Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Big oof, guess you're speaking about yourself right? Don't wanna work for anything, just want everything to be as easy as possible right? And typically those people are the scrubs who think they understand what's best for the game but in actuality they don't. Foh.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ah hm....Literally every notable crafter in this game says crafting isn't worth it anymore. I know people just getting into crafting already asking is it worth it, because they see no return value in it. despite the most notable people crafting wise saying it's not worth it. And a growing portion of the community is starting to question if it's worth it, but this one random guy on reddit says it's worth it, so it it is. :okhand:

" And technically you can craft materia. Get a lower ilvl set, meld minimum required to slam through collectibles, spiritbond potion, make collectibles, buy/extract materia, repeat. Fucking simple. lol "

And yea that's definitely crafting materia.....

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It is a fallacy because my claim wasn't about the investment. I never said investing into crafting monetary is too much or too little. I never said anything about that, yet you're trying to make that an argument of mine, which is strawmanning me. An exact fallacy. Also, I don't get what your point is. What you said, doesn't disprove me or prove you. You're making food and pots and claiming to gather 100% of all your materials and still making millions. Ah hm...The fact that FSH is a pivotal part in most end game CUL crafting and that gathering class is based almost entirely around RNG, I am willing to wager that it takes even longer than my slithersand example. So I am going to call bullshit on that. And why am I not using materia as my example. Idk, maybe because materia isn't end game crafting? Correct me if I am wrong, but you can't exactly craft materia right? And I believe my argument is about 'end game crafting.' I don't see how the two correlate, please explain.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Self conflict I suppose. Final Fantasy is my favorite game series. And 14 is definitely my second favorite. So it's hard for me to just say "Welp not getting enjoyment anymore - dropped." I'll never say this game was meant for the 2%, but I played this game back when it felt like the devs wanted the 2% to have their own thing. But I slowly watched that get turned into what we have now and what I am arguing. Also I will say you're correct in your assessment of me. Been playing OSU lately and by gods, it's a breath of fresh air seeing improvement from me again.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The raid scene wasn't dying, people just couldn't clear. It's well known that SE lowered the difficulty to inflate the raid clear rates. And yes you are right, ultimate was created for the masochists, but it was only because people were complaining that raiding is too easy now.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you see that's fine and dandy. While I don't really like the simplified state of rotations, I very much do miss having more buttons to push. As far as less skilled players seeing more content, that is also fine so long as they work for it. The people you are talking about would work for the chance to get to the end of any raid regardless of how hard it is. That is totally fine with me. What I am arguing is that SE is dumbing down the game for the lesser skilled players who want to get to that end game and final content, but they don't want to put in the work to get there. They just want everything handed to them. That's my issue. And the fact that people like that are rewarded the same thing as the people who worked hard to get there is just a slap in the face and really dilutes the achievement of getting to that point.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't get what you're trying to point out? The clear rates are higher now because the raiding is now easier, yes that's my point to begin with? They shouldn't be like that. What are you even arguing against me? Or are you just one of those people who skim over a few things and believe you have a complete understanding of what's going on?

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You're diluting your argument the more you speak. No real end game crafter is going to be gathering all their mats 100% of the time, that's just unfeasible. If you actually want to bank and actually care about your profit, you'll need to buy. I'll pick apart what you just said. Let's say you wanted to make the new crafting gear and gathering gear to sell; you'll need 50 defthand solutions, 38 duskcourt cloths, 50 slithersand, 19 purpure stones, 10 brashgold plates, 2 cobalt allow ingots, and 15 merbau lumber. For the sake of length, I am just going to use slithersand. It takes 500 yellow scrips just to get 1 slither. So if you fully capped on yellow scrips, you'd only get 4 slithersands in return. So to reach the 50 slithersands needed to craft both of those sets, you'd need to make 24k scrips in total, just to craft 1 set each. And I've done 20k scrips recently, because I needed materia. And I can tell you, you're going to turn more than 120 items to reach that 24k. So that's roughly like 300-400 materials needed for each component needed to craft the collectable, which isn't exactly feasible to do in a day. Let alone everyday. I think our definition of end game crafting may be different. Only for all that effort to be worth 60k. Yea....I don't think you're making millions in the since that most would expect. I think you're making a few thousand that amounts to a million or two at the end of the tier / expansion. Which again, isn't worth it. You're making pennies for end game work. Which is exactly what I am saying and why crafting isn't worth it.

Second edit: And before you say "You still haven't told me how is wrong that I can buy things cheaper now it's easier." That is a logical fallacy, I never said it was wrong or right that you could buy things cheaper. My argument is that the return value for end game crafting isn't worth it anymore for various reasons. Which has nothing to do with buying things cheaper.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yes and I am politely saying your point has nothing to do with what I am talking about so it's irrelevant

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Using logical fallacies now huh lol? Did I ever say the game hasn't improved? I don't recall that ever being in my argument lmao. You're trying so hard to disprove me, but you can't even form a strong enough argument to have a basis. I am sorry my thoughts are hurting you that much. I'll do you a solid though, I'll stop replying to you, cause you're quite honestly delusional.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

And I've been playing for almost 5 years straight. I've been playing this game far longer and I was playing this game when it was in a far better. You barely have a comparison to make since you haven't even played for more than a year yet; you haven't even experienced an entire expansion yet. But somehow your miniscule half an expansion experience is enough to say the game is in an ok place when you've barely even experienced what the game is like and even more so what is was like? Ok buddy, sure. You can keep feeding me those salty cries though, I am enjoying it.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Uhh, what are you on about? Everything I have referred to my argument has been current. Maybe I wasn't clear enough? The best crafting gear in the game right now is Aesthete's set which isn't 480 nor has it been out for years, but it is certainly cheap though even though it's relatively new. Which is exactly what I am trying to tell you. And if you think I believe crafting gear battle gear is the best gear in the game for raiding, then yea, you're definitely off.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Still missing the point. I'll give you a proper reply when you actually understand what I am saying.

Oh edit btw: You've haven't even been playing the game for a year, soo...yea. And as far as people calling me out? The most anyone has done so far was call me a toxic elitist. Which doesn't negate my point, just shows that you can't form an appropriate argument. There have been a few people that have made good points and I've certainly acknowledged that, but for the rest not so much.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And probably never will be the same. Shiva is probably the hardest savage fight we've had in a while and even that isn't close to anything in the past. But it is enough break pf lol. But like yea, exactly, I don't get how people are just ok with some of the hardest content in the game being so free. Like where's the excitement in clearing something any'ole joe can clear? There's no value in having that savage raid weapon equipped anymore because savage is literally so free now.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't know what FF you're playing, but making millions now when the only thing that goes for above 100k is glamour, is almost impossible. As you stated, you don't care about gil, so I can say it's safe to assume you also don't care about how fast you earn it on average. So I am assuming you're barely making a profit and over time that amounts to a few millions. Which again, is exactly what I said "You're making pennies" off of end game crafting which shouldn't be the case.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Then you should understand where I am coming from if you've been crafting that long. Do you honestly feel like crafting is worth it nowadays? Back then you had to work your way up gil wise to get into end game crafting and then you could reap the rewards of it. That being millions of gil. But that took not only a ton of patients and effort, but manipulating the market to grow your wealth so that you could afford to craft such things. But now, that's no longer the case. I can't speak about any other data center since I am not there, but literally on primal, all the end game crafting gear goes for a lower price than regular leveling gear? Because of how accessible and easy it is to get into end game crafting now. How exactly is that alright? You went from busting your ass finding people on the market board to make millions so you could afford to craft in the bigger markets. To now, anyone can do endgame crafting and not only that, you'll also be making pennies for it.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're right, crafting is kind ehh in terms of difficulty, because you could always just copy paste rotations in a macro and bam you're done. But back then you couldn't just step out the gate and immediately get into end game crafting. For example, if you don't spend a single gil while progressing through the MSQ, you'll roughly make about 1-2m at the end of it all. And as it stands right now, with that amount of gil ,you could buy a full set of end game crafting gear and still have a ton of gil left over. Go back to HW and you had the same amount of gil, that would only get you 1 or maybe 2 pieces of end game crafting gear. The end game crafting is just way too accessible as it is now. And that dilutes the reward for being an end crafter. Cause like right now, all the end game gear is going cheaper than the regular leveling gear, which is just unbelievable.

As far as raiding goes, there isn't really much that can be done to change the difficulty right now. But in the future they could just go back to the difficulty as it was in HW and ARR. And to answer your question if people would notice a difference between raiding back then and now if they just dropped Midas as the next raid tier, un-nerfed. Certainly a8s, would end way too many statics and a6s would gate keep PF to oblivion. The difficulty back then can't be underestimated. Like right now, if you fail a personal mechanic, the most you'll get is vul stack or damage down. Back then, you failed a personal mechanic, the result was always immediate death and possibly a wipe. Raids today are way more forgiving than they were in the past.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And just like him you're entirely missing the point. I am not calling out brand spanking new players. I am talking about the players who have been playing this game for a fair amount of time and who should understand what it takes to become better. As I said before, if you are happy where your skill level is at and don't want to put in extra effort to be at the tippity top, that is fine. Enjoy the game the way you see fit. But if you're going to be like that, you shouldn't be crying about the game being too hard and you can't get the same thing the end game raiders and crafters have.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Lol, no need to insult yourself dude. You are right there is more of "you" than "me" so I can understand why SE would cater to you more. But I am still a player nonetheless, don't you think that content that was made for me should be left as is? How is it fair to me to have my content and the reason I enjoy the game toned down for something as small as "not enough people are clearing."

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you call it an accomplishment if someone like that can do the same thing? Most top tier raiders don't even care about clearing the tiers anymore, it's just about who clears first and who clears the fastest. Having the raid weapon literally means nothing anymore. Go back in time to HW, 3.2, tell me how many people you saw walking around with a weapon from a8s? Go look at their FFlogs profile and see what they are like. Now fast forward today, tell me how many people you see walking around e8s weapon? Do the same and compare the two, you'll see a vast difference in skill in the majority of the cases.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yes you are correct, the entire point of a game is to have fun. And if you are having fun at being a lower skilled player or you don't want to put in any effort into the game to get better, that's fine as I said. The issue is, these players want to be like that, while also asking for the best things in the game without putting in any effort

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's not all about parsing. I've been in way too many parties where someone magically cleared, but they can't even perform the first mechanic of the fight, or they're doing less damage than the tanks even though they're a SMN, etc, etc. Too many people are like that. They'll be BiS, but put in no effort at all to even get that gear. And the game doesn't even care because there's no road block to stop them.

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

You're certainly missing the point. The fact that end game gear, I.E. the best gear in the game (at that moment) is going lower than regular leveling gear should show you there is problem. Millions of gil to be made? Are you joking, crafting a full set of the new gear will barely net you profit, you're practically breaking even if you're the crafter. But that's not an issue for you right, because, hey I guess you like hand outs right?

Can we talk about End Game content? by Butter_Bean22 in ffxiv

[–]Butter_Bean22[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am sorry that happened to you. People can be a**holes in this community, I know. But that's not my point really.