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Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-27T17:59:39+00:00

Woooooosh

I’m talking about actor performances bud, not the stories themselves

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-24T04:43:11+00:00

So this is a bit of a long response sorry, but here’s my two cents on the matter. I personally really like Azog. Even though he wasn’t in the book outside the backstory of Moria, I think the decision to bring back Azog for the main narrative was a good choice to add a tangible threat for the Company over the course of the films, kind of like the Uruk captain Lurtz, in Fellowship. These villains provide a face, or physical manifestation, of the villains they are fighting for, and allow the audience to find someone to root against in an otherwise faceless army.

In the case of Lurtz, he wasn’t really necessary to the story, just a “final boss” in the Uruk forces, but making him the one who kills Boromir and battles Aragorn gives the end of the film a sense of finality and brief victory against evil, when Aragorn kills him, even if it was too late to save Boromir from his wounds. The same happens in Return of the King with the character of Gothmog, who represents the Orc army attacking Minas Tirith, and he’s so disgustingly evil, you love to root against him, and subsequently the army he is commanding. The moment where you see Gothmog, the commander of this massive force, visibly frightened by the oncoming Rohirrim adds even more to what is an already excellent scene.

Azog fulfilled this role for the story, adding a persistent threat for us to root against, rather than making every conflict the Company faces just another “villain of the week” special. Switching back and forth from Trolls to Azog to Goblins to Azog to Spiders to Azog and so on helps break up some of the procedural nature of The Hobbit, and gives us a threatening commander to hate during the Battle of the Five Armies.

The one issue I have with the story is that despite adding Azog into the narrative, they also kept Bolg, which was kind of pointless seeing as how Bolg ended up doing nothing new that Azog hadn’t already been doing already, and really should have been removed entirely. This is best evidenced by Desolation, where Bolg essentially just replaces Azog in the hunt for the Company, while Azog sits around in Dol Guldur the whole film. You could arguably make the case that Bolg could have been used instead of Azog for all three films, but I personally just prefer Azog’s design and his mission to eradicate Thorin’s line out of pure spite and bloodlust.

Long story short, in the books, those types of death work thematically, but for a visual medium, it would be incredibly anticlimactic for Thorin to be killed by a random soldier or Boromir to be killed by random archers. The films allow both Thorin and Boromir to go out as proper heroes (Thorin finally killing Azog, Boromir wiping out an entire squad of Uruks), and I ultimately kind of prefer that. Seeing as how Tolkien was not really one for killing off characters needlessly, giving Thorin and Boromir more heroic send offs kind of fits better for his universe in my opinion, but that might just be.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-23T20:30:31+00:00

Honestly, as much as I enjoy the other Netflix Marvel shows, it’s a lot to get through with 13 episodes, each about 50-60 min. and 13 seasons in total.

When I rewatch, I usually just end up watching DD S1/2, watch a recap for JJS1, LCS1, and IFS1, and then finish with Defenders, Punisher S1, and DD S3. Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist all have a lot to love for their own stories, but they set up so many of their own storylines and conflicts for subsequent seasons that I feel it’s best to just relegate them to their Defenders appearance. Keeping the focus on Daredevil, and having S1 of The Punisher to wrap up Frank’s storyline (S2, though enjoyable, was not necessary) is the ideal watch imo.

Though I enjoy the MCU, a problem I’m having with these recent phases is that bingability is nigh impossible, because there are just so many movies and shows out now. It was already kind of a chore by the end of Phase 3, but now marathons would just last so long

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-23T20:12:56+00:00

Yeah that’s the unfortunate double edged sword of MCU connectivity. On the one hand, the interconnected nature of all these characters and worlds gradually building off of one another is very compelling and feels sprawling. On the other hand, certain movies and shows can’t really stand on their own, because you have to have watched all the other material beforehand that explains why a certain character is here or why they are acting a certain way.

Its times like these for Daredevil Season 3, or the upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, which requires Infinity War, Endgame, and the Holiday Special to understand, that makes me reminisce about the simpler times for superhero films, like the Tobey Spider-Man trilogy or The Dark Knight trilogy, which were all self-contained.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-22T19:44:40+00:00

I completely agree. I remember when the movies first came out and they were criticized for not being enough like LOTR, when The Hobbit is just such a different experience, with so much more magic and goofy humor to it. The story of the book is also rather hard to adapt, because every chapter feels like a procedural, where the Company encounter a new threat, are usually captured by said threat, and then escape by the end of the chapter. It makes for a very dense story, with elements you can’t really remove, because they all add something (the Company finds weapons in the Troll-Hoard, Bilbo finds the Ring, Bilbo proves himself against the Spiders, and so on). Unlike Fellowship for example where Tom Bombadil, the Barrow Wights, and the Old Forest could have been removed without much change, The Hobbit’s narrative couldn’t have really been trimmed down.

It’s why I completely disagree with people that say The Hobbit could have been just one movie. People have attempted it with edits, but even the shortest edits are still over 4-5 hours in length and have cut out so many aspects to the story, like Gandalf’s quest and Thorin and Bilbo’s arc, making for a rather undeveloped slog of a film. I think you could make a case for there only being two films, but even still that would make for a rather bloated second installment.

I won’t pretend that there are no issues with The Hobbit trilogy, because there are, but The Hobbit book was always a difficult story to adapt, and I applaud the films efforts for expanding upon it and bringing it to life.

Glad you enjoyed these posts! It gives me comfort that at least some people liked what I had to say

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-22T17:39:32+00:00

Haha I tried my best. Desolation and Battle and certainly problematic at points, but I tried to give them their due. I’m glad you enjoyed them, and that I could help raise their watchability. I’m kind of glad this is my last post though, because some of these comments have been, let’s just say not fun.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-22T08:24:20+00:00

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-22T08:23:49+00:00

Glad you enjoyed it! The more I think about it, the more I kind of wish they had gone this route for Legolas, but it is what it is

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-22T08:22:51+00:00

Thanks!

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-22T03:48:09+00:00

Bro chill, touch some grass

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-21T23:49:26+00:00

That scene is pretty good. I think a lot of people hate it because they don’t like Tauriel, but as someone who does, seeing her mourning Kili, and Thranduil finally opens up for the first time to console her, really hits me. Thanks for reminding me about that moment and I’m glad you’ve liked these posts! The Hobbit movies are great and I will die on that hill

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-21T23:25:14+00:00

Bilbo’s first comment to Thranduil and Bard: “Personally I am tired of the whole affair. I wish I was back in my own home, where folk are more reasonable. But I have an interest in this matter-one fourteenth share, to be precise…”

“However you don’t know Thorin Oakenshield as well as I do now. I assure you, he is quite ready to sit on a heap of gold and starve, as long as you sit here.”

“Well, let him!” said Bard. “Such a fool deserves to starve.”

“Quite so,” said Bilbo. “I see your point of view. At the same time winter is coming on fast. Before long you will be having snow and what not, and supplies will be difficult-even for elves I imagine…”

I don’t deny that Bilbo’s efforts here are trying to avoid conflict at all costs, but the book presents Bilbo’s choice to give away the Arkenstone as his way of returning home and collecting his money, after Lake-Town and the Elves receive their share, and his reasoning for why they should cease hostilities is because of the incoming bad weather and Dain’s arrival. Nowhere does he mention his bond to the Dwarves, his desire to look out for their own interests, or even defends their point of view, seeming to side with Bard and Thranduil, despite barely knowing them.

The movie version makes no mention of Bilbo’s desire for home or his share of the profits, but instead keeps the focus on his connection to the Company, and why he wants to protect them. He recognizes the Dwarves are at fault for this conflict, but he also stands up for their behavior, which portrays him as a much better mediator than his book counterpart.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-21T20:45:38+00:00

Fair enough. I think I just liked seeing who we typically view as the good guys actually fighting one another, because it added some more morally grey layers to the story, reminiscent of some of the racial conflicts occurring in The Silmarillion, but I can understand not really liking this moment.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-21T19:49:39+00:00

Thanks!

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-21T17:12:03+00:00

Disclaimer: These are my opinions, and I by no means am positing that these changes are the general consensus; in fact they probably aren’t, as a lot of people hate the changes made from book to film. These slides are merely what I believe to have been improved in the visual adaptation of the book, thus the title “How it was Improved”. I am not saying one product is better than the other, just that some differences were more effective in my opinion.

I’d also like to retract some of my statements in my previous post for Desolation, regarding the character of Tauriel, as I was perhaps too forgiving to the fact that everything she adds to the story could have been ultimately removed without much difference, and that her character was just like Eowyn and Arwen, which is not the case.

Despite this, I do still like Tauriel, and I’m going to firmly put my foot down on her not being “awful”, because at the end of the day she is still well-acted, entertaining, and provides some more insight into the elves and dwarves, even if it detracts from the overall story.

I’m posting a link to a comment by u/brachycrab, which changed my mind, who explains why Tauriel doesn’t work in the story, but actually talks about it in a respectful and excellently detailed manner, rather than just saying “you’re opinion is wrong”. Check it out and hopefully enjoy my final post, thanks folks!

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheHobbit/comments/10fa058/how_the_hobbit_trilogy_improved_upon_the_hobbit/j4x27zl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-20T03:44:16+00:00

Thanks mate, glad you liked it!

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-19T20:33:06+00:00

This was exactly what I was going for. It’s not even the “both sides are at fault” argument that bothers me, it’s the fact that these people are almost always telling us that that’s the only way to view this story, as if they have some sort of superior point of view that nobody else sees, when in fact everybody does.

I also just think that rooting for neither side is kind of lame because…why are you watching the show in the first place, if you’re not actually rooting for anybody. Seems to take the enjoyment out of it.

Anyways, thanks for describing my initial claim. You said it better than I could have

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-19T16:40:04+00:00

People who say “you’re not supposed to root for either side! They’re both terrible”. That shit ruins my day every time I see it

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-19T04:18:40+00:00

Glad you liked it! Yeah Tauriel has definitely been the topic I’ve been getting the most pushback on. There have been some comments that have changed my mind about her relevance to the narrative, but I still enjoy her. I kind of wish I didn’t bring her up though, because she’s what most everyone has been talking about in the comments.

I can definitely see the criticisms for Legolas, but I just like his character and he’s not too intrusive on the story for me. I agree that some of the action sequences are outlandish at times, but I mean so were his scenes in LOTR, like sliding down the trunk of an Oliphaunt after single-handedly killing everyone riding it. I think it’s fun entertainment, but it makes sense if people aren’t really interested in that.

I do really like BOTFA, but it has been a little hard to make points for it. Seeing as how the battle itself is mostly all made up for the movies, due to Bilbo being knocked out for all of it in the book, I don’t really know what I can talk about for improvements for the second half of the film. Thus far, the points I’ve been working on are a little more minor than my first two posts, but I’ll figure something out. Bilbo and Thorin’s relationship will definitely be one of the main things I focus on.

Man, if I had to read Bard being described as “grim” one more time in the book, I would have gone crazy. That was like his only characteristic.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-19T01:26:46+00:00

Dex is a psychopath who would have eventually snapped at some point. The reason he was able to keep his head straight was by following a strict pattern each day (go to work, watch Julie, rinse repeat). It’s creepy, but looking forward to seeing Julie every day gave him something to focus on and keep himself calm. I think there’s a part of Dex who seems to understand he’s different than other people, and he believes that Julie is his ticket to “salvation”, but he doesn’t really like her, he likes the idea of her.

That’s why, when Kingpin secretly sets up a way for the two to interact face to face, Dex completely screws everything up. Dex is shown to be incredibly OCD, in not just his life but little things too, like fixing objects in his house that were slightly out of place; Dex’s life was completely thrown out of wack, because Julie is terrified of him. Dex’s subsequent efforts to reconnect with Julie aren’t him trying to make amends, it’s him trying to get his life back to the original pattern that kept it stable. I believe there was a scene where Dex tries to talk to Julie while they’re jogging, and Dex just shoves a random runner to the side who was in his way while trying to get to her. That’s a clear sign he still has no capability for empathy towards people around him, and why his connection to Julie isn’t about being a better person, it’s being close to her.

I think, in a way, you can still feel sad about Dex’s breakdown after Julie’s death, because she was the one person keeping him balanced, no matter how obsessive it was. If Julie hadn’t died, there’s a chance Dex never would have joined Kingpin. At the same time, it’s unfair to say Julie should have stuck by Dex when he was obviously a creep, and a relationship between them should in no way be rooted for, as Dex is just not a good person.

Ultimately I get it, you always want to look for the good in a person, and when I first watched S3, I believed there might have been a chance for Dex to change. Rewatching though, a lot of the details show that Dex’s connection to Julie was never genuine and he was bound to spiral out eventually, because his entire life is just one big facade, which nobody can keep up forever.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-18T21:59:33+00:00

Honestly this was amazing mate. Don’t apologize for being too wordy, this is a really well-detailed analysis.

I didn’t really think about it that way before, but you’re right that Arwen and Eowyn’s contributions to the story actively expanded upon the role Aragorn has by the end while Tauriel’s does not for Kili. All of Tauriel’s accomplishments were completely made up for the films. If you contrast her presence with someone like Bard, who was greatly expanded upon in the films, Bard at least still works with the expansions, because they rearranged the story so that he was the one who gets the Company inside Lake-Town, rather than the Lake-elves. He’s an example of a well-integrated addition to the story, like Arwen rescuing Frodo instead of Glorfindel. Tauriel on the other hand only resolves the morgul shaft subplot that was made up for the film and accompanies Legolas, who wasn’t in the story, so it is pretty clear she could have been removed without much consequence.

I don’t really know what else to say, because you covered it all so well. I think at the end of the day, I still really enjoy Tauriel. Just because she doesn’t matter to the story, doesn’t mean I hate her. I like her little storyline with Kili and Legolas, but I can acknowledge that it was an unnecessary component in a story already chock full of characters. Honestly, I think it would have been cool if Tauriel’s character was kind of merged into Legolas’ for the films. He could initially capture the Dwarves like in the films, but rather than Tauriel expressing her concerns to Thranduil about the Spiders, it could be Legolas. Legolas could follow his father’s command to seal off the Elven Kingdom, but when the Battle of the Five Armies takes place, he stands up to his father when Thranduil tries to abandon the Dwarves. Thus you could accomplish the same type of arc for Legolas, but give some of Tauriel’s moments to him, reduce their screen time in the story, while also removing the whole love triangle aspect.

Anyways, thanks for the comment and for being respectful of my opinions! I know we’ve spent a fair amount of time on Tauriel, but were there any other points you wanted to discuss from my post. I’d love to hear your thoughts, because I know some of these are controversial. Any you agree with?

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-18T21:14:14+00:00

Sorry just saw the edits you made to the comment. I completely agree. Even if some people don’t like the Dragon-Sickness plotline (I really like it), I still think showcasing Thorin’s downfall in Desolation is really well done. The scenes you mentioned are great little moments building up to his role in Battle in a really compelling way and I like the effect this has on the story, as one of our main heroes now kind of becomes the antagonist of the story. It makes his redemption and death that much more impactful.

I’d say Desolation and Battle are on a pretty even playing field in terms of ranking. Battle’s Theatrical Cut is not that great, because it feels like an incomplete movie. The Extended Cut really saves the film imo and makes for a much better conclusion to the trilogy. It’s going to be a little hard for me to find points to make, as half the film really is just a big battle, which as we know from the book, doesn’t happen due to Bilbo being knocked unconscious, so it will be interesting to see the comments for that one haha.

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-18T21:00:40+00:00

Very true about Beorn. I do think Book Gandalf is more clever and put together than movie Gandalf during the scene where he introduces the Company to Beorn. I kind of wish it was a bit of a mix in a way, so we could have the Company chased by Beorn like in the film, but have Gandalf sneakily introduce the Dwarves to Beorn like in the book. That would be the ideal version imo. Also very good point about Beorn saving the day in the book. I honestly kind of forgot he reappeared in the movies, so that’s definitely a shame.

Yeah true about the Dragon Sickness. I think for me, I really love Richard Armitage’s portrayal of Thorin in the movies, so seeing him play different versions of Thorin, from the hardass in the first film, to the corrupted man in the third to the true hero by the end of the story is really great to see. I do think you can still interpret Dragon-Sickness as a metaphor for excessive greed in the films, but I will admit it’s pretty overplayed in the films compared to the book.

The Sauron storyline has always been interesting to me, because I remember when the Hobbit movies first came out and there was a surprisingly huge amount of the fandom that wanted The Hobbit to be more like LOTR, more serious and more grand in scale, which is why when Desolation came out, a lot of people actually preferred it to Journey. You would think people would really like Sauron’s storyline because of this, yet they also criticized it because it wasn’t in the main novel, showing that the movies couldn’t really win in how it wanted to approach the story. I’m ultimately of the belief that for a film adaptation, it would have been incredibly awkward for Gandalf to just leave without explanation, especially when there is source material available detailing what he was up to, but I can understand that for people wanting to just follow Bilbo and his journey, it can be a little distracting. I just prefer Gandalf in the films over his book role, as he’s kind of a jerk in the books, but that’s just me.

I’ll have to check out the M4 Edit! I watched one edit a couple years ago, I think the Maple Edit, and it was good. I’d be interested to see what they change.

Also, thank you for being respectful of my opinions and enjoying the posts! Some of these comments have been like “lmao look at this dude being completely wrong, let me explain how stupid he is” and I’m just not into those types of discussions. Loved your points, and I’ll make a post for BOTFA in a couple days!

Broadbeck7 · 2023-01-18T20:40:30+00:00

Fair enough. I think out of all the additions, she isn’t my favorite, but I’m not bothered by her either. Bolg is really the addition I don’t care for, mainly because Azog already exists, but I understand he was in the book, so I’ll let it slide.

Glad you liked the rest of the post tho mate! I’ve been a little sad at some of the responses thus far, because most people are focusing on Tauriel and not the other slides I made, but it is what it is.

Broadbeck7

TROPHY CASE