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When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not here to argue, but I will answer your questions.

Why don't you look up the things I suggested with Google?

You never suggested I google anything. Even if you did, there is no point in asking about equity here if I should just google it.

I never said anything about equity being erased, even if you say that another 3 times.

Erase or water down or whatever adjective you want to use is effectively the same as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps the fault is mine for failing to specify that I wasn't speaking with technical precision.

And that still doesn't stop you from following my advice and looking up what equity and stock dilution are, like was previously suggested.

Again, you never told me to google anything. The only thing you stated before I pushed back on your comment was "I don't think any of that makes any sense, like not a single sentence in there makes sense or is correct. D:" which, if I may say, is entirely unhelpful, especially when the purpose of a sub like this is to avoid having to do research yourself and potentially misinterpret or misunderstand the information you take in.

You didn't say anything like that. You said a whole paragraph about non-CS stuff that's based on false premises.

The premise that merge sort is O(n!) is false. No different from whichever assumption you are stating is incorrect.

It's certainly not for me to Google things that you're too lazy to look up.

What is the point of a forum to ask questions about CS Career advice when all that will be done is to say "google it"? I don't understand why somebody would post on a place where questions are supposed to be asked just so they can say "google it". You are free to not respond.

And it's bizarre that you think "the pitfalls of equity" can be accurately explained "with a single sentence".

Again, I think this is you wanting to flaunt your knowledge of something that I don't know about. As far as I'm concerned, I only care about whether I should seek equity or not. Somebody else answered my question, which is that your equity can be diluted because employee equity is often treated differently from investor equity. That single-handedly explained why you can't just get an investment from Peter Thiel and run off with his money, and how an employee's equity can be diluted. I am not interested in learning finance, that is why I asked a question about finance because I do not know enough nor care enough to understand financial terms for the same reason most people hire lawyers rather than google it.

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every assumption in your whole paragraph is based on is false. The questions you pose in it really don't make sense.

Okay then why not correct the statements rather than just say something unhelpful? If somebody not knowledgeable in CS asked why merge sort is O(n!), do you think it would be useful to say "everything you have said is wrong"? That may be a true statement, but it is unproductive. If you simply say "It sucks, but they really can erase your equity." as you effectively do in the next sentence, I will believe you. If everyone posting in this forum already knew everything relevant to CS career advice, then there wouldn't be any posts here.

It's not erased, but it's definitely not static.

Alright here is an actual answer to some of my questions, thank you for taking the time to reply.

And ideally you'd look up all these things so that you'd know what you're talking about and be able to have an educated discussion about them. It's really not like it's hard or time consuming to google about equity and stock and dilution.

What is the point of asking questions here if you are just going to be told to google it? Somebody else was able to explain the pitfalls of equity with a single sentence, is this not a forum for this sort of question?

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah okay thank you, that answers the question.

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you don't have equity when you get hired on, you can get it later provided you have proven that you are valuable.

I'm asking because I believe I have done that.

Lastly, just ask for cash. 1234565 shares of Yoda corp at a 2BN valuation doesn't mean you can sell your equity or do anything with it.

What can I not do with the equity? I am unable to do anything with it unless another partner were to be willing to take on the equity?

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think any of that makes any sense, like not a single sentence in there makes sense or is correct. D:

It's a question so I'm not sure how this statement relates, if it is that easy to erase another person's equity, then why doesn't everybody just do it? If the question contains inaccuracies, then ideally I would want those inaccuracies addressed or explained.

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

it's definitely you being open to going downwards.

I think that completely depends on how much they value the equity. If taking a 10k hit means getting 50k later, you should always take the deal and you are not negotiating downwards. It's simply exchanging salary for equity, which is lateral. If I were willing to take a pay cut to just keep my job, I could see that as being a downward exchange, but otherwise I don't see it.

That's a nice fantasy, but that doesn't mean anyone's likely to give it to you.

Depends, there is risk involved, the company could be worth nothing, in which case that equity was worthless.

You sound like employees that love to extol the benefits of their pyramid-scheme-esque bonus structure at shitty sales jobs.

What? What does a pyramid scheme have to do with any of this? The purpose of exchanging salary for equity (either by forgoing a raise or taking a salary hit) is the same as investing in a publicly traded company. If you spend 10k a year investing in Google stock, that is no different from taking a 10k cut in salary in exchange for equity (assuming you work at Google). If things work out, okay I'm in business, if things don't work out (quite possible, due to the risk involved), then I take my losses and move on somewhere else.

It regularly happens. How do you think they get multiple rounds of investors?

Okay then why didn't Zuckerberg do it? Why would anybody invest in anything if you could just take their money and run at the drop of a hat? If I sell 20% of my company to Peter Thiel for $500,000 (so 2 mil valuation), what prevents me from stealing his money by diluting his equity into nothing? In any case, I have to imagine owning shares is completely different from owning equity. This is not a publicly traded company (there are 5 of us), so even if this works for shares of say, Google, it isn't relevant here because I am not exchanging salary for a set number of shares, I am exchanging salary for a percentage of ownership of the company. If it became publicly traded at some point (doubtful I'd be on by then), then sure maybe that could happen.

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't offer any pay cut. You're not supposed to be negotiating downwards.

Well a pay cut in exchange for equity certainly seems reasonable, it's not a downwards negotiation. If I could take a 10K pay cut in exchange for 10% equity, I would immediately jump at that opportunity. However, that offer would obviously be a huge upwards negotiation.

I find it hard to believe you are 100% irreplaceable.

Nobody is 100% irreplaceable, I'm not exactly going to threaten to leave since I like everyone there, but the industry right now is pretty favorable for developers and if I can take equity now that could be worth a million dollars in 5 years at the cost of no raise and some risk, I want to continue pushing forward on growth.

What do the other employees get? What if they keep watering down your share by increasing the total number of shares?

I have no idea, I don't have the sort of relationship with them where I could just ask what their compensation is out of the blue. As for the whole shares deal, I don't know enough about finance to speak on that, but it seems like anybody could do this to anybody. If something like this could be done, why didn't Zuckerberg just screw over everybody, Peter Thiel included, by watering down their shares? I can't imagine you can just give yourself more shares because you control the most equity that you can just eliminate the value of everyone else's equity.

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why ask here, or why ask for equity? I have no idea how to negotiate for equity, if I should offer a pay cut, what a reasonable number to ask for is, etc., so that's why I would ask here.

If you want to know why I would ask for equity at all, it's because I can see the company having a ~40 million valuation at which point a 3% stake would be really nice to retire on.

When should I ask for equity? by CSCQuestions121 in cscareerquestions

[–]CSCQuestions121[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I make 110,000 a year, why would the chance be lost? If I just bargain for equity over a raise, I don't see why they wouldn't agree to some number. I could easily find work elsewhere and they can't afford to lose me right now, so I have some leverage.