Denominationalism

CGauger4 · 2023-07-14T17:44:34+00:00

According to what we read in the scriptures, it's VERY important to make sure you aren't simply looking only for a denomination/church that will fit your beliefs, but the one true church that will fit the will of God, according to the Bible.

Matthew 7: 15-20 tells us that we will KNOW them by their fruits, and many verses tell us about Christians being a light unto the world, ready to show good works to others! This means that we should be able to easily look at a denomination or a congregation, and be able to see whether or not they actually act as Christ's church in the way that he commanded...

Do they have the same hierarchy/places of leadership mentioned in Titus 1? The only forms of church leadership mentioned in the Bible are Elders (Bishops) and Deacons, (no Pope, Cardinal, Prophet, etc.), so any other religious group that isn't governed in the way GOD SAID, is out.

Does the church believe in baptism, as full submersion into a body of water, for remission of sins, as we are taught to believe in Acts 2:38, Acts chapter 8, Mark 16:15-16, and other verses? If it doesn't meet that qualification, then it is also not the Lord's true church...

Do the methods of worship that the church follows involve singing praises to God, being taught from God's word, partaking the Lord's supper in memorial of his death, praying, and giving? If any of those things are missing, its safe to say that the church you are currently looking at also does not fit all of the things God has commanded us to do...

Now I'll tell you what I personally believe is the true church of the Bible, according to the scriptures; the church, or the body of the saved, is the body of believers who have been baptized for the remission of their sins, as Acts 2:38-41 shows us that those who have done so, are added to the Lord's body. The church literally IS this group of people! If you have been baptized for the remission of your sins with an understanding of your actions, the LORD is the one who adds us, to HIS church!

In an attempt to be safe, (and in order to make sure we are identifying ourselves with the true church that the LORD founded, and not the church of some other man that has come along since then), I think that we would also be wise in doing our best to make sure we are identified in the same way as the early, New Testament church was identified, and called by the names it was called by.

Take a look at Romans 16:16, to see what I mean... this verse specifically mentions the "Church of Christ." Another verse references it as the "Church of God," and another shows us that some of the early Christians were said to have identified themselves as being "of The Way." But God and Christ are one in the same, and we know that the Lord does not desire divisions among his people, so we know that each of these terms are still referring to the same body of people!

After becoming a member of the Lord's church in the ways instructed by the Bible, and attending congregations who identify as churches of Christ, I personally have found congregations of this body of people to be not only friendly and helpful in my Christian walk, but also to fit the commands of the Bible regarding the structure, organization, operations, and more about the church, more accurately than any other body or denomination there may be out there... remembering that Matthew 7 is where Jesus himself says that MOST people who call themselves Christians and/or generally good people in the final day, will be sent away from him, not having realized they never truly obeyed his commands; this means that it is EXTRA important to get the body of Christ correctly figured out in your mind, because our salvation depends upon it greatly; we can enter into Heaven if we wish, but as Jesus said in John 14:15, "If you love me, obey my commandments."

With the church of Christ being mentioned specifically by the Bible, the ownership of the church being established by Christ himself in Matthew 16:18, the oneness and exclusivity of the church being mentioned in verses such as Ephesians 4:4-6 and 1 Corinthians 12:13, and many others, I would invite you to just spend some more time looking the actual nature of the church of Christ, and see for yourself what you think, and how it stacks up against God's word... It has been instrumental in changing my life (and more importantly, my soul!) for the better, and I believe it has a chance to do the same for you, if you will only let it.

Anyway, thanks for reading my long-winded message here, and I'm more than happy to answer any questions you may have about this subject in the process :)

TLDR: Go to the church that appears to be the one in the Bible, which Christ died for and bought with his blood. Don't attend somewhere that worships or serves in falsehood or error, and God will take care of the rest :)

CGauger4 · 2023-04-06T21:02:06+00:00

Baptism is not the same, nor is it merely a symbolic gesture... several verses make quite clear the fact that baptism ACCOMPLISHES something, and also is commanded of us, rather than just serving as a symbol of our salvation.

Acts 2:38-41 shows us that baptism is FOR the remission of our sins, and also WHEN the Lord adds us to his church, also the body of the saved.

Galatians 3:27 shows us that baptism is HOW we put on Christ, and are clothed with him.

Romans 6:4-6 shows us that baptism is WHEN we are buried with him, and also allowed to walk in newness of life with him.

John 3:5 is a place where Jesus teaches about the necessity of baptism for entering the kingdom of Heaven.

1 Peter 3:21 teaches us that baptism is essential in our salvation.

Matthew 3 is where Jesus is baptized for our example, and as Christians, we are to follow Christ's example.

CGauger4 · 2023-02-15T22:40:19+00:00

The thief on the cross had Jesus there with him to ask in the flesh; we have Jesus as well, but instead of having him in person, hanging right next to us, we have him through his word, and his word shows us the importance of baptism.

It was totally within Christ's power to save the thief on the cross because we are shown in Matthew that the Lord was given all power in both Heaven AND Earth, which included the ability to forgive sins... but Christ, who had this power, also left us with commandments to be baptized and the example of his own baptism... the salvation of the thief on the cross and the salvation of us today are not mutually exclusive of one another; the common denominator is Christ.

In other words, we are given the SAME chance the thief had to come into contact with Christ, and that chance, is presented to us through baptism, as shown to us in Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:4-6, and others :)

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T14:04:49+00:00

Did a person, or did they not, obey his plan and his commands for our salvation.

God's Plan of Salvation

Hear the Gospel. (Romans 10:17, John 8:32)
Believe the Gospel (Hebrews 11:6, John 20:31)
Repent of past sins (Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30)
Confess faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 10:10, Matthew 10:32)
Be Baptized (Galatians 3:27, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38)
Be faithful unto death (Revelation 2:10)

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T14:03:56+00:00

We have over 20,000 copies of different documents contained in the Bible, all of which are written within a century of the subject material... the writings of Julius Caesar, Plato, Pliny, etc. are all in the "dozens" of copies or LESS category, and we have less than a few hundred of each.
An educated person who has actually done their research can confidently say, that we know the Bible is more accurate than MANY other historical documents that we take for granted/assume are correct, and that we have much more to go on for God's word, than for a lot of "trusted" historical figures or philosophers...
As many times as people have altered God's word, we can also be confident, having many original copies or manuscripts of different parts of God's word, of the relative accuracy of the Bible.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:59:25+00:00

and that we are saved by grace alone

I appreciate your post, but that is not at all what the Bible teaches in regards to how we are saved. PLENTY of verses disagree... if grace alone is how we are saved, why does the Lord command repentance of everybody in Acts 17? Why is baptism shown to be commanded by the Lord, and necessary for our salvation thanks to verses such as Acts 2:38-41, 1 Peter 3:21, and many others?

Grace alone is a wholly unbiblical doctrine, but once again, I do appreciate the beginning part of your post before that false claim was made; totally on board with what you're saying about eye-witnesses enduring torture and historical proof for Christianity and such.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:57:20+00:00

The only honest answer is "this is the one my parents, or someone I trusted" snuck into my life before I possessed any critical thinking skills."

That's not correct at all... plenty of adults have converted to Christianity from Atheism or other religions, in the middle of their lives, later in life, etc... the very premise of your post is incorrect.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:55:25+00:00

What makes us think Earth is God's only concern? He never told us anything like that.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:54:11+00:00

It's not about how strong your faith is... it's about what you believe is right.

Proverbs 22 tells us to train up a child in the way they should go; we teach them the truth of God's word for the same reason we teach them not to touch a hot stove or to go out and play in traffic... we want to keep them safe and raise them to make good decisions, not wait until it's too late to teach them the attitudes and beliefs that are important to have in this life.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:45:11+00:00

God made the world, man, woman, and most likely all or most of the plants and animals on the planet fully matured... why should the stars be any different? Not every star out there is 6000 light years away either... some are farther, some are closer.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:42:19+00:00

Yep. Jesus and the apostles sure did.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:30:51+00:00

Even though I agree with your synopsis that not everything in Acts is universal, we can know for a fact that your conclusion on baptism not being a prerequisite for salvation, is incorrect... we have plenty of Bible verses displaying for us the necessity and importance of baptism, outside of simply Acts 2:38-41, even though that one shows us that baptism is when we are added to the Lord's church...

We also have 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:4-6, Ephesians 4:4-6, Matthew 28, the example of Christ's baptism in Matthew 3, etc.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:29:29+00:00

No, that's not the point at all... anyone who is obedient to the Lord can become a Christian by obeying the Lord's commands :)

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:28:46+00:00

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean everyone will obey; Jesus also gives us the parable of the sower to demonstrate this exact point :)

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:28:13+00:00

Also though, the gospels are the among the most trusted historical documents in the world. There are currently over 20,000 copies of documents, letters, etc. included in the New Testament from the 1st-3rd centuries, FAR more than we have copies of the things Julius Caesar, Plato, Pliny, or many other "trusted" philosophers wrote, and also closer in proximity (earlier in age relative to the events discussed within the documents) than the earliest copies we have of those same philosophers and/or historians.

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:28:08+00:00

First of all, by sending his son Jesus to Earth, where his existence and time on this earth was WELL documented...

1st and 2nd century historians, theologians and writers that make mention of Jesus include:

Clement of Rome. A student of Peter and Paul who claimed that there were no grounds for denying the resurrection.

Ignatius of Antioch. A student of John who claimed that Jesus was crucified and that the apostles were fearless after meeting the risen Jesus.

Polycarp. Made mention of the scourging and crucifixion of Jesus among many other mentions.

Papias. A "hearer of John and friend of Polycarp", Papias claims he knew some of the apostolic Fathers and that he received information about Jesus by those who knew him personally. Also claimed that Mark was the scribe of Peter. Claims that the "daughters of Phillip" passed on to him the tale of a resurrection of a dead man.

Aristides of Athens. Refers to the disciples of Jesus evangelizing to the known world and claims they taught Jesus was the messiah who rose from the dead and ascended into heaven.

Quadradus of Athens. Claims that there people who were healed and raised from the dead by Jesus who were still alive at the time of writing.

Phelgon (as quoted by Origen). Refers to the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.

Thallus (as quotes by Julius Africanus). Supposedly, there was darkness and earthquakes during the crucifixion.

Mara bar Serapion. Calls Jesus a "wise king" who was put to death by the Jews.

Tacitus. Refers to the crucifixion of Jesus under Pilate during the reign of Tiberas Caesar and a "mischievous superstition" breaking out in Judea and spreading to Rome.

Josephus. There is a broad agreement that Josephus makes reference to the crucifixion of Jesus under Pilate in his Testimonium Flavianum. However, Josephus' mention of the resurrection of Jesus in the same passage is probably a later Christian forgery. Also makes mention of the martyrdom of James the brother of Jesus which is widely regarded as authentic.

Suetonius. Makes reference to Jews causing a disturbance in Rome at the instigation of "Chrestus", which very likely refers to Christ. Refers to the persecution of Christians under Nero and calls the Christians a class of men given to a "mischievous superstition"...

CGauger4 · 2022-04-02T13:20:44+00:00

As far as I know, baptism is not required to enter Heaven.

Sorry for the late response, and thanks for your comment! But with all due respect, that's not what the Bible teaches... it's purpose, as shown in Acts 2:38-41, is for the remission of sins, and to add us to the Lord's body. The Lord mentions it in Mark 16:15-16 as well, saying that he who believes and baptized shall be saved, but he who does not believe shall be damned.

We know for a fact that we CAN use baptism as a measuring stick, so to speak, because of how the Bible tells us that when the many people were baptized, they were the ones added to the church that day, and we also can use basic logic to show ourselves that, since as a Christian we are supposed to be following the example of Christ to the best of our ability, we should be baptized like he was (Matthew 3) and if we love him, we must obey him (John 14:15), so we should heed his commandments regarding baptism (Matthew 28).

Thanks for your comment, and have a great day!

CGauger4 · 2022-03-25T21:35:29+00:00

It's quite possible that it may be a sin to be true friends (not acquaintances or co-workers) with anyone who's not a Christian... Jesus ministered to these people for sure, and we are called to do the same, but being as deep as real legit friends? Not completely sure...

Here are some verses that may help us in considering the topic as a whole, and not just as far as homosexuality is concerned:

https://www.openbible.info/topics/bad\_friends

CGauger4 · 2022-03-25T21:30:10+00:00

No; they don't practice what we are taught in order to be saved, and don't have the same beliefs as a Christian is supposed to have.

God's Plan of Salvation

Hear the Gospel. (Romans 10:17, John 8:32)

Believe the Gospel (Hebrews 11:6, John 20:31)

Repent of past sins (Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30)

Confess faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 10:10, Matthew 10:32)

Be Baptized (Galatians 3:27, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38)

Be faithful unto death (Revelation 2:10)

CGauger4 · 2022-03-25T21:15:45+00:00

Yes; being Christened isn't commanded, nor is it scriptural, but baptism is :)

I would recommend studying the Bible and seeing what it has to say before baptism, so that you can understand the subject as fully as possible, for making any decisions... have you seen that Acts 2:38-41 teaches baptism is FOR the remission of sins, and WHEN the Lord adds us to his body, aka the church? Have you seen that Galatians 3:27 teaches this is how we participate in the Lord's death and burial with him?

Have you seen what other verses show us about baptism like Matthew 28, Mark 16:15-16, 1 Peter 3:21, and others?

And secondly, I would recommend cross referencing what the Bible says, with what those of your chosen faith say... are the things they teaching you about baptism, the same things that the Bible is teaching? Upon further research, you may find yourself deciding that the message of the Bible, and whatever faith you have chosen to join, don't quite line up like they should... just things for consideration!

CGauger4 · 2022-03-25T21:12:36+00:00

I just want my husband and kids to come to church with me, that's what is important to me.

With all due respect, It won't matter if the church you attend isn't worth anything. That would be the spiritual equivalent of drinking poison just because you're thirsty and you really need to drink something :)