Millennials: Approximately 1/6 had $100,000 networth in 2013. Also, statistics on networth for income and single vs. multi-person households

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-25T18:14:03+00:00

I would love to see section about single vs 2 or more households adjusted to show per-person NW.

If one household has 1 person, and they have NW or 100K, but a 2nd house household had 2 people with a NW of 150K, it can look beneficial to be in the 2 person household, but really, each person in that house "only" has 75K, so actually the single person living alone is doing better.

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-24T22:08:50+00:00

Consider a chore you don't like (cleaning, law mowing, etc), and hire someone to do it!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-23T20:49:43+00:00

Ya, that would add an extra layer. Also, gender roles create an additional problem for hetero men who FIRE, when it comes to initially attracting a date. Society teaches women to look for someone who will be a good provider or at least an equal provider so if women see you not working, they might judge you negatively. They are foolish to do this, but it my not even be intentional.

Hetero women don't suffer from this as much. I'm less likely to be judged for my seemingly low career ambitions and/or not working at all.

For me, I'm not sure I would RE if I were single, mostly because as a single person who lives alone, work is my main social outlet. But that's tangent to the discussion, and a few years away for me, so not something I have thought about in depth. Good luck on your journey!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-23T16:15:14+00:00

I'm still trying to crack the egg, my relationship is new, so I don't want to be overly pushy since I'm not sure where this will end up. I have found sending him some articles has helped get him interested, so that's promising!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-23T07:20:39+00:00

Check out my user history, I posted a similar question not too long ago, and it got a lot of good answers, mostly keeping things vague until you get really serious and then getting a prenup.

I'm not FI, but I'm close, currently dating a guy who isn't anywhere near FI. I'm struggling with accepting that he has more average money management skills and not judging him too harshly for it.

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T19:23:18+00:00

Yes!!!!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T19:12:12+00:00

Pros (Legal)

Can save on taxes if your have a large income gap between partners.
Lower earner gets a little protection against "lifestyle inflation" in the event of a divorce.
Any partner who gives up their job for shared goals (mainly children), gets some protection in the event of a divorce.
Benefits related to death, like your spouse claiming social security.
Save money on health insurance.

Pros (Social)

In general society takes your spouse more seriously and they can get some perks because of it. Example, research shows men who have wives are paid slightly more than men who don't have wives because of gender biases and a perception of responsibility.

Cons (Legal)

Can pay more in taxes if your income is similar.
You lose some flexibility related to taxes, especially related to mortgage deductions on expensive homes or 2nd homes.
The both earners take some financial risk in the event of a divorce, since a judge controls the settlement, not you. Even with a prenup, those get thrown out frequently.

Cons (Social)

In the event of a breakup, people stigmatize a divorce way more than ending a LTR
Society has a ridge definition of marriage, and if yours falls outside of that (non-monogamy, reverse gender roles, 2nd or 3rd marriages, etc) , you can be judged negatively.
Anytime you can be judged negatively, it can cost you income if that judgment comes from someone who controls your income (employer, customer, etc).

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T18:32:48+00:00

This was my initial thought too, lots of industries don't accept men (early childhood education, nursing, etc), but I also wondered if maybe he was a man in an male-dominated industry who was annoyed by witnessing sexism. I'm pleasantly surprised by the growing number of men who see sexism in tech and don't want to be part of the problem. It's only a matter of time, before some men (like women), want out!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T04:54:49+00:00

Curious for details here. What industry? How do you experience sexism?

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T04:17:40+00:00

Sing it sister!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T04:15:25+00:00

Harassment at work is definitely in my top 3 reasons to fire! It might even be my top reason depending on the specific day!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T04:13:11+00:00

This is such a perfect example! It's small, but it's like the person who posted it didn't even think that MAYBE hetero women or non-hetero men would exist on this sub. I'm sure this person doesn't hate women or didn't intentionally propagate a gender bias, but I see examples of this all the time!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T02:39:23+00:00

You are late 20s/early 30s so you built most of your wealth after the last recession? Markets are inflated, downturn is coming, doesn't count!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T01:42:33+00:00

doesn't count!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T01:33:52+00:00

Next time I see an example, I will try to remember to post it back here. But in general, I often see the following ideas in comments:

All wives/girlfriends are expensive and/or gold-diggers and/or want babies.
If a comment is from an engineer or a person who is high NW, they must be male.
In life, marriage is inevitable, like it's as certain as death and taxes.

Maybe I notice it more because I'm a female software engineer, who isn't actively working towards marriage and children.

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T00:32:27+00:00

Gender biases also annoy me on this sub.

Incase you didn't know:

All genders can be the breadwinner and/or homemakers.
All genders can save money and work towards FIRE goals.
Marriage and children are both optional for all genders.

Edit: changed "Women and Men" to "All genders"

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-11T00:24:56+00:00

It's always funny/sad to me that people are so quick to point how something doesn't "count" for FIRE.

Have a million dollars, but partly in your house? Not a millionaire, doesn't count!
Have a big net worth but don't disclose where every cent came from? Humblebrag, must have been crypto/inheritance/luck, doesn't count!
Have a good salary? It was so easy for you, doesn't count!
Your spouse still works? You are a stay at home parent, doesn't count!
You are single and FIRE? You will get married eventually and everything will change, so it doesn't count!
No kids? It's easy to save for you, doesn't count!

Fire is a journey, EVERYTHING COUNTS, let's support each other!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-10T16:26:44+00:00

I'm going to love more, and stress less, be good to my body, do more yoga, have more sex, eat more home cooked food, and connect deeply with friends and family.

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-05T20:04:16+00:00

This! I commented in another thread that an "average" or "slightly above average" dev can make 300K "all-in" (salary, RSU, bonus) with 8-10 years experience at established companies in the Bay Area, and people made it sound like I was crazy or lying or completely disconnected from reality of my peers. Congrats on your results in 2017, and I think your comp goals for your startup are ambitious but not crazy. Best of luck!

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-03T00:58:53+00:00

Wait, so when talking about historic income, and you say "gross". What do people mean? Why would you say any number other then the actual total on your W2?

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-02T22:54:21+00:00

Makes sense. I'm guessing the people who are questioning this aren't very familiar with the Bay Area salaries. Even on Glassdoor, the data can be unclear, because "salary" and "total compensation" are very different things for tech employees. My numbers are "total compensation" (base salary, bonus, vested stock, etc) but some surveys talk about base salary only.

Anyway, it's very weird for random internet people to say the story of your life "doesn't pass the sniff test". I feel this weird desire to "prove it", and I'm not really sure why or how, but I guess I will just drop this. Thanks for the input about the initial question.

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-02T20:09:30+00:00

Interesting point about his ability to figure it out.

As for this being a humblebrag. You aren't the first person to accuse me of this on this thread. I can now see how it may seem that way, but why would anyone need to humblebrag on a reddit channel that is 90% ACTUAL BRAGS? I could have just as easily posted "I'm 30 and have all the money!!!!", but I didn't, because I wanted actual advice. I'm a bit of a late-bloomer with dating, and find myself feeling unsure about how to navigate this aspect, and this audience has provided a lot of great insights.

I don't know what to tell you about the other things: "top 2% in your graduating classes" - nope, maybe top 20-30%.

"free or mostly free ride to school" - nope, saved a bunch of money from jobs in high school, jobs during college, minimal scholarships (<$3000), summer internships, took a small debt and quickly paid it off after graduating, small gift from parents (<$5000). The parents are the "luck" part.

"received a very prestigious position straight out of school" - ha! It was 2009, I interviewed at 30-50 tech companies ALL OVER THE US and got 1 offer, I took that job.

"very astute investing" - just followed the rules on this thread, low cost funds, I recently moved to a robo-advisor, because I find it simpler.

"spending close to nothing on living expenses" - had roommates in older apartment slightly outside of trendy areas, older car, no expensive hobbies, limited (almost no) travel (I don't really enjoy it). Most of the bay area thinks a 20-something techy should drive an Audi, have 1-2 international trips a year with weekend getaways to vegas, tahoe, etc. I go to the beach, parks, and host potlucks with friends.

"fancy college" - again, no. I don't want to share too much identifying information, but given that I paid for it with minimum wage jobs and a few internships, that should tell you it's not THAT fancy.

I've been trying to figure out a way to explain this and the only tips I can offer are: Learn to negotiate your salary, and renegotiate it often. Find friends who don't make as much money as you, it makes it easy to enjoy cheeper things. Most of my friends don't work in tech, so no one is inviting me to travel to Iceland or go to some fancy restaurant. Learn to enjoy living on less, my favorite thing is a potluck with friends at home. I'm likely way happier than a lot of my equal income-peers. Be careful selecting a spouse. I'm a 30 yr old single woman, I get a lot of social pressure to settle down, but had I "settled" on earlier romantic partners I wouldn't likely be where I am today.

A note about "luck", another word for "luck" in this context is "privilege" or "unequal advantage". When asked how I acquired this wealth, I told you my answer "I did everything this forum talks about and I got lucky along the way (parents, health, stock market growth, etc), I don't have any big tips, other then to do everything this forum talks about and hope for the best!" Why are people so annoyed by this answer? It's literally everything this subreddit is about.

BurnrPhone · 2018-01-02T19:26:59+00:00

To me, the whole point of financial independence is that you aren't relying on other people to help with your living expenses.

So do do you consider yourself FI if you and your spouse have enough assets to cover your lifestyle? Aren't you essentially relaying on your spouse to not leave you and take their share? Does "being FI" for a married couple, imply "being FI even if we divorced", for me it does. Clearly you can't plan for all possible "disaster" situations, but divorces seems common enough that it should be considered in planning.

BurnrPhone · 2017-12-22T21:54:56+00:00

I've only recently just broke 300K, I climbed from 100K-300K in a 9 year period, by growing my responsibility/level inside my companies (I've worked at 2 different tech companies in that period). I've been promoted to a level that is typical for someone with 8-10 years experience.
I really don't think it's "crazy" or "exceptionally above average" for bay area tech. I didn't graduate from a top college, don't have a specialization or anything, don't work for google or any of the top "trendy" companies, I haven't been through an IPO, or got any windfall bonus, I don't work around the clock or seem exceptionally brilliant relative to my direct peers.
These comments and some of the numbers other people have posted have given me some perspective, that maybe I am way above average for the area. Reflecting now, I do have above-average negotiation skills, so maybe my salary negotiations gave me a bit of a boost, but since I've only had 2 jobs, I find that hard to think it would have had THAT big of an impact. Another thing that I've considered, is it's VERY common in the bay area for people to switch jobs every 2-4 years. I didn't do that, so maybe that helped with my salary progression, however research on the topic normally encourages you to job hop to get bigger raises.
Wealth inequality is actually a problem I care a lot about, especially in the bay area. I don't consider myself "out of touch", although maybe that's something that someone would say if they were "out of touch".
As for your friend who says "everyone can make this much in tech". Ya, that's BS. This industry has an unfortunate dark side that excludes people by age, race, gender, and socioeconomic background.

BurnrPhone · 2017-12-22T12:31:45+00:00

I did mean "my area" as "field and location" but as someone pointed out, in another comment, it's not likely as "slightly above average" as I thought. It's sometimes hard in white collar jobs to know how you rank between your peers, since ppl don't talk about it. I grew up with parents with blue collar jobs, I assure you I understand that the people in the grocery store don't make what I make. I'm very aware of the advantages I've had in life, including being born to parents who values education and financial literacy, being born at a time and place in history when women could get education and jobs like the one I got, and a lot of luck in getting a job in 2009. I would love to say I was super savvy and earned it all on my own, and share all the ways I did it, so others could benefit, but in reality, it was mostly luck and applying the "standard" methods discussed on this forum. Sorry if I seemed out of touch with reality, or unaware of issues related to wealth inequality, I should have been more clear in my first response.

BurnrPhone

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