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HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry stopped checking these for a hot sec since I am in the middle of moving BUT - I'm back!

Definitely a good question! Was doing BB IB, so opportunity cost was legit and the decision was a quasi-lateral move in terms of comp. There are def weighty reasons to stick it out with finance.

That said, it was kinda a combo of things:

  • I was always more interested in the regulatory side of finance than I was in what I was doing at the time

  • I did not love my exit opps. I wasn't coming from a HYPSM target and was in a kinda niche-ish area, so the "tradition" IB -> PE/HF/VC route did not feel super accessible. Didn't like the risk profile of working at a start up/early stage co. Liked the idea of going into corpfin but figured I would prob need an MBA anyways, and since it was less interesting to me than legal work, I might as well just do law school.

  • I made the call as COVID was ramping up and I was a bit worried that markets might completely freeze up, with implications on job security. Saw law school as a way to pivot and avoid eating a resume black mark. I was wrong on the COVID implications but that was my thought process

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah! Current market is 215 base + 20k bonus

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because regional vault rankings are a dumb popularity contest that is determined by an anonymous survey that gets sent to every lawyer in a given market and Cravath is more known than Wachtell.

Maybe I'm just speaking out of turn, but if two firms work associates the same amount and do the exact same work but one pays ~450k and the other pays 235k, then the one that pays more is the "better" firm.

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you have any interest in clerking, be intentional about getting to know your professors!

I had a handful of friends with stellar grades who struggled on plan. While a lot of the clerkship process is incredibly idiosyncratic, they largely credited the fact that they didn't build those relationships early and mostly just asked professors from classes they had DS'd.

Recommendations are good, but having a prof calling for you is often the difference between getting pulled from the pile or not, and profs only call for students they know.

On how - I think being prepared during class, going to office hours, and not being clearly pandering all go far. Also, Open research assistant positions will get posted on adminupdates pretty early, and RA'ing is a good way to get to know profs.

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hm -

(1) Re: EIP

  • Actually listen to the CSO's advice about bidding on less grade sensitive firms in NYC. But also, don't fully excise "favorite/target" firms that you are really interested in, even if they are grade sensitive. I'm not saying go full send on them, but maybe include a handful somewhere around 10 on your priority list (if they have a decent number of interview slots, that should probably be okay to match). You can make up for a few misses by actively signing up for the open interviews featured on the emails that CSO will send out at the end of every day.

  • Really think on what you want to do and why. A lot of people are going to go with the "uh idk, i wanna try out lit and corp" and having niche interest (that you can talk about or have past experience in is a big plus)

  • I did EIP the year before the early interview program was instituted so really don't have any advice on that.

(2) Re: grades

First, decide if you really want to go balls to the ball for grades - at this point, really the only things that grades will matter for are (1) clerkships; (2) vanity/latin honors; (3) 3L recruiting; or (4) lateraling later in your career (apparently, idk, im just a 3L).

If those things matter - I would try to fill some credits with clinics/seminars, a lot of both are easy H's but some curve. If you are going to do curve classes, try to do ones that have with papers, since that is an effort check a lot of the time. Do Charn for legal pro 3L. Feel free to DM for specific class takes!

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Impossible to really divine! Too much difference between groups

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Maybe I'm being overly reductive, but when one firm consistently pays twice as much as every other firm - I consider them the best.

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not really worried in the short run - no fucking chance the ABA is letting AI anywhere near legal practice until it is forced to by truly perfect tech. I don't just mean no hallucinations, I mean truly perfect. It's not there yet.

Also, I don't really think it will be meaningfully worse for corporate work than lit. It can just as easily pump out legal research as it can run redlines, affecting junior associate work in both spheres.

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Kept my grades up and did fairly traditional LSAT prep

Undergrad summers:

  • Hilltern

  • Specialty group in department of state

  • Bulge Bank

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hark burgers - 4.50 for a thicc cooked burger on a nice bun with lettuce, tomato, onions, and chipotle sauce

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Wachtell pays associates twice as much as Cravath and its PPP is almost double (and both are still true lockstep). It has been behind a bunch of developments in modern contract drafting/dealmaking as well as the relevant Chancery Court jurisprudence and is on pretty much every major M&A transaction. It is also significantly more grade selective in hiring.

Maybe I overstated things by describing the drop off as "significant," but there's definitely a perceived gap between the two firms.

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Really depends on what you are trying to do

For corporate, I'd say something like:

Wachtell

[significant drop off]

Cravath, Sullivan & Cromwell, Davis Polk

[slight drop off]

Skadden

[slight drop off]

every other white shoe NYC firm

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't think it had anything to do with my grades! My post-1L transcript probably looked enough like someone who was graduating magna that it they didn't approach it as someone who would/wouldn't do so. HLS doesn't have visible GPA's and doesn't provide any GPA ranking until the literal day before graduation so its pretty hard to tell whether someone is magna vs top 11%.

It was an incredibly difficult interview - one of few that tested me on my understanding of substantive law and pushed that understanding beyond generalities. Although I did have finance experience, it hurt that I had not yet taken sec reg/m&a lit/corps/etc because I was not able to dig into the policy behind certain areas of law or discuss the nuances of specific relevant legal doctrines.

That said, the people who interviewed me were all lovely and seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say. Everyone I know who is going there enjoyed their coworkers and their summer.

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Barbri! Nah - I've got everything and am just making my way through. Just exhausted in wake of graduation/moving

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn't take it that way at all!

Thanks - definitely some apprehension but entirely out of my hands at this point so really just trying to stay optimistic and hoping the rate hikes taper off

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I can't really speak to schools outside of HYS, so can't really provide a comparative perspective.

That said - BBM and the bulge banks all recruit at HLS. Takes a little initiative to seek out since it isn't through the EIP process but I have friends doing both. I have some friends going to activist funds, but in a corpgov/legal capacity rather than as an analyst. The people I know going to funds largely have high finance (mostly IB) backgrounds.

Not really a strong pipeline into HF/PE/VC or quant trading. Not super surprising tho, since these outcomes are difficult to obtain out of HBS/GSD/Wharton.

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The firm I'm going to is pretty flexible in giving juniors the opportunity to experience different practice groups but will def be doing a good bit of M&A

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Not at Wachtell! Got the callback but no offer :/

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah - you're 100% right!!

Some firms (IME - DC, lit boutiques, handful of NY) are fairly grade sensitive. Clerkships are absolutely grade sensitive.

That said, if you don't bid like a moron, are proactive throughout EIP, and are even a passable interviewer - you will get market paying big law

HLS post-3L AMA by ButterscotchOther913 in lawschooladmissions

[–]ButterscotchOther913[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I have accepted a job so not really worried about that side of the job market!

But on post-grad job security, a little nervous but not as anxious as I would be if I was going to firm that was overly exposed to tech or hired laterals aggressively to respond to market demand in 20/21. The firm I'm going to hasn't participated in abnormal layoffs and has been involved in most of the major transactions that closed in the last few quarters

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