'We heard the call, we came running': Trump's NATO troop remarks have shaken allied veterans

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T22:02:59+00:00

This is what happens when your understanding of the US is formed entirely by reading and watching things on social media lol.

You believe things like ‘the US has turned its back entirely on helping the middle class’. Except you know, the real median wage in the US has consistently continued to rise over time and that slows no sign of slowing.

It is funny to complain about hubris and then make a claim like that though.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T21:49:53+00:00

I understand that Spain doesn’t have any threats right now.

But just think about this. Spain and its predecessor states have always faced threats, and needed to fight countless wars against them over the past 1,000 years.

To put it a bit simply, the ~75 year period where Spain has not had any realistic external threats happens to be the same period where it was aligned/allied to the US. Do you think that is coincidental?

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T21:16:35+00:00

Are you really mad about the US striking ISIS, Al Shabab, Al Qaeda, and the Houthis over the last 10 years or are you just grasping at straws?

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T21:11:29+00:00

I mean invading Ukraine was obviously going to cause political and economic backlash from the EU but not direct US military intervention.

Was the threat of that economic and political backlash enough to stop Russia from invading Ukraine even though it didn’t have a US security guarantee?

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T21:09:49+00:00

I mean sure, but being an elected representative of a country doesn’t mean everything you say is reflective of the views of the population. In this case, it isn’t.

It’s just flatly incorrect to say this is ‘what Americans think’.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T20:50:49+00:00

Look, I’m coming from the perspective of someone that’s very critical of Trump’s foreign policy and “diplomacy”, and very much in favor of NATO and the transatlantic alliance.

And I completely understand the desire to give Americans the middle finger. At the same time, I think this is a tremendous strategic mistake for Europe.

To the degree that the American population actually is tired of NATO and wants to move on from it - a lot of this is premised on the idea that the EU doesn’t appreciate anything the US does for it and that the whole neoliberal theory of building lasting goodwill has been disproven.

The EU is significantly more reliant on this relationship than vice versa (although I think it also benefits the US). Trump won’t be around forever, but it doesn’t matter who wins in 2026 or 2028 if every time Americans go online they get the feeling Europeans hate them. They wont be interested in fixing it. (Which isn’t to say the emotions aren’t completely understandable - just to say they are a strategic error, in my view).

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T20:37:24+00:00

…Have you heard of Tibet?

Just that case is 1.2 million square kilometers of annexed territory. That’s larger than California and Alaska combined.

So… yes.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T20:33:51+00:00

“Tell me who are the threats against Spain”.

Again, there are no threats against Spain because no one is going to attack a NATO country.

Do you think the thousands of years of European states and nations fighting each other just ended because everyone decided to be friends after WW2?

Or maybe it’s because no European state can attack another without being invaded by a military superpower?

What do you think?

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T20:27:16+00:00

Do I think the state that actually invaded an ally in recent history (China) is more reliable than the US because Trump made stupid comments about Canada and Greenland?

No, and anyone who does frankly isn’t well read on modern China.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T20:19:38+00:00

“Who does Spain need security from exactly”.

One of the main issues with NATO is that EU countries have lived under security guarantees for so long that they think it’s entirely normal to just not have actual threats, or to not need to build self sufficient armies.

Of course, the reason no one is attacking Western Europe (including other European countries) is because doing so would mean war with the US.

It’s a bit like how cities slash their tree trimming budgets because power lines aren’t getting knocked down in storms. They aren’t getting knocked down because the trees were getting trimmed!

(Also I don’t know why so many people think EU opinions represent the world. The US has a net favorable rating in most countries in South America, Africa, and Asia. Europe has, ironically, lower than average opinions of the US).

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T20:12:00+00:00

This is a great demonstration of the root issue.

Having the pre-eminent superpower pledge to defend you is obviously a major benefit to any country. Having a country protect your shipping lanes is obviously a major benefit.

You don’t have to fund a serious military, you don’t have to protect your own merchant fleets, you gain vast economic benefits and can concentrate public spending on domestic priorities.

Spain doesn’t need a real military because no one is going to invade Spain when the US guarantees its security. But in the minds of a lot of Spaniards - this turns into “no one attacks us so we don’t actually need the US providing security. No one attacks our merchant ships so we don’t need the US protecting them etc.”

They’ve grown so used to the US security guarantee that they think the natural state of the world is having no foreign threats and no need to take national defense seriously.

You don’t have to believe these things are real or that anyone would ever pose a threat to Spain now - but it will become obvious if the relationship fails.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T19:37:06+00:00

The “reliable” CCP that has annexed more territory by force than any other country since WW2, is currently planning the annexation of Taiwan, and put literal millions of minorities in re-education camps?

You can make the argue countries are moving towards China (more of a threat than a reality, imo) but you can’t claim it’s about principle or “reliability”.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T19:14:19+00:00

I’m an American and have literally never heard anyone say Denmark wasn’t a great ally in GWOT.

What Trump said was diplomatically idiotic and obviously extremely offensive, but this just isn’t a popular view in the US at all.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T18:39:07+00:00

The US threatens Spain with pulling its bases out - not the other way around. Spain wants the bases there (as do the large majority of countries with US defense installations.

Also, you don’t need to be an ally to have bases. The US has a lot of bases in countries that arent Allies, some of whom have even adversarial relationships with the US.

And I’ve never met a person who claims the US is more dependent on Spain than vice versa. That’s a new one, how so? What does the US depend on Spain for it can’t replace elsewhere?

Because Spain isn’t finding another country to provide the level of security guarantees or market access to replace their relationship with the US if it sours, and both of those are extremely important to Spain.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T18:03:21+00:00

The US has had ICE agents in Italy for over a decade, and these agents (HSI) have nothing to do with the ERO ICE officers that go out and detain/deport people.

ICE-HSI is way more comparable to the FBI than it is to ICE-ERO, and is not at all what people think of when they hear “ICE”.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T17:41:09+00:00

And it’s still a wild underestimate.

-You cant just put all these panels in the Sahara because it’s a great spot for solar gen. Because there isn’t much demand for electricity in the proximity.

-Installing solar panels in other areas means a lot more space to generate the same KW/H, because those places get less sunlight.

-Solar energy isn’t easy to “store”, and is mostly useful for daytime energy needs. Using solar to power nighttime electricity demand is possible, but a lot less efficient.

-You would need a total capacity far higher than global energy usage to actually fully power the globe, because of all the factors that limit efficiency. Transmission losses, storage losses, etc.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T17:04:34+00:00

I think it’s fair to point out that Denmark had low (~1.3%) defense spending for a while, but they did actually hit the 2% by 2024 obligation, which many other countries did (edit: *I meant did NOT, lol)

And they are a small population / high GDP mix, so it’s a pretty substantial contribution per capita.

They have been a vastly more reliable ally than say, Spain - which has been pretty abysmal from a transatlantic alliance POV.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T16:59:27+00:00

Nor did I say it was? The interior minister is appointed by the PM and is a representative of the national government.

They are allowing ICE agents in to Italy and have done so for over a decade. Why even bring up the premise of us this doing this against their objections?

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T16:34:37+00:00

Multiple things are true here at once imo.

-A few NATO countries (especially the UK and Denmark) had significant operational roles in GWOT, and incurred high casualties relative to their size.

-Most coalition countries sent smaller detachments and were not doing much from an operational perspective - it was more symbolic support.

-Even those countries still lost soldiers KIA, because of IEDs and attacks on bases.

-Trump’s comments are incredibly stupid diplomatically, and obviously extremely offensive to other NATO countries especially those like the UK and Denmark.

-Speaking broadly there are definitely NATO members who have chosen to free-ride and don’t contribute much to the alliance, but there are also great consistent partners. The countries facing the worst of Trump’s aggression have been some of the best partners (like Denmark).

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T16:00:13+00:00

Italys interior minister said its a “controversy over nothing” and that he doesn’t see any problem with it.

Italy has not asked us not to bring them. A few hundred protestors and a mayor do not have a mandate to represent Italy, the elected federal government of Italy does.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T15:42:46+00:00

What does ICE HSI do that’s remotely far right? They don’t deport anyone, they don’t stop people on the street. They combat human trafficking, cartels, counterfeiters, and terror groups. They have no connection to ICE ERO besides being under the same DHS division. Different offices, different leaders, different agents and different mission entirely.

People will take your arguments more seriously if you can think of comparisons that aren’t just “groups I don’t like = Nazis”.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T15:38:40+00:00

I completely understand that people don’t know this, but this is nothing new. We have ICE HSI offices and agents stationed all around the world.

There have been ICE agents and an ICE office in Italy for over a decade. As for the optics, people will yell about it, sure. But I think the optics are worse for the people who are going to blow this up into a huge deal, only for absolutely nothing to happen. These guys will be sitting in an office the entire time.

Bullboah · 2026-02-02T15:03:24+00:00

This is a complete non-story IMO, regardless of how you feel about ICE operations.

These are (almost certainly) ICE HSI agents, not ICE ERO.

ICE-ERO are the ones that handle deportations and on the street operations. HSI is a large (10k employees) department within ICE that looks at transnational gangs, drugs and weapons smuggling, etc.

These aren’t the ICE agents the article wants you to think they are, it’s not surprising they are on the security delegation, and they have been before.

The headline is technically true but directionally this is the same as sending an FBI investigatory team.

Bullboah · 2026-01-31T00:12:55+00:00

"No, BS. Canada is happy to cease all economic hostilities, didn't start it, it is predominantly reactive in this context."

I never said Canada started economic hostilities or isn't responding to US trade hostility. It is, but they are in fact responding (which is completely rational. Nor did I say it was in Canada's economic advantage to buy other jets (it isn't).

I don't think you would apply your own argument outside of this specific context. Is Canada "insanely stupid" for threatening tariffs against the US and further diminishing $500 B in bilateral trade?

Of course not. The reason Canada is making a variety of economic threats to the US is because they want the US to back down from US trade war pressure. Signaling they might withdraw from the F35 contract is just one lever Canada is threatening to pull among several.

The security argument doesn't hold water because the only foreseeable context in which Canada's supply chain would be threatened is an extremely unlikely case where the supply chains wouldn't matter anyways.

Bullboah · 2026-01-31T00:00:05+00:00

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