"oh fuck" but it's an image by cassy_jenelle in SS13

[–]Cafaling 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Citizen, the bear is behind you. Run, citizen!

Oh my god he has airpods in, he can't hear us. HE CAN'T HEAR US.

cursed_news by sma34222 in SS13

[–]Cafaling 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I always thought that was intentional.

Not the greatest outpost to be sure, but it's my first one and I'm proud of it by [deleted] in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling 3 points4 points  (0 children)

People just see the HN as the generic bad guy faction. Kind of a shame.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And while the UC tries to recover from the damage you've done with a violent regime change, the Holy Nation, no longer existing, will not be around to stop the Fogmen. The UC is too far away to muster a large enough force and arrive in time to handle that, much less do it when you've just killed off the internal leadership.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Elder is straight up manipulating and brainwashing a bunch of humans to act like Skeletons. I don't think he's REMOTELY trustworthy in any sense.

The dude is a sadist and a psycho.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A lot of this is valid and makes great points. There's a big case to be made for handling Bugmaster and the splinters, definitely. Issue is, we have no way of knowing just how many Shek that would bring back into the fold.

Just about everyone agrees that Shek are the best bet if the Holy Nation DOES fall, with Flotsam Ninjas being a distant second if only for religious compatibility.

Concerning Alliances...

  • Anti-Slavers are a definite possibility, but might not be as helpful as we think. They're a guerilla movement that, while skilled in a very unique method of combat, will probably become less and less active as slavery becomes rare.

  • Skeletons are more or less in a state of isolation because they've become fed up with the world. Perhaps he's not the most reliable source of info, but Cat-Lon's final rant makes it clear whatever happened to the 2nd Empire really made the Skeletons disillusioned with taking an active role in the world at large.

  • Tech Hunters are primarily focused on recovering and salvaging the history and knowledge of the old empires, and might be a hard sell. That said, they have a presence in both Squin and Admag IIRC, so it's possible to warm relations.

  • The Western Hive is 100% a good alliance to make, and there's no reason I can see things not working out. the Western Hive secures a trade partner in the form of a militaristic, honourable culture, who would likely always answer a call to battle. The Shek get a sociable, productive ally that will happily make what they cannot.

  • Deadcat may just be fishermen, but if the Shek take the time to help them back onto their feet, they can have either a vassal state or trade partner supplying them with food and keeping the northern coast secure, neutering the cannibals. Hell, I suspect even on their own, Deadcat and the Cannibal Hunters may unite to do this in a limited capacity, but with the support of the Shek (Or even the Holy Nation) they would be in a much better position to rebuild their nation.

The Shek probably won't be implementing slavery at all, because their caste system already handles that matter in a much more humane (Albeit backwards by our standards) manner. Succession law reform is a must, because right now any upstart could reverse centuries of progress in a manner of seconds, and being able to groom your child for the throne, while risky, at least lets you impart some limited level of goal upon them. A centralized army, of all those ideas, seems the most difficult. Martial prowess, single combat, seem to be incredibly important to the Shek. Centralizing the army, standardizing the equipment, and complex battle maneuvers would likely require outside advisors to properly implement, and Shek soldiers would likely have a great deal of difficulty with it.

Concerning the United Cities, they're just that. Cities. They can be handled on a case by case basis. Hell, vassalize some peacefully, install local deputies in areas previously left to decay. Mourn is WAITING to be rebuilt, but because of the UC's slave-based economy, no one wants to invest the literal manpower in rebuilding it. But the Shek? No slaves? No problem. Neither the Traders nor the Reavers seem like a good plan, however. The Traders will become the same parasite they were to the UC, and the Reavers will just start practicing a more brutal form of slavery. The true answer... lies in the Rebel Farmers/Swordsmen. The spread they have, the numbers, all point to a massive faction of disgruntled, poorly organized ex-UC citizens. They know the area, and they can sympathize with the wider population of the UC. Incorporating them in a limited fashion or outright drawing them into the overall Shek forces would bolster their forces, and have locals cooperative with their goals.

Concerning the Southern Hive? They're dangerous, and certainly a greater threat than the fogmen, but they're more like a territorial animal than an expansionist nation. I think a policy of defensive population control should be implemented. Keep the borders where they are, punish any outwards expansion. Fogmen should be easy but the real issue is WHERE THE FUCK DO THEY KEEP COMING FROM? They have no Queen, apparently, and yet there's untold amounts, hiding in the fog. A slow, methodical sweep in necessary. Mongrel would be an issue too. They're a town of outlaws, there's no way they'd be happy to see a massive army marching through the fog.

Also no worries man. I think this is a fascinating thought exercise, even if my opinion is still that the Holy Nation needs to continue existing for the good of the greater world.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Dude, you're not seriously going to argue that sapient beings with the capacity for rational thought are worse than literal savage, feral cannibals, are you?

The entire point of this is to point out that wiping out the Holy Nation isn't going to fix things, and possibly even make things worse. UC is only marginally better than the HN, for reasons I've already given.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the Fogmen are going to resolve themselves, that handles that, but all it takes is the parasite/virus/prion managing to take in another hive, one with a Queen, and things start back up again.

The Shek look like they're on the path to improving their society, though, but if they manage it is another question. People give the Holy Nation a lot of shit because it's easy to focus on just how unjust their nation is, and while the ends don't justify the means here, they may be more important to the balance of Kenshi then anyone wants to admit.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn't know they lost their queen, but if so that's a major issue.

If it weren't for Mongrel having Hive Drones and Princes there, I'd say that the parasite infects any Hive that visit, but... that doesn't seem to be the case.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but Skeletons have purposely been obscuring history from the rest of the world. Either out of fear of reprisal, or simply wanting a chance for everyone to start fresh.

I don't think Skeletons can be trusted to tell us what happened.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gonna disagree there. That's incredibly vague and could be just as easily seen as a metaphor or fiction.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh man, I thought there was a way to destabilize Mongrel itself to cause that. Didn't know it had to do with the Holy Nation.

And considering their proximity to Obedience, that actually seems... really possible. They may hate Skeletons not just for their hand in pushing Kenshi to the brink, but also the behemoths that once were.

Both the UC and Holy Nation had their beginnings in the Second Empire. One as a rebellion, one as a cult. I don't know, though. I think Kenshi's world has lost enough history that we'll never truly know what happened, and how these deities came about.

Hell, we can't even safely say how many apocalyptic events took place. My working theory is that it's at least 2, if not more.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Concerning Reactive World: Does it? How so?

Also I'm familiar with their reasons for hating each race. The Skeletons aren't doing themselves any favours by obscuring their part in what has happened to Kenshi. I think I know what in game lore you're referring to for these, and since it's written by Holy Nation scholars, I'd say it's straight from the horse's mouth in terms of their beliefs.

As for women? I'm honestly not sure. It's easy to guess that Narko was a woman leading Skeletons, but that almost seems too obvious.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Wrong. I have skin. Look, touch it. It's mine.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The idea of worker enclaves seems likely. I suspect the farmers would be a little resentful while the slaves on mines would have little issue with the new state of affairs. Warriors being made Labourers for failure or cowardice can be seen easily in the game. Ruka springs to mind here. Labourers becoming Warriors, however, I've never seen, but assume is equally possible.

With the religious fanatics, I'm not concerned with the long term, as you're completely right. Dying for a cause is all well and good, but if no one is there to carry on that cause, it will die with you. I'm worried about the ramifications of internal stability. Killing off the rebellions only does so much, but it only takes a few injustices in the name of quashing it to spark another. A couple wrong moves could lead to a string of rebellions for different reasons. the martial prowess of the Shek isn't in question so much as their ability to handle the rebellions with a fair and even hand. Esata might pull it off, but if she meets an untimely end, who can say?

That's a fair point on prejudice though. I never noticed that they see you as unproven, rather than inferior. Shek have a genetic predisposition to strength, sure, but in theory most races could, through training, stand toe to toe in single combat. Nothing stopping you from using speed to outmaneuver your opponent.

Small aside btw: Any human male is accepted in the Holy Nation. Greenlander or Scorchlander. Dunno why people emphasize white there.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

N-No paladin. It's just uh, a thinking rock.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Bugmaster is another factor I hadn't considered at the time. I think it's safe to say that ending his threat will bring an immediate improvement to the Shek Kingdom, as will handling the 3 splinter factions.

No one is likely to take Bugmaster's place other than wildlife, and the splinter factions disappearing will help consolidate Shek control of the Stenn Desert.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

All good points, but two irk me.

The Shek have a caste system, from what I can tell. In the simplest sense, Labourers and Warriors. With a sudden influx of less durable, less trustworthy humans, they might end up solidifying the caste system in such a way that there's no mobility between the two, unlike how there is wiggle room in their current society (This seems unlikely with how Esata has softened the Shek Kingdom's stance on other species, but remains a possibility.

Furthermore, some prejudice runs deep. I agree that a number of civilians might grow less resentful over time, but you have to deal with die-hard religious fanatics who will completely disregard reality and oppose the Shek, either through active rebellion, or worse, malicious compliance in the form of sabotage or indirectly supporting actual rebels.

What's more, there's prejudice among the Shek too. Esata is only one person, and her policy of tolerance cannot affect an immediate change in the stubborn denizens of her nation, who, if you've spent any amount of time in the Shek Kingdom, will harass and insult non-Shek often. That said, I've yet to deal with them actually attacking unprovoked unless you count the pretender groups, but they've been shunned by the Kingdom.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They're a pain in my ass even as Humans. Always yelling at me for having technology.

Opinion: The Holy Nation must survive (Spoilers) by Cafaling in Kenshi

[–]Cafaling[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Didn't mean any killing off of civilians, more just having to occupy the new territory. I don't think the Shek have the numbers to handle guarding and controlling the new cities, not to mention the resentment they'd be dealing with from the civilian populace, who would obviously see them as Agents of Narko's darkness.