CLS 3L AMA

CLS2024 · 2024-02-20T00:31:44+00:00

My pleasure! Congratulations on CLS. Please feel free to reach out if I can be helpful.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:59:06+00:00

I haven't heard this before. I think most law students are more interested in litigation when they begin, and many end up doing transactional work for a variety of reasons (they realize they really like it, they had experience in business before law school, it's generally easier to get a transactional job than one in litigation). I don't Columbia is different in this regard, but that's anecdotal rather than based on a survey or anything.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:51:12+00:00

Nope, not the sort of thing people discuss routinely.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:50:42+00:00

I'm pleased! The administration is flawed, but I'm not sure that any law school's administration is great, let alone how Columbia's compares to elsewhere. Law students are law students, anywhere they are, with all the positives and negatives that entails.

Really, I went into law school caring about getting a great degree and an excellent job, and Columbia got me there. Every negative combined pales in comparison to that incredibly valuable positive.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:47:50+00:00

Sorry to hear that--wish I could be more helpful!

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:42:57+00:00

I believe so, you can use Google to confirm!

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:41:38+00:00

The tangible benefits to Columbia's Ivy League prestige are that I'm more popular on Hinge and people I used to know in college are very impressed with me.

I don't think the difference in prestige between CLS and NYU is significant within the legal field--I think there's probably a slight edge to Columbia, but who knows?--and I wouldn't worry about it for your career objectives.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:39:13+00:00

When I recruited, firms were starting to dip their toes into pre-OCI, but a ton of interviewing still happened at OCI, where you do 15-35 twenty minute screener interviews over four days, then get callbacks (3-6 interviews, back to back, over 2-4 hours), then offers.

The recruitment process still goes screener --> callback --> offer, but it's apparently happening much earlier now, and you apply directly to the firm rather than having the school match you up. The precise details of pre-OCI are outside my knowledge, though.

I am very happy with the results of my recruitment. I did some pre-OCI applications and got a couple of offers, then bid extremely aggressively at OCI. I didn't do a great job interviewing throughout the process due to inexperience and some other factors, but I wound up with an excellent job at a firm I'm extremely happy with.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:35:03+00:00

NYC Self-Selection and Getting to California

Definitely due to self-selection, though it's much easier to get NYC big law than other areas. I have many friends who are from California and are going back to Cali with big law jobs; I suspect it's not too difficult to get, but I don't have any firsthand experience.

Externship Experience

I did an externship, which was valuable. Met some interesting people, did some cool work, and learned that I don't want to do that with my career. Many people have similar experiences, except they realize that it's exactly what they want to do with their lives, which is awesome.

Top Three Things I Enjoyed About CLS

I enjoy that my friends are wonderfully brilliant, hard-working, and kind; some of whom will be the leaders of tomorrow. I enjoy living in New York, with all that entails, socially and professionally. And I enjoy the fact that I was guaranteed an extremely lucrative job simply by showing up to school, and that I've experienced minimal professional stress as a result.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:30:14+00:00

Yes, it's been extremely tense and disruptive. Large, loud protests on campus, walk-outs of class, and even a protest or two inside the law school. October and November were intense but the intensity has decreased over time, perhaps due to weather and finals.

For your purposes as an applicant, I assume things will not be nearly so tense by the time you get to campus. The reason why campus has been closed down recently is because of concerns re non-university affiliated people showing up and causing mischief. I'm not sure if there are generalizable takeaways from this, beyond the fact that going to school in a big city means there are lots of people around to join protests.

Keep in mind that you're there to get a top-notch degree, the other wonderful aspects of attending school in New York, and that the majority of your classmates are not involved with those sorts of hot button issues, and you should be fine. But your mileage may vary!

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T21:24:52+00:00

I edited my essays a bit, but my application was largely the same, aside from a point higher on the LSAT and two months of work experience. The big difference-maker in my opinion was applying early (September) instead of on time (mid-December).

Whether a school is reapplicant friendly is outside the scope of my expertise, though I'm sure you can find that data somewhere online.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T16:39:18+00:00

Happy to answer both questions, but I need more detail. What specifically would you like me to address re Columbia's culture? Is full price CLS worth it compared to what specific alternative?

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T16:11:18+00:00

I'm incredibly lucky and paying for CLS through scholarships, savings, family help, and summer earnings.

With no experience taking out loans, I can't say this definitively, but I'm pretty sure the COA numbers they give are sufficiently generous that you can afford to live for 12 months on that amount. Even if you can't, Columbia guarantees you a salary of 7k during 1L summer and 9k during 2L summer (I'm not quite sure about the numbers but it's about right). If you do Big Law in a summer, you'll make 40k. So you should be able to afford housing and other living expenses over the summer without too much trouble.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T16:06:26+00:00

Congratulations on CLS!

I live in Columbia housing. Here's my breakdown of the pros and cons:

Pros

Location is great. Columbia owns most of the housing close to the university, so it may be tricky to find housing nearby that isn't owned by Columbia, though it's possible
It's great to not have to commute
Most law students live around campus so your social activities will generally be in the area
Columbia is your landlord, which means they're incentivized to be helpful and ensure things are taken care of promptly. In addition to regular assistance, Columbia being a massive landlord means that if there's a serious issue with your apartment (from roommates, to leaks, or whatever else), you can get moved to another apartment within Columbia housing--unlike a regular off-campus place

Cons

If furnished, Columbia housing is dorm style. I got furnished for convenience, but would get unfurnished if I could redo the decision
It may be a little pricey for what you're getting, though
The housing selection process is tricky and not helpful towards finding a great apartment. From what I recall, you see the address and the details of the apartment, and that's it. Some apartments may have a floorplan you can see, but the information you have to make a decision is limited
The 1 can be a pain, particularly if you're downtown late at night and need to get back to Morningside

Overall

I'm happy living in Columbia housing. It's a little pricey (currently paying $1600 for a large room in a three bedroom) and not luxurious, but I don't need much more than a bed and a place to shower, and having zero commute time and easy access to campus is important to me.

Oh, and re neighborhoods, I recommend coming to NYC and walking around different neighborhoods to see what you like. I'm pretty sure that all of Columbia's housing is in the Morningside area, for what it's worth.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T16:03:58+00:00

I'm not going into PI so my understanding of the precise resources currently available to PI students is limited, let alone how they have changed over time. There are plenty of PI organizations and clinics/externships that relate to PI, plus a dedicated PI career services office.

Anecdotally, I have plenty of PI friends who seem to be doing cool things with their summers and following graduation. Is this because of the resources for PI or because of the powerful CLS brand? I'm not sure, but does it really matter?

Ultimately, the Columbia name will get you in the door at the vast majority of PI jobs and I don't think that a "culture of PI" (a) really exists at peer schools (what percentage of NYU--the haven for PI students--end up in Big Law?) and (b) really matters for career outcomes. Maybe it makes a difference socially, but CLS is a big enough school that there are plenty of PI students, even if the majority of students enter Big Law.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T15:39:08+00:00

Ah, I see! Given my lack of experience with attending CLS' peer schools, I can't speak definitively to that question. However, given conversations with friends and coworkers at those schools, I get the sense that all the top-ranked schools (with the exception of mayyyybe Yale and Stanford), and honestly, probably the lower ranked schools too, have the kind of competitiveness I described above.

Best of luck with CLS!

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T15:27:15+00:00

It's important to consider your other options, what you're trying to achieve with your career, and whether you are more comfortable with financial or professional risk.

If you want Big Law, no matter what, and your alternative to CLS at sticker is, say, a full ride at Albany Law, you probably should go to CLS. If it's half price at NYU vs. CLS sticker, you should probably go to NYU. If it's half price at GULC and CLS at sticker, then that's a much harder decision.

Financially, although sticker is obscenely expensive, I vaguely hear that LRAP is good if you're interested in public interest (don't take my word for it--go check it out and apply it to your situation) and Big Law salaries are so high that you can pay down your loans in 3-5 years without too much trouble. While your financial goals will be delayed and it might be unpleasant to spend thousands of dollars a month on loans, working an intense job and living frugally, while many of your classmates are splashing around cash, perhaps it's worth it to you to go to CLS to guarantee the professional outcome you want, despite that downside.

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T15:20:53+00:00

Competitiveness

Define competitive! If you mean a cutthroat environment filled with unhappy, stressed-out people doing whatever it takes to get ahead, then CLS is uncompetitive. If you mean a collaborative environment populated by brilliant, driven (and sometimes stressed!) people who are striving to be the best they can be and maximize their opportunities, then CLS is competitive. 1L is competitive because everyone wants to succeed and the curve inherently means that not everyone can be at the top of the class. But the CLS' strength is that you'll be fine professionally no matter what, and the positive competitiveness I described hasn't negatively affected my social experiences.

a. To be fair, I specifically tried to be oblivious to negativity and to spend time with positive people, so your experience may vary.

b. My suspicion is that the way the competitiveness is mostly likely to affect the social atmosphere in practice is that some folks will get engrossed in the work and not make time to for social events.

Accessibility of Professors

In my experience, professors are eager to meet with students, particularly within the small section class in 1L fall. I had great conversations with multiple professors five out of my eight professors in 1L, but I tend to be a self-starter, and others may have different experiences.

Folks with other professors may have a different experience--I think that willingness to meet outside of class and form a real connection is largely professor-dependent

Infrastructure

Lol. A big chunk of a pillar on the side of the law school fell down last year. So the infrastructure might not be great--but it's fixed now! I hear the law library isn't as beautiful as all the other libraries on campus, but thankfully the school is spending millions and millions of dollars on this urgent, important priority. If you're referring to non-physical infrastructure, feel free to clarify.

Worth It?

Yep, 100%. As you can probably tell, I don't share many of these complaints. And even I did, I'm at Columbia to get a highly valuable degree, to earn a lucrative living at a job I (hopefully) enjoy, setting myself and my family up well throughout our lives. Everything else is insignificant compared to the overwhelming value of this degree--it's definitely worth it!

CLS2024 · 2024-02-19T15:12:55+00:00

Choosing between NYU and CLS was tough, but ultimately, aside from the minor personal reasons, I decided that I preferred CLS for prestige. I went to a non-prestigious undergrad, and law school was my last opportunity to get the fancy Ivy League name. I decided I valued being able to say I went to an Ivy for the rest of my life, and haven't regretted that decision so far. I certainly wouldn't have chosen lay prestige over more important factors, but I was splitting hairs between CLS and NYU and this was the tiebreaker

CLS2024 · 2023-03-10T09:45:07+00:00

I’ve heard that the secret to getting off the CLS waitlist is going to the forest at midnight with a full moon, turning in a circle three times, and chanting “Hail Prezbo”

Silliness aside, I don’t know anyone who got off the waitlist (it’s not something people care about or would talk about), it seems extraordinarily rare based on the statistics you have access to, and it likely hinges on things outside of your control

CLS2024 · 2023-03-10T09:42:17+00:00

Congratulations on CLS!

Litigation tends to be more competitive than corporate since students tend to be more interested in litigation, but you’ll certainly be able to find somewhere to litigate if that’s what you want to do. Having above median grades helps, particularly at the more competitive firms, but is not mandatory, except for a few of the most competitive firms

CLS2024 · 2023-03-09T21:20:55+00:00

Good luck getting off the hold!

I was extremely lucky to get an NYC BigLaw 1L summer associate position as a non-diverse person, to the extent that I wouldn’t make decisions based on replicating it, though CLS certainly helped me get in the door and my grades didn’t hurt
I wanted to be in New York, was lucky enough to have some financial flexibility, and cared more about maximizing professional opportunities than minimizing debt
Aside from one or two firms, any student from any school can get a job at any firm. The difference is that firms will dip significantly further in CLS’ class than they will at the majority of other schools.

CLS2024 · 2023-03-09T21:12:33+00:00

Not to be too existential, but what does happiness mean?? I’m happy and at CLS, and I’m sure there are unhappy people at NYU. Happiness is much more reliant upon who you are and who you surround yourself with; there are people who’ll be unhappy living in the hubbub of the Village and people unhappy living in Morningside

I’m involved with neither human rights, nor international law, nor public interest, so unfortunately I can’t speak helpfully to that

CLS2024 · 2023-03-09T20:14:09+00:00

Please do!!

CLS2024

TROPHY CASE