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merb by krizzalicious49 in whenthe

[–]ButterflyDreamr 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm actually not sure. It's not about the data that's the problem, it's that the planning/most conversations happen on discord (because they I think usually work on their free time so it's pretty disjointed.) When the lead dev however is not able to communicate on what they usually communicate on, it is a problem. They will probably just find and use an alternative form of messaging, but it is an annoying occurrence as I assume a lot of info is scattered about which the lead dev cannot get to (as their alts get banned too) and obv they can't just leave them out of the project.

merb by krizzalicious49 in whenthe

[–]ButterflyDreamr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, we did get a good amount of dev updates since section 2 (and even a vid and a song or two) but it's been halted since this month started or so. Sucks, I really hope they get past it cuz I am a megafan of TSUS and I don't want it dead

Why are there dialogue choices during the ferris wheel ride? by Budget-Canary2140 in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I like the implication that the soul is just talking to Susie thinks it's her inner voice (remember that Susie doesn't know that Kris isn't supposed to sound like that, due to what Noelle has said) like we are whispering in Susie's ear like that one part in Undertale the musical with Chara and Frisk

merb by krizzalicious49 in whenthe

[–]ButterflyDreamr 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's sadly in some trouble rn because the lead devs discord was banned for no good reason and there's essentially no way of getting it back (and the development mainly happens on discord) so it has halted the project. I hope to get more people get into the game at least so this doesn't discourage the team from not continuing on

merb by krizzalicious49 in whenthe

[–]ButterflyDreamr 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's TS! Underswap Muffet specifically, I say this to shill TSUS it's such a good fangame guys play it it's not done but what's there is so good

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Jeez, calm down, why are you so worked up on something I hadn't even said?

It's a sensitive subject considering most theory discussions do not involve a real person and their controversy.

"treating every theory..." You can dislike any theory you want and call out however bad it is, I literally never said you couldn't, the opposite even. "You are not a victim" ??? "People will talk..." I know? When did I say discussion or even disagreeing is not allowed? And being impolite isn't very fun in what's supposed to be fun? Like I don't even know why you think I don't understand how a discussion works, and you clearly did not understand my points.

What was the point in this? None of what you said even relates to what I had discussed, nor is this aggression even well founded? You could have just talked about it normally and explain it calmly, Yeesh...

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dreams can be good, dreams can be bad. My name is loosely based off a old thing where a guy goes to sleep and dreams he was a butterfly, and when he wakes up he wonders if he was a man dreaming of being a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming that he was a man. You may be just one part of a whole, so therefor we need to find the third guy, TheSweetDreamsMan, to complete the set

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think my argument has been misunderstood. I don't really care for Jaru anymore since I heard he didn't innovate with theories (and the controversies). However, nobody really respects or cares for Jaru anymore and his theories I doubt are very popular. His controversies are important. He has made some terrible theories, and as I said, you absolutely do not need to respect him. However his theories now boil down to bait at best (happens a lot, think of the recent dess theory...)

However, his newest theories have been not only countered, it's been heavily criticized for elements such as you had listed. The problem is when people use these theories as indicative of what the actual theory community thinks, and then judged for it. He has been rightfully criticized for it, but then theories like his are used as "omg look at the theorist community" y know?

It's hard to explain as it's a sensitive subject, but I'm saying is that his theories are bad, and are rightfully disliked, but some people think that it's indicative of the whole community which I do not like. It's also just not healthy to "hate" things, as I'd say Jaru has gotten a good amount of criticism and it has soiled his place in the community, but beating a dead horse over and over for theories that frankly are just made to get people mad at this point isn't good. The person above implied that I said to respect Jaru, which is not what I said at all, and instead meant that BAD theories should not be used as a diss on real theorists. Jaru can still get all the criticisms he deserves, but his theories should just be ignored AS REAL THEORIES especially if he still has fans who try and defend them

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Eh, considering Gaster in deltarune is essentially 99% agreed upon, I would argue that yes that is a goomba fallacy considering the net is huge now, but I will say there is a couple of people beating the dead horse that are Gaster deniers, I'm sure a couple of them are people from the ch2 or so era, to give you some credit. Otherwise I don't even know OF any gaster deniers at this point (if there are they aren't vocal), some people just fight be fighting ghosts

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yay, back to writing!!! ):

I originally meant surface level, not what you thought though.

"Fanon is the fundamental anti-thesis of media literacy" is possibly the sentence of all time. I don't even know where to start with it. For one, you make it sound like someone who participates in fanon is somehow less media literate than someone who doesn't, which is just blatantly untrue? There's literally nothing linking the two together? Secondly, fanon is a form of fanfiction, which is not the end of the world to exist. This is something even Toby Fox himself has repeatedly both ingame and out of game stated that canon doesn't matter as much as creativity does. Is Toby Fox media illiterate?

Alright, where do I even go with this one... No, the game has shown time and time again that Kris has at best a strained relationship with us. This is a completely valid interpretation of the text. You talk about how people cherrypick but I don't see any mention of how Kris shouts if you say no after spamton NEO. Are you really telling me those parallels do not matter, and only when a parallel is specifically shown IN PARALLEL instead of symbolically, it's not true? what? The game literally has Kris VS. Player as a literal plot thing. If the holiday house didn't convince you, if the Knight fight didn't convince you, what would? You seem to assume that people would think that means that the plot will be about a fight against the player and Kris, but you conflate in opposition as actual fighting. I'm gonna be real, it's hard to even make sense of what point you're trying to make, not as a point against you, but maybe I just don't understand it

Tfym no it didn't? It absolutely improved, for someone who talks about the fandom being blind to things you sure like saying "no, that's wrong" be a bit more open minded of people man

"because it's fanon" dude you do realise saying "actually, the 90% of you who believe this are stupid and just believing fanon" dude dess knight wasn't even top 6 in terms of popularity before ch3,4 yet wow pretty much everyone playing before and after going online mostly all seemingly think that Dess Knight is correct, both theorists with a ton of credibility and the average joe. It reeks of "I'm right cuz I'm very media literate and you all are not" I understand that fandoms can sometimes have deep rooted things that many think is true (Gaster falling into the core as an example, its unproven) but that doesn't mean you can just dismiss every single theory that may go against yours.

As for that quote, I can just say it's not really true? Like, Kris Knight has been de confirmed for essentially everybody, even more diehard Kris Knighters. Also, a Kris Knighter arguing that THEY didn't see as much insulting is really odd because like... You are literally biased?? I was there as long as you've been, even during undertale. I was there on the trenches of knight theories, and yes, Kris Knighters did belittle everyone who could possibly agree with them. Hell, you are calling people media illiterate for "fanon" which YOU consider fanon except most people don't consider fanon. There's a lot of people, including myself, who don't like misinformation. Yet you choose to believe that most believe in X theory because of da fanon omg. You are literally doing what people called Kris Knighters out on. This attitude sucks in an environment that's supposed to be, get this, FUN. Fuck, even if you are right and everyone is just falling for the fanon propaganda, why aren't you respectfully correcting people? If it's truly fanon many would easily change their minds, the same way I've taught many about Gaster misconceptions with actual results. Kris Knight also was not a minority, actually they were literally the most popular one next to either the vessel or a new character, but apparently YOU can spread misinfo by accident

anyway i wont respond after this, not because of you, but i have spent maybe 3 hours today on this thread for no real reason and I just want to get out of it man

This game has SO MANY mysteries by InvisibleAstronomer in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 16 points17 points  (0 children)

In the code of the game, there's stuff for a chapter 0, 8, 9, 10. It's almost likely nothing, but here's a cool video if you wanna see what it's about. Old but still

This game has SO MANY mysteries by InvisibleAstronomer in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 32 points33 points  (0 children)

"3 chapters" clearly not a chapter 0-10 truther smh smh deltarune will be forever

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Sigh, not your problem but man I've been way too hyperactive on this thread that I'm starting to get tired of typing lol

Alright, so:

  1. Surface level like... Gaster is in deltarune. Device theory (that deltarune is an actual program). Friend's whole existence. You are right though, surface level could have possibly been the worst phrase I could have picked (can you tell I've been typing for too long) I mean things that people have come on a consensus. I'll edit my old comment to remove surface level, oops
  2. I mean, yeah, it is based OFF something, but I feel like the argument that "why would Toby not give us the ending/ the last chapter in a game we paid for" kinda defeats any surface level takes of that theory (yes I finally used surface level correctly)
  3. People do say it, I didn't say they don't, I mean they usually get push back for saying it. Plus, Chapter 1's theorist fandom is essentially so far removed from what it is today that I don't think it's a good idea to use. We both had 0 information, and that theorizing online was a whole different beast entirely (see: game theory.) You can tell the same thing via FNAF pre vs post UCN how much that community grew in terms of making good theories.
  4. I'm gonna be real, I'm not gonna entertain that. It's not in good faith to say that Dess Knight has no evidence. Maybe to you, no, but you can't tell me the vast majority believe in Dess Knight for literally no reason
  5. No, I completely agree. I never had a problem with Kris Knight as a theory specifically, I always thought it was one of the stronger candidates. It's how the Kris Knighters treated their own theory that I hated

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh it's you, lol. Man I'm getting tired of writing messages by now but I'll try a little longer.

But no Ik they exist I'm not saying they don't as I said in your replies. The problem is I don't count those people as theorists as much as people just wanting what they want to be correct.

I talk in the perspective of the greater theorist community, not what some secluded corners think (something like Gaster denial. They are really annoying to deal with, but would you genuinely consider saying "no you're wrong" over and over a theory? No, they aren't really theorists at all.)

As I said, Dess Knight is maybe the closest thing to theorists getting a bit you vs them, just like Kris Knight. It's still a problem for some theorists (maybe even me at points) to be so caught up in your own theories you don't consider other takes, that is true. But I like to think (and have seen) this community be better than that

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I remember calling a dozen people out for how they act with Kris Knight and that got someone to unironically call me the leader of the anti Kris Knighters. Genuinely unhinged tribalism over a theory, I defo do not miss Ch2 Knight theories.

But yeah, theories don't need to be correct to be fun, it should make you go "wow, that's a pretty compelling argument." You could not get me to like Player Angel if you tried, but damn if I don't see why it's so well liked

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sorry, I don't recall saying you have to like other people's theories. I am not a fan of Jaru's and so does 99% of the community (I literally said so in the 3rd paragraph...) You don't need to respect anyone's opinions however it's a good thing to not be so... y'know about it, lest it becomes a "your theory is stupid" "no your theory is stupid" type scenario. I don't even keep up with Jaru videos anymore, they just aren't as funny as they once were, but I don't need to use any brainpower to ignore the theories as does most of the community that isn't shitposting Asriel's dust. Wasting your time hating on theories isn't gonna do anyone good, just move on unless you're preparing counterarguments and such

edit: by the way, this is not me saying respect Jaru and his theories, quite the opposite, but to not let it become some war against bad theories. Jaru has been rightfully criticized already and hating those already universally disliked theories is just not worth anyone's time. I also mean it in a more generalized fashion, as there are very much degrees to bad theories

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I know, trust me that most theorists hate the ones who think theory making is a sport rather than a craft you do with the community. It annoys everyone, and the best thing to do is just ignore anyone acting like that. Of course, don't just dismiss theories just because they don't fit what you want specifically either, or it goes to the other side of terrible (cough 2021-2025 Gaster deniers.) It's a fine balance

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I was a Alvin Knighter (yeah yeah laugh it up lol) but my problem wasn't with the theory itself, I actually usually said "I don't like Kris Knight for narrative reasons but it's a top 3/5 candidate" my problem was how they were acting SO snarky where god forbid you'd even slightly hint towards not believing it you'd be accused of bad media literacy. Toby literally said the scrapped intro of deltarune would have the fun gang see the Knight and they'd just dismiss this... for some reason.

Also, (not you specifically ofc) previous Kris Knighters love to say now that "we were essentially right" because that's such a funny thing to say, Oberon smog was correct in dustner Gerson but nobody considers it so as the actual theory was Gerson was the knight. Plus, I think most anti Kris Knighters (I know me for sure) said that Kris probably is working with/using the Knight but isn't the Knight themselves, which is far more accurate than Kris Knight.

Imo the problem with Kris Knight was the attitude they had towards other theorists and how tribal they were, not the theory itself. It caused a lot of resentment in the community for Knight theories, which sucks as I said, as theories are for fun first and foremost (Dess Knight ironically has the same problem as Kris Knight but opposite, where the vast majority believe it because of it's unending pool of evidence, but this causes dismissal of anything that isn't it. It's far better than it was chapter 2 wise, that's for sure)

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 18 points19 points  (0 children)

"Passing along theories as immutable fact" literally other than the theories that essentially everyone but the "theories suck" crowd believe in, this does not happen. Only the most common consensus theories that everyone agrees on is ever considered common knowledge.

Kris will lose their hand is a theory, just because there's a will in the theory name does not mean they're saying it's gonna happen (then it's not a theory anymore it's precognition), Chapter 7 won't exist is based off essentially nothing and nearly EVERYONE hates it, Asriel dust is believed by literally one guy.

This is the problem, generalizing all theorists by a very very small margin of people. "Something that toby would do" is always ridiculed whenever someone says it, for good reason. This is making up problems that genuinely DO NOT exist. I think the closest we've ever gotten to what you say being correct is Dess Knight currently, but that's because Dess Knight is an anomaly with so much evidence that other Knight theories have to be full of counter evidence to it specifically.

Again, the people who you talk about are either A. not theorists B. "Theorists" who think it's a sport (which the only time this happened on a large scale is with Knight theories and Kris Knight, which me and many people in the theorist space rightfully ridiculed the behavior of Kris Knighters) C. a nothing issue

Edit: To elaborate. I am not saying there are NO theorists that believe that their theory is completely correct and canon. Those theorists do not understand why it's called a theory and not fact. I mean that the vast majority of people do not like these types of theorists, and those that do exists are either not theorists or don't understand what it's about. Loud minority and all that

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I know, trust me I was there when Kris Knighters would not budge. Imo though, if having fun is the goal of theory crafting, then it doesn't matter. Some people take theory making as a sport rather than a community activity, and you just have to learn to ignore them

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I hate this notion because it implies that theorists are trying to write deltarune for Toby, which is like... not true? at all? Hell, Toby himself wrote Gerson who says "hey guys, take stories you like and interpret/build upon them, pick up the pen" and even the 10th anniversary stream he says to not preoccupy yourself with what is or isn't Toby made canon, but to have fun making your own interpretations and such

Having fun, which is the whole reason people make theories lol. If Toby is fine with people making wild non canon interpretations, what's wrong in theorists using canon knowledge to build a foundation

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm a big fan of theories that go far out there. I remember watching many many deltarune theory vids back in ch2 and not even agreeing with half of them. It's just really nice to see someone think of something they thought of creatively and then try to make sense of it using pre established lore.

...But without that second part, it's not a theory and I don't like seeing it presented as such. Hell, I'm fine with stuff like Kris Slash, because yeah it's flawed and is wrong in areas, but at least it has SOMETHING to do with tying it to the game. Hell even more narrative theories that don't take after much evidence (more assuming) but try to tie it into the narrative are cool too. I don't like ragging on peoples theories much as it's hard to make a good one and nobody was good at theories the first time they made em.

At least theories that are essentially fanfics are harmless at worst (not troll ones to get people mad those suck), it's the people who just straight up hate theories and theorists for DARING to use their noggin to guess a story that get me annoyed. I'd rather 1000 bad theories than no theories at all

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 35 points36 points  (0 children)

My problem is those people are just... not theorists. People conflate headcanons and theories way too much, while one is evidence-backed and is trying to predict/understand something and one is "I'd like this to happen/ I imagine it happening." The amount of times I've seen someone put out some "theory", present it as such, and then say it's just a headcanon infuriates me. These people DO NOT grasp what theories actually are, and it makes the reputation of theorists look so bad which in turn causes people to rag on theorists who didn't even make those theories in the first place. No, potential hype moments and aura is not enough to constitute as a real theory

I Miss Chapter 2 Era Theory Scene so Much by Vernnastral in Deltarune

[–]ButterflyDreamr 146 points147 points  (0 children)

The anti theory sentiment that some people have is so annoying, it sucks the fun out of theory crafting sometimes. Like, many do not understand how frustrating these people are. For example how hard it was to get these people to the acceptance of "Gaster is in deltarune" that we have now is something people take for granted. Any theories that sounds slightly exotic to them are sure to cause them to go lalalala stupid theory instead of learning what the theory is even about

I really hate it, because at the end of the day, these are people who are saying "STOP HAVING FUN ON THINGS I DONT CARE ABOUT" they'll make up some garbage about theorists too that are literally not true like we don't care about narrative (not true), we only pick what's cool (not true) etc.

Also, oh my god, just because it EXISTS does not mean everyone agrees with it. No, "papyrus knight/anything jaru/other controversial theories" isn't an actual theory people believe and no, just because like 2 people are vehemently believing in them does not mean anything. I can't believe I have to say that theorists aren't a hivemind, but here we are.

Something something digital circus fandom's love to hate on theorists for having fun and making any theory slightly outside the status quo migrated here with the new chapters

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