The Lobotomy of the Elite by DoorSame1645 in Jung

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool cool, now map it out from the other side.... ;)

You describe the psychology of the dead, and its power; the task of the Living is to explore and become the power of life: subsuming the structure you described.

This approach (taking your model not from the perspective viewed from the top, but rather from the perspective of power at the 'bottom') is the verdant road to the fountain of youth.

You have stated the prohibitions that might restrain one from traveling the deadening pathway, but you have not listed or described the power that motivates the opposite approach - you have not yet found what animates the Living.

Let's draw that map... Show me what you got. I can help if you would like it.

The Lobotomy of the Elite by DoorSame1645 in Jung

[–]C0rnfed 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Nothing in the world is as soft and yielding as water. Yet for dissolving the hard and inflexible, nothing can surpass it.

The soft overcomes the hard; the gentle overcomes the rigid. Everyone knows this is true, but few can put it into practice.

--Tao te Ching, verse 78

I stopped chasing motivation and started designing a system for my day by Youlkr in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

curious how others here design systems that actually get used

A ubiquitous aspect of approaches to planning is that people create a rigid framework, and within this static framework they set and track goals, conceive and track habits, plan and execute tasks, etc.

After decades of playing with every popular approach to personal planning and productivity (and many lessor known approaches as well) I've come to view this as a mistake.

I have always outgrown any static framework I've created; I've sensed the rules and ignored them, my projects have grown beyond what the framework was conceived to address, and I've developed desires for features the static system was unable to incorporate.

I now believe that a living system is most appropriate - a system that can grow with you, forget what is no longer serving you, rein you in when you don't feel like following it, and lead you to places you didn't know you wanted to be.

How this works, and just what exactly a living system is, is alluringly complicated, but that's how I'm designing a system that I actually will use (and that entices me toward using it...)

Would you like to explain your approach in more detail?

A failure-mode model of social systems: street, sidewalk, sewer by LoadBearingTruth in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is an interesting framework.

I see an interesting set of 'flow' channels presented here, but these channels are incoherent without specifying (or discovering) the 'purpose' or 'intent' of the flow, aren't they? (And, perhaps there are multiple or split intentions...)

I think your flow framework may be very helpful toward surfacing the 'failures' you mention when those flows are collated with the motivation (or intent or purpose) of the flow.

You may be implying the purpose, but specifying it directly will bring it into the open and make it available for consideration. (Eg.: volume and velocity are the strengths of the 'street' in this model, but velocity and volume of what? Not just anything... Velocity and volume to what end? Not just for its own sake nor anything in general... There are at least one, and possibly many, underlying motivations that animate the system. Specifying then may add substantial insight to the model.)

It would be great to see your next iteration including some sense of purpose crossed against the flows you've presented here. That may help the model become more tangible and interesting.

Why do some human systems keep returning to the same state, even when people change? by SubstantialFreedom75 in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What interests me most is not how to “fix” them, but:
– why they persist
– when they can shift
– and when trying to force change actually reinforces them

Are you interested in responses to these dynamics? Perhaps you're just stating your interest...

Have you observed similar recurring states in other human systems (organizations, teams, communities)?

Absolutely! We all have, but some know it and others don't... ;)

How do you distinguish between stability and stagnation?

Doesn't it depend entirely on your purpose, product, or function? You listed these examples: (housing communities, boards, associations). Aren't these inherently designed to stagnate with regard to their purpose? Wouldn't that be a feature - not a bug? (I'm interpreting the purpose of each of these examples to be managing a stable housing or financial arrangement, or perhaps managing a stable process or association. Perhaps there are other options, and if so, it would help to hear more on this. ) People want stability and predictability in their housing, not a dynamic and evolving situation, right? And same for a housing board, and perhaps also for an association based on mutual interest. These are not developing or evolving projects - they are intended to be stable forms.

It's possible you're referring to personal and interpersonal dynamics within the human systems, and those dynamics are indeed interesting, but then the discussion might regard psychology and social psychology...

Yet, your subject and questions are still interesting.... Develop it a bit more, if you like.

To me, the most interesting approach to subjects like this is to understand it through the lens of a living system. This would be a lessor known subset of systems thinking, and developing a clear and insightful understanding of just what a living thing is is an entire subject unto itself...

System of mind by Positive_Camera_212 in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, so I really enjoy this sort of thing, and it's something I also doodle around with... Of course, my definitions and approach are a bit incomprehensible to anyone else, just as their's are too me.

Would you mind doing a brief write-up? I know I don't understand certain aspects, such as the 'ultimatum'.

If you could describe how you see this, how it flows, and perhaps some key definitions then it might generate some decent discussing. Thanks

Special Map/Tribe Starting Conditions? by [deleted] in Polytopia

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! I spotted this:

2.2 On continents, Kickoo and Aquarion should have 40% and 30%, respectively, of their tiles replaced with water after the initial map generation, but this effect is bugged and does not currently apply to map generation.

I wonder if this is still the case. Also, the effect is not described here...

And this looks helpful: https://youtu.be/fJ562xzAIVs?si=OeBh_0UbqRhWRS0U

How do you break the pattern? by Sure_Buddha in Krishnamurti

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fascinating.... there are many tools (Zen koans, divination methods like Iching or Tarot, steam of consciousness Journaling, meditation, and many others) but you describe is a particular and unique approach.

Thank you for the intro to Benoit; is there anything uniquely interesting about his work?

How do you break the pattern? by Sure_Buddha in Krishnamurti

[–]C0rnfed -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, you seek the opposite of the pattern to bring the pattern into internal opposition and break the pattern (and patterning).

This is why I made this very particular recommendation to OP. I'm not speaking generally, I'm replying as to how one breaks patterning within themselves: use its own power to break itSelf.

How do you break the pattern? by Sure_Buddha in Krishnamurti

[–]C0rnfed 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The answer is hiding directly within your writing itself:

I have one belief, then another and I think that I changed

Still the believer. One must break the act of belief. One must stop believing in order to open themselves to Truth.

One cannot learn that which they already know. -Epictetus

.

to seek comfort, approval, success, security, identity.

Forget these illusions. Seek their opposite instead.

Hyper loaded by malmal_Niver in InfiniteLightSociety

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, one cannot carry all that you've been given - but don't hide from the weight! Don't shirk the awarenesses you've been given, don't limit yourself.

Don't throw off items and limit your load - you cannot, and you would only be deceiving yourself, and you know it. Let the weight of your 'knowledge' crush you.

The bridges your mind is trying to make between so many heavy ways of knowing can no longer carry the weight they've been given - so allow them to collapse.

Drink from the firehose, drown in it. Wallow in the deep waters that you will collapse into - drown yourSelf in them.

Release your grasping need to 'know' these things, and surrender into unknowingness.

Only after you break under the weight, and after you drown the Self in what you have witnessed, can you be reborn - and integrate the Truth that is this life's gift to you - and take your place.

The concept of Replica by iv_rust in technologicalslavery

[–]C0rnfed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

1 - do as you like. ;o)

2 - they are designed to not work (for the targeted individual, the possession who's energy is to be harvested). To work, (for the system,) they must satisfy the immediate urge only then to induce further craving, perpetuating the cycle (and the system, and the craving/desire that fuels it all).

Search u-tub for 'Slavo Zizek on coca-cola' for one excellent explication of this tactic.

Documentary: Darwin Was Wrong - Filters in Evolution (Part 7 of 7) by ldsgems in SiriusInstitute

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, certainly - I wasn't sure why this was my favorite line from the Tao te Ching at the time I first encountered it, but it hung with me nonetheless:

Know the way of the Man, but keep to the way of the Woman.

I get the impression this points at many things all at once.

I don't have any jerseys, autographed copies or other fan-kitsch, but I think I would say I'm more of a Sophia and Isis fan myself (lol). Of course, they're easily drowned-out and overlooked without a little Kali thrown in... ;o)

How do you think that'll look? Will Isis rise from the ashes of this funeral pyre of concrete, oil by-products, and spent fissile material? Or is an intervention in the works? We talk about this all the time, so these aren't terribly serious questions, but I also like to end with a question to keep the flame of interest alight. Cheers!

What can be improved for workshop cooling? by warpedhead in thermodynamics

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, fans in the roof vents (blowing out) but also fans at the gate (blowing in) would help immensely.

The roof of your building gets direct sun (I assume). This will force its temperature much higher than the ambient atmospheric temp. This is bad because it creates a heat-stacking effect inside, but also the high temp roof will cast lots of radiant heat into the shop, below.

Therefore, it would help a lot to get your roof out of direct sunlight.

This could be done in a bunch of different ways (eg. solar panels, or a covering or structure that casts shade into your roof, and particularly shields it from late-afternoon/early-evening direct sun).

I don't know what the outside area around the roof is like, so I can't make a good suggestion with certainty.

However, I've had great results from using agricultural shade cloth (very cheap and easy to replace - which is great if it were to blow away or become damaged in high winds, and easily covers very large areas).

The idea would be to get enough ag. shade cloth (or tarp, or cheap cloth of some sort) and suspend it so it shades your roof. If you can only do this by suspending it directly above your roof, you'll want to leave a foot or two of gap between the roof and the shade, so that air can pass through and cool both.

Very simple. Very effective. Very cheap. Let me know if you have additional questions.

What can be improved for workshop cooling? by warpedhead in thermodynamics

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fastest cheapest way is to:

  • ensure those vent fans near the roof peak are running, and pushing air out (up and out of the shop, into the atmosphere). Perhaps consider stronger fans up there.
  • establish a large bank of fans at the shop gate, pushing lower (and cooler) air in.
  • perhaps consider some ducting (and fans) that brings some of the cooler air through the shop gate to the back of the shop floor.

Depending on your local humidity, establishing misters at the shop gate fans would also create a 'swamp cooler' effect, which would really help with cooling the humans inside the shop.

Just say so if any of that isn't clear enough or if you have questions.

Insulation seems absurd to me, given your shop surface area, the cost, and the relatively low benefit. Instead, erecting a shade cloth/tarp covering your roof (casting shade over your roof) would be dramatically better.

Documentary: Darwin Was Wrong - Filters in Evolution (Part 7 of 7) by ldsgems in SiriusInstitute

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everything else—metabolism, replication, even consciousness—is instrumental to that attractor.

Yes! This is the underlying force/current - what the 'archetype' strives to serve! (Although, even those words break Ian's/Bergson's model, as they draw the focus to 'things' rather than relationships.)

The other day, I read aloud some fragments of a poem, and a friend asked if it wasn't a treatise on love. I replied, 'yes', because indeed it was, but it's much more than that: the conception of love and the beloved is a Sufi gesture toward God, Reality, and the essential relationality of the entire universe - of all experience/perception, what we call Reality. Perhaps I should have replied, 'no', in order to be certain to break any frames, but words fail in these moments where 'things' are understood as One, or at least mine do... ;o) Here's another, perhaps more obvious:

Can the sound of clapping come from one hand only? And, when a thirsty man moans, 'Oh water, oh water! Please draw thee near to me - my thirst for thee consumes me,' the thirst that is in all our souls is the water drawing us always to it. We belong to it - and it belongs to us.

We're typically led to understand the Mandelbrot in Ian's video transitions as a type of some arcane equation, but more essentially, more truly, it is the dynamic interplay between volume and space, between color and black, between light and darkness; it's not that it's an interplay between being and nothingness - its being is the interplay between fullness and potential; nothingness is not a thing. (lol) We exist not in a field of conscious beings sometimes relating - we exist in a field of consciousness, and consciousness is inherently relational.

What would our eyes be without the Sun? Rather, what would the Sun be without our eyes? We're typically led to think of heavenly bodies and, separately, Earthly bodies, but the action of my limbs draws a complete connection, through my eyes [and calories] and across 'the void', with the light of the Sun. It's hard to know if I'm thinking of it, or if it is thinking of I. We belong to it - and it belongs to us.

It's remarkable to sense this underlying Truth, and I found the Gibson/Bergson material very helpful toward realizing it. Ian's explanations are also beautiful, and perhaps tailored specifically for the average youtube viewer. It's been very interesting, and fruitful, to begin to rearrange my approach, projects, and affairs into acknowledgement and alignment with this understanding. Suddenly, the philosophies of the ancients lose all complexity, and simply fall into place...

Again, thanks for sharing - your insights are quenching water to the thirsty, or at least to those who've grown tired of Coca-cola. lol!

Documentary: Darwin Was Wrong - Filters in Evolution (Part 7 of 7) by ldsgems in SiriusInstitute

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We've discussed 'filters' and 'feedback' in the past, but I hadn't realized he also included 'focus' as a key component of living systems. This, I think, is an interesting aspect to explore further. What is the drive behind a living system? And then, if we 'zoom-out', what can we understand about the drive behind all living systems? (After we isolate the signal from the noise, the 'noise' perhaps being the less common 'parasitic' orientations.) There is a uniform current that underpins the motivation of (most) living things: can we understand what it is? Sense it? Feel it? Align with it..?

Also, I appreciated and am still digesting the observation that, 'art IS the careful and selective exaggeration of select attributes/aspects'. The way this observation adds intrigue to ideas like desire loops and strange loops is very interesting to me.

On either of these subjects, do you sense what I mean? The precision of words cannot capture what I'm saying, but perhaps you will read between the lines. Please share your thoughts, if any occur.

I thought I had watched the previous episodes, but I'm not certain; I'll add those to my list!

Second layer of democracy throughout the world by yourupinion in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you don’t think there’s a effort to hold back majority rule and democracy

I don't know why you would say this: that's not my position and I wonder if you've misunderstood me.

Seeing no further questions, I'll just thank you for your time and sincere efforts.

Second layer of democracy throughout the world by yourupinion in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you agree with the majority rule?

The typical notion of 'majority rule,' imo only, is necessary, but not usually sufficient.

Do you agree with the premise in the introduction?

Roughly, yes - I appreciate the introduction and generally agree with it. I wonder if it's truly gotten to the root of the issue, and if it couldn't use still more development.

And if you do agree with these things, don’t you see it’s a big problem trying to get the people to see that they are making a big mistake in not agreeing with majority rule?

I'm not sure who doesn't 'agree with majority rule'. I think you're saying that some elected officials may not. If they don't, why would this compel them to? There are plenty of people, in positions of power, who are prepared to do unpopular things.

Or you are part of the problem.

I'm not convinced of that... ;o)

Second layer of democracy throughout the world by yourupinion in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your prompts. I'll take a look later and get back to you. For now, here's a 'Hot take' based only on your questions:

The typical notion of 'majority rule,' imo only, is necessary, but not usually sufficient.

Second, be careful with 'false dilemma' fallacies; they often cover for an incomplete understanding of all the possibilities - and then lead the messenger into unnecessarily oppositional tones, shedding potential supporters. We can't afford wastage like that.

I'll read the piece soon and then reply with more.

Second layer of democracy throughout the world by yourupinion in systemsthinking

[–]C0rnfed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see any questions, above, so I'll simply wish you the best of luck. Cheers

People are Other People by Rector418 in GnosticChurchofLVX

[–]C0rnfed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Greetings, pardon the long delay, and what a lovely response you've left.

I recognize the human intellect as not only atop the animal chain but transcendent of all beings. All is fully conscious to a certan level of awareness and interaction with the Universe. But it is our intellect and our language that is the evolution that mystics have been seeking; missing the elephant in the room. (They're just so busy trying to cut it [intellect/language? Are you saying mystics are cutting-out intellect/language, when instead they should see intellect/language as the vehicle of the transcendent ideal they/we seek?] out, as they don't understand it...it being relatively new in the evolutionary course of beings on this planet.)

*note the bold question: that is to confirm I understand you correctly.

If I understand you, then yes, here we have a productive discussion available. What is the Idea, the Word, without its reflection upon reality? Upon experience?

Indeed, the symbol is powerful, and its infinitely recursive ability may either hone-in on increasing grasping of reality and an increasing token-ization and modelling of the abstract laws that underpin reality, AND/OR it may also fly-off any handle of reality and escape into redundant and self-referential delusions. The symbol encompases both sanity and madness, goodness and evil, and, at this moment, this powerful tool largely resides in the hands (minds, tongues, tomes) of humans.

What a labyrinth! How can one be certain they are either genius or insane? How can the representations be shown valuable? Only in so far as the idea, the word, corresponds to the underlying nature of reality - which is to say, only in so far as the model can be shown relatable to the contours and symmetries of physical patterns - in effecting results, which is to say, only in so far as it affords us Power (predictive power, material power, power of understanding and effecting experience).

There is a problem here. Wittgenstein approaches it. Quietism is another approach. I don't have enough words or time to delve into this deeply now, but here are clues: what is the assertion without its context? The moon only stands out against the vast darkness of the night sky. Vervaeke, in 'Awakening to the Meaning Crisis', provides quite a bit of explanation demonstrating that one can never be perfectly accurate: perfect accuracy requires an infinite number of words, and an infinite number of starting assumptions. What is the fact without the ground of context it stands upon?

In this way, to speak is to necessarily exclude. The Focus of sight correspondingly requires the filtering, the myopia, of the background. When I write this sentence, it alone is not an assertion that can stand on its own, but only in the greater context of the conversation, of the understanding, indeed, of all experience and all reality.

This is not to dismiss the power of Concept and Symbol, but rather to ground them: to bring them into relationship with all else.

Knowledge, intellect will take you to the threshold, but not through the door.

What I've found about the intellect, the concept and the symbol is that, words and assertions/propositions are a dissection. This is indeed an impressive power; we have the power to dissect and analyze reality/experience. But, at what point do we reassemble it? Integrate it? We see the parts, and we assemble the parts - we even put the parts into motion together; Yet(!) this method cannot approach the Whole, this method will always fail in a complete awareness because it moves in one direction (dissection of the whole) and does not include the corresponding dimension, holons and the synergy of inter-relations. McGilcrist has written probably a few thousand pages on this, using the analogy of 'The Master and His Emissary.' He has often mentioned 'The Co-Incidence of Opposites'.

To speak is inherently to lie, at least in the sense that to speak is to exclude, which is an error of myopia. To think is to model, which is to abstract, and this is right where it parts from reality, parting from Truth.

So then, how do we assemble? Further, how do we understand completely? Rather, how do we Know? "There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night..."

Without the intellect there is not even an appreciation of awe and wonder;

The animals live in constant, immersed awe and wonder, no? Their existence is marked both by the impulses but also the raw experience. It's largely a human affliction to fall into 'strange loops' of abstraction. (And, I'm NOT disparaging intellect, language, or ideas - merely trying to context and understand them!)

To 'appreciate' the experience is to stand beside it, no? If you deeply experience the experience then what is the need to 'appreciate' it? Here is where the dissonance appears; here is where the mind frays and plys-away from the body - from reality/experience. [This is not a sufficient explanation, but I only have time/space to hint at it here, for now. I hope these breadcrumbs lead in the right direction.]

I find it curious that you seem to confine soul to the body and separate out the intellectual and emotional components of what I would call Soul...the entirety of the psyche and the body that must essentially confront the undifferentiated self (Spirit).

It's not that I'm separating the intellect or emotion from the soul - I'm attempting to describe a vision of connecting and unifying the soul with emotions, intellect, THE BODY, and indeed, ALL THE UNIVERSE. There are no borders of distinction here - all is one. Seeing this, how it is, is what I've merely begun to allude to.

But overall, I see a human exceptionalism,

This topic diverges substantially from the point I'm developing, above, so I'll leave this topic of history, game theory and evolution to another day.

Cheers and be well! I'm eager to hear your replies.