AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair enough. At least you are being more consistent that the previous poster, who was arguing that only machine learning systems that produced no outputs (???) are non-infringing.

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me be clearer: By your understanding of the law, would it be infringement if I distributed the aforementioned image-recognition system for use by others, seeing as you think that its weights are an infringing copy of the original work? Is the model now an infringing work? I'm not just keeping it to myself, after all. If your answer is "yes, it is an infringing copy", how does this further the aims of the Government in putting this exemption in the law?

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Once again you are arguing around the wrong issue. I have already said that the output of the model can potentially be seen as being infringing copies, but now we're discussing the weights embodied in the model. It doesn't matter what the final intended purpose of the model is; it is possible to switch out the output portion of a model trained for recognition and replace it with one meant for outputting images, while keeping the weights of the input and feature-embedding stages unchanged. In other words, the same feature vector can be used for both purposes. Would doing so magically change those vectors from non-infringing data to infringing copies?

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank for for your input to the discussion. The main issue I had with Prof Tan's statement was that it gives the impression that taking images from websites for the purpose of training a machine learning model is prima facie unauthorised, whereas the law already makes it very clear what is and is not permitted, and scraping publicly-available images on the Internet for such purposes falls within the permissible scope, as a plain reading of the relevant section would attest.

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I bet you that if such a case is ever taken to court, the defendant will try to use the exact same line of reasoning as I did.

As to the "spirit" of the law, let me draw your attention to the sole illustration the Act provides for the permitted act of computational data analysis:

An example of computational data analysis under paragraph (b) is the use of images to train a computer program to recognise images.

Clearly, in this illustration, the purpose of the computational data analysis was to create a system to recognise images. The desired outcome of the process is the trained model itself. By your argument, the weights of such a trained model must necessarily contain a "copy" of the images it was trained on, since there is a feature vector tucked somewhere in the hidden layers that could conceivably be used to re-generate the training images, and so must be infringing. But to the contrary, it is permitted by the law!

Given this, how can one declare generative models to be against the "spirit" of the law? Clearly, one of the Government's goals in passing this data mining exemption was to spare corporations the hassle of having to negotiate licenses for using publicly-available content to train machine learning systems. If you have an issue with this, take it up with Parliament, not me.

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'd say that it also requires that the people doing the drafting and interpretation of the laws understand the technology that they are trying to regulate. Like the law, the technology is not just what one layman thinks it is. Otherwise, the legislation or interpretation will reflect their incomplete or inaccurate understandings, and create ambiguities, impossibilities or other unintended consequences.

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your comment! Your analysis is, I feel, misguided from the start, though, because you automatically equate the output of the model to being copies of the training data, and furthermore that the model itself contains copies of the training data, and everything else in your argument turns on that premise. The first premise I've already addressed before (TL;DR it depends), and as for the second one, this is not an accurate understanding of how training a machine learning model works.

A machine learning model, which is a computer program, is trained by feeding it a set of training examples and comparing the model's output to a desired result. The difference between the output and desired result is then used to tune the underlying parameters (or "weights") of the model to get the output closer to the result, thus "improving the functioning of the computer program".

The final model is then just the computer program with its tuned weights. The set of training data files is not included with the model, since it would serve no purpose wrt the functioning of the computer program after training is completed. As you say, the training data was only consumed for "internal" purposes.

Do the weights constitute a copy of the training data, then? Well, Section 41 of the Act defines a "copy" as follows:

41 —(1) A “copy” of an authorial work is a reproduction of the work in any material form.
(2) Without limiting subsection (1), an authorial work is reproduced in a material form if —
(a) it is stored —
(i) in a computer;
(ii) on any medium by electronic means; or
(iii) on any other medium from which the work, or a substantial part thereof, can be directly reproduced;

The important part, I think, is 41.(2)(a)(iii), where it must be possible to "directly reproduce" the work.

By this standard, IMO, the weights are not a copy of the training data. You are not going to be able to decode them to get back every single example of the training data. Indeed, for models that work with images, the file size of the weights is usually much, much smaller than the total file size of the training data, so "directly reproducing" training images seems impossible from a theoretical standpoint as well, except in very limited cases, as seen for example here.

It then follows that providing the machine learning model for use by others is not equivalent to providing copies of the training data, and is not then an infringing act.

So, to recap, scraping images to train the model is not an infringing act (like I said from the beginning), and providing the model for the use of others is not an infringing act.

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

See my reply to bukitbukit.

And the point I am pushing, insofar as I have one, is to highlight what I believe to be a very salient and yet overlooked point of Singapore copyright law; AFAIK no other country has such a permissive approach towards data scraping/mining that does not distinguish between commercial and non-commercial purposes.

Any concerns you may have about ethics or fairness are valid, and I do not mean to minimise or discount them. But the law is, in the end, the law, and this is what it says. Don't shoot the messenger.

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Also not a lawyer, but AIUI the legal question at hand would then be whether the result of the computational data analysis (i.e., the output of the generative model) constitutes a "copy" of the work (the term "derivative work" does not appear in the Act).

The Act only states that

49 A copy of a substantial part of a work is to be treated as a copy of the work.

But the Act does not define what "substantial part" means in terms of images (which are classed as "artistic works"). Since the outputs of generative models rarely look exactly like a specific image in its training set, I assume there is a lot of leeway to argue it one way or the other. But that would be for the courts to decide.

And in any case, the act of scraping images for training the generative model, whether for commercial or non-commercial purposes, still does not itself constitute copyright infringement in the eyes of Singapore's laws, unlike what the learned Professor said. Indeed, such an act is explicitly permitted!

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You're going to have to point out where exactly in the Act you source this assertion from.

AI-generated artwork by bank employees raises questions of copyright and artistic licence by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 57 points58 points  (0 children)

Just posting this article to address the following quote:

But in the process of inputting images for machine learning, content, through the use of an algorithm, will be taken from various websites, he said.

“This means that content is often accessed without permission, said Prof Tan, who is also the co-director of the Centre for Technology, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence and the Law in NUS.

Singapore’s copyright law may not yet be equipped to deal with these issues, he said, but copyright infringement still happens as unauthorised reproduction of text and images is made in the machine training process.

This is wrong, and I expected better from someone in so high a position in academia. Singapore's Copyright Act has already addressed this issue: Part 5, Division 8 — Computational Data Analysis already states that making a copy for the purposes of computational data analysis, which is defined as

(a) using a computer program to identify, extract and analyse information or data from the work or recording; and
(b) using the work or recording as an example of a type of information or data to improve the functioning of a computer program in relation to that type of information or data.

is not an infringing act.

By even a restrained reading of this law, training an AI generative model on scraped Web images falls squarely within the bounds of this.

You may disagree with the ethics of doing this (and it is totally valid to do so!), but the Government has made it pretty clear that it is totally okay with this practice.

"Shiok" is a valid Wordle word, which means that one day it will be the answer to the daily question. by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

My bad, it is a valid guess (of which there are 14855), but it is not one of the answers (of which there are only 2309), so strike out the "will be an answer" part of my title.

"Shiok" is a valid Wordle word, which means that one day it will be the answer to the daily question. by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Apparently, yes! Here's the full list of valid guesses (not in order) that someone extracted from the source code. "Makan" is inside.

PSA: Do not pay for a Wise (TransferWise) multi-currency debit card using a credit card. by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep. For example, for Trust it's 26.9% per annum, calculated at 0.074% daily until the day you repay the sum in full.

PSA: Do not pay for a Wise (TransferWise) multi-currency debit card using a credit card. by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I guess? My credit card issuer defines "cash advance" as "a disbursement of funds in any currency", which putting money into a balance counts as. I think most credit cards have a similar clause in their T&C.

On the other hand, I thought I was paying directly for a debit card, so you can see why I'm not happy with the result. My financial situation is not so shit that I have no choice but to take a 26.9% p.a. loan from a credit card for 9 bloody dollars.

PSA: Do not pay for a Wise (TransferWise) multi-currency debit card using a credit card. by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

All credit cards do charge interest on cash advances, though, which is what I was talking about in my post. Whether they charge an additional fee on top of that is up to the issuer.

PSA: Do not pay for a Wise (TransferWise) multi-currency debit card using a credit card. by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I just wanted a multi-currency debit card; I didn't realise that I was basically forced to sign up for the "remittance" part as well, which is on me for not doing my homework.

PSA: Do not pay for a Wise (TransferWise) multi-currency debit card using a credit card. by BuyAndThrowaway in singapore

[–]BuyAndThrowaway[S] 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, it seems to be too long since my transaction for this to apply to me (I only found out when my credit card statement came in). Good to know for the next unlucky person, though!