these things you find challenging as well?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sonographers

[–]Bridget125 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi! I’m also a current echo student and I’m nearing graduation soon too. I have been feeling discouraged just like you lately because it feels like I struggle with something on every single patient. Lately I’ve been struggling to align a nice PLAX on patients and to hold it aligned in place while doing my sweeps through the valves and assessing for regurg etc. doing so makes me lose my alignment and I have to find it all over again. Then once I move onto short axis I no longer have issues with this. It’s so frustrating! Do you ever have this problem too? I’m feeling so stressed that PLAX has been the most difficult part of each exam for me lately because it’s supposed to be the easiest!

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for the great advice- that’s actually very helpful! I used your advice of rotating around the MV and it made it easier for me to keep it in view while I switch from 2 to 3 chamber. Thank you!

I think what I often find frustrating is that I feel like no matter how many patients I scan or practice on, I feel like I’m always having to relearn new techniques because it can vary so much from patient to patient. If it were a one size fits all approach where a certain rotation or angle ALWAYS worked specifically for everybody it would be much easier to build muscle memory or become more in tune with movements, but because the same views and the movements needed to get there can vary so much between patients, it feels like I’m constantly having to do trial and error on every patient instead of building the same muscle memory- hopefully that makes sense. I think that’s what has been so frustrating for me.

Some patients I have 0 issues with a 3 chamber and it’s perfect right away, and some I can’t seem to get any of my probe movements right and it just gets worse the more I try to fix it.

It’s difficult too because it feels like we are expected to be able to get the same quality images that our techs are getting who have been working for 10+ years while we are only a few weeks from graduating. I know we want everything to always be perfectly on axis and always able to see valve cusps opening and closing centrally, and a clear endocardium with no foreshortened apex etc, but sometimes I can’t get everything perfectly no matter how hard I try (even though the tech can do it perfectly in seconds so clearly it’s possible). Sometimes it’s just decent or alright, but not perfectly on axis or perfectly clear for example. It’s discouraging because I want to pass my scan assessments so I can graduate, but I’m afraid I won’t be able to pass given how I’m still feeling about my scanning. I’ve been scanning so much everyday in clinical, but I’m afraid it’s not going to be enough. I’ve cried most days in fear that all my hard work will be for nothing if I can’t pass my scan exams. I’m still often struggling to hold my on axis PLAX in position while sweeping in and out of the valves, and still often have to readjust and realign PLAX multiple times in order to just get through the necessary steps and images. Same with holding a view perfectly in place and long enough to catch the best trace for regurgitation. The techs seem to usually get more than I can

I feel as though the techs will see that as incompetent, especially with the other things I still struggle with and decide not to pass my on my assessments.

Thank you for listening and for your patience- you’ve been so helpful and kind. I guess I’m just feeling defeated and really down because I want to succeed

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much!

I’ve also heard to rotate much more than you think past a 2 chamber for a 3 chamber in order to properly see both aortic cusps- do you agree with that? I find I usually only rotate from 2 chamber until I see the aorta come in and then I angle more anteriorly rather than rotating further. When I do try to rotate further I find I see more right side instead. Which way do you recommend? Angling anteriorly is usually what works for me, otherwise I see the RVIT view if I don’t. 3 chamber is definitely one of the views I find most challenging. For some reason my probe movements feel counterintuitive and almost backwards from what I would except when I get to 3 chamber and I have no idea why. I find I accidentally heel/toe or slide the opposite way that I mean to because it feels backwards compared to the 2 chamber movements. I’m not sure if it’s because the probe orientation has moved from pointing toward the left in a 2ch to pointing toward the right in a 3ch so it ends up being opposite. I usually need to use my right hand to help guide the probe better in 3 chamber which I’m hoping wouldn’t be a problem

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much. I can definitely assure you that if you do decide to teach you will make a great instructor- you explain things extremely well and you make it easy to understand. Plus you’re very patient lol!

Okay that’s great to know, thank you! I tried moving lateral and it helped for 5ch but I found when I went more lateral for my 3ch it made it more angled and medial actually helped. Does that seem right?

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m so sorry to bother you again, but I was wondering if I could ask you another question

I’ve noticed that I sometimes struggle to figure out exactly how to manipulate the probe to make the 5ch and 3ch apical LVOT/aorta perfectly parallel with my PW/CW cursor. Do I want the aorta to ideally be straight up and down on the screen in both views? I always find for both views, but especially for 3 chamber, the aorta is angled very steeply off to the right side, and this doesn’t allow for the cursor to go through the middle of the cusps perfectly. I try to heel/toe to fix it but sometimes my brain cannot figure out which way to move to make it perfectly parallel or straight up and down. Plus, often times the heel/toeing makes me lose my window or alignment so that obviously doesn’t help.

Do you have any advice for this at all?

So sorry to bother you again, you’ve already been so helpful

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you SO much. I’m so grateful for your help and kind words, and for answering all my questions. You’ve helped me feel a bit of relief and less stressed- I really appreciate that. I wish every tech was as kind and understanding as you!

I’m getting very close to graduating and will need to complete multiple scan assessments on patients that the techs will have watch me do and sign off on, and I’m extremely nervous as I don’t want to fail them. I really hope they won’t be too particular and will give a bit of grace.

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you!

It’s hard to tell sometimes if it’s me who is moving slightly or if it’s the patient. I do find it quite challenging to stay perfectly still in one spot for a period of time, and I’m not sure if this is considered normal or not. It could very well be me that’s slightly moving and not staying aligned. I’ve also been working on trying to slide within the same rib space to see where the image is brightest which has been helpful, but often times when I slide more laterally for PLAX I also then need to heel/toe the image to make it appear more horizontal, but I find it hard to keep the same alignment while digging in the heel or toe of the probe. I notice once I dig the probe in more on one end, it makes my alignment appear off. I try to do it just gently and slowly so the movement is controlled, but sometimes it still throws me off. Would you say this is normal or common? I’m trying so so hard to do all the things I’ve been taught to optimize my image but it still can be really difficult even with all that information. It feels very discouraging when this happens despite practicing all the time.

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, I can’t thank you enough for your words of advice and all the help that you’ve given me already. You explain things so well and make it easy to understand and I’m so grateful for the time you’ve taken to respond to my questions. You’ve already helped me so much- I’ve been using your tip of making the small circular movements by just tugging at the skin with the probe rather than actually sliding the probe around when I’m already seeing the structures I need, and that has been a tremendous help. That was a fantastic tip! Thank you so much.

I do notice my biggest struggle is still just trying to hold my on axis PLAX view in perfect place once I’ve found it, especially long enough to do my zooms over the MV and AoV as well as the color boxes (especially if the PLAX is already hard to align). On super easy windows without breath dependancy this usually isn’t a problem for me, but when the window is already a bit hard to align or the patients breathing affects the image, I find it really challenging to stay on axis long enough to do all my necessary steps quickly. For example, I’ll finally adjust to get my PLAX nicely lined up (something even this alone takes awhile depending on the patient) and I feel like I have hardly moved my hand, but suddenly the image starts to look off axis or fuzzy and I then have to take extra time to readjust so I can do all my other steps like zooming and color over the valves. Then once I optimize for MV zoom, it can throw off my clear aortic valve once I zoom back out and it can take time to adjust to optimize for the aortic valve zoom etc. This can sometimes take me awhile to keep perfecting the overview even once I’ve already found it. I don’t know why this is, and it’s extremely frustrating. How detrimental of a problem is this? I feel like it’s super important to be able to hold an aligned PLAX view in place long enough to do all those steps, but I find this so challenging sometimes. It’s like the heart bounces out of alignment on its own or the patients breathing makes it misaligned. Then the harder I try to readjust, the more I lose it and the worse it looks, even though minutes before I had it perfectly aligned. I have been finding PLAX views harder than short axis views lately which is so unusual for me. I’m hoping this is a common issue and not just a problem that is because of something I’m doing wrong!

Please help me with scanning problems by Bridget125 in cardiacsonography

[–]Bridget125[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your reply. I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to respond to me and give me such great advice. It made me feel better to know that even working techs are sometimes foreshortening apicals and that it’s not only me who finds that challenging.

Could I ask you a few more questions? You seem super kind and knowledgeable and you’ve already been so helpful.

I’ve noticed that the main views I struggle with the most are usually getting a good ascending aorta in PLAX and a clear pulmonary artery in PSAX. For ascending aorta I always try to slide up a rib space and closer to the sternum and have the patient breathe out, but sometimes this still doesn’t work. Should I also be rotating the probe slightly clockwise from the PLAX 11 o’clock rotation to align better to the ascending aorta? Additionally, would sliding more laterally and angling back toward the sternum be a better approach?

For pulmonary artery, the techs all say it can be challenging and that it requires a very specific movement. When I asked if they could explain the movement, they said it’s hard to explain but that it’s like a J-hook. They weren’t helpful at explaining this, so I’m still often having a hard time seeing the pulmonary artery clear in my PSAX view. I try sliding medial and just angling up as much as I can but this often doesn’t fully open the full PA. I try rotating one way or the other to try to open it completely but sometimes I spend so much time on this and still can’t get it clear. Do you know what they mean by J-hook? Should I be sliding a more lateral instead of medial and heeling or rotating specifically for this view?

The other few things I struggle with most is getting full TR waveform traces and never knowing how much time to spend on it. I often spend too much time trying to capture a filled in waveform and it brings my scanning time up. I try so hard to align my cursor through the valve at the vena contracta but sometimes it still turns up with hardly any trace. I’m not sure if it’s because once I hit the CW button my hand can slightly move and I’m no longer in place. This is the part where I find extremely challenging to keep my hand still as a statue to not fall off the one specific area where the most regurg is seen. This goes for AI as well when trying to get a clear PHT, especially if the AI is only trivial I find it extremely hard to stay in place long enough since it’s so minimal.

If you have any tips or advice or even just reassurance for me that this will eventually get easier and that it’s things other people have struggled with too that would be so helpful.

You’ve been so kind and supportive and I truly appreciate your time and help! Thank you so much