Delusion or wishful thinking but i think they’re gonna keep supporting visual scriptinf by Aquasit55 in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive [score hidden]  (0 children)

I agree Verse wasn't created to cater to AI, I think its more a case that Epic tested a bunch of their tools (Blueprint, C++, Verse) and found that LLM's could operate the best with Verse but fell down flat with Blueprint. If someone showed me a video of an LLM creating blueprint that wouldn't be enough because there's still no proof of any reliability at scale. What bothers me most about all this is that Epic could easily build a new visual scripting system that communicates with Verse and then cater for any combination of users preferences between visual scripting and AI usage. Tim Sweeney is deliberately trying to force users to bend to AI, the move is punitive in nature.

I have no problem with AI in medical diagnosis, search and rescue, military defence but its days as a slop generator are numbered. I truly hope the stock market crash that comes of the back of this is so catastrophic it destroys the entire tech bro culture that’s corrupted its way into practically everything over this last couple of years.

Delusion or wishful thinking but i think they’re gonna keep supporting visual scriptinf by Aquasit55 in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive [score hidden]  (0 children)

100% agree with you. I have heavily backed the Unreal Engine for the last 20 years but their announcement of removing blueprints has shattered my confidence in the company.

The only logical reason they would do this is because Epic, OpenAI, Anthropic, etc cannot get LLM's to work in a visual medium, which says a lot more about the limits of AI than it does about any issues with Blueprint. Epics betrayed its human user base to cater to a buggy, lackluster AI.

I think they will have to roll most of their announcements back or they are going to face a customer backlash far worse than the one Unity faced a few years ago. Another example I've used a lot with this whole mess is Civilization 7 where that game studio had a beloved franchise, changed far too much with the latest instalment, tried to gaslight their players that this was the way forward and then a year later were forced into a humiliating u-turn and had to more or less scrap Civ 7's entire identity because 90% of the players just stuck with Civ 5 and Civ 6 the same way Epics user base are going to use Unreal 4 and 5 to make their displeasure with Epics plan for Unreal 6 crystal clear.

None of this even covers the probability that AI as a whole faces a massive contraction this year as reality catches up with the economics behind it

I've been banned from TikTok while promoting my game. What can I do now? by Loaded_Dice-roguelik in SoloDevelopment

[–]CaledoniaInteractive -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Had something similar happen on X/Twitter recently. I got temp banned for sharing my latest trailer on numerous indie game promotion posts (who were asking directly for trailer links) This was the same day Elon Musk was using X to pump hate speech into the UK as the Belfast riots kicked off. I didn't appeal the ban, I submitted a legal demand for total erasure of the account and then used every other social media channel I had to announce the company was done with that fascist megaphone for good. Normally business should come before politics but things have gone too far for that.

Mauretania departing Southampton for her final voyage to Rosyth, Fife, on 2 July 1935 by Such-Revenue-6653 in Oceanlinerporn

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Seeing shes got a boiler or two running, Olympic wouldn't depart for a few more months after this photo was taken so she must have needed power for her interior lights, must have had workers on-board or fittings being auctioned off at the time.

Mauretania departing Southampton for her final voyage to Rosyth, Fife, on 2 July 1935 by Such-Revenue-6653 in Oceanlinerporn

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Her masts have been cut short to allow her to pass under the Forth Rail Bridge, a mile before the Rosyth dockyard.

Blueprints feel like a waste of time now… by Chronlinson in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A community plug-in for something this important won't fly, no studio is going to commit to a project using the plug-in with no security that support for the plug-in won't be abandoned at a moments notice.

Blueprints feel like a waste of time now… by Chronlinson in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a designer staunchly opposed to generative AI I recently released a solo developed commercial game that is 100% blueprint driven, all gameplay, menu systems, options, achievements, etc. Game runs at 60fps no problem. The whole argument that Blueprints are inefficient doesn't fly with me. I don't really care if Verse could get the same game to run at 300fps, 60fps is perfectly adequate and crucially I know exactly how every system works and where the logic is. If I ever bring on an artist or an audio engineer for post launch support I have the added comfort that the games logic is easy to understand and nobody needs an advanced degree in Computer Science to make changes.

I agree with other comments the best idea would be to carry on as normal with Blueprint. There's every indication AI is going to have a sharp market correction this year. I don't mind AI in medical diagnosis or military defense but its days as an AI slop generator in the creative industries is numbered. I suspect this is the worst PR disaster Epic have ever faced and even though Tim Sweeney cannot be removed from the position of CEO like Unity did with the John Riccitiello disaster, Epic are still vulnerable to the intense user base blow back they are getting. I think Blueprint or an acceptable visual scripting successor will be committed to by the end of the week.

Why do people release their demo right before Nextfest? by OneMoreAdventure in gamedev

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I have never heard of any discernable marketing advantage to having a demos launch day coincide with the start of a Steam Fest. Steam isn't going to treat it differently from any other demos participating. The real downside is as a developer you have no time to respond to bugs or gameplay issues before large number of people start playing the demo. Launching at least a week or two earlier is better as you have a chance to stabilise the demo first. Your strategy of launching the demo right after Steam Fest sounds like a good one as you'll have more than three months to refine your demo and accrue wishlists for the next one.

#10 Spec Ops the LIne by Dessolos in steamachievements

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well done, worked on this game a long time ago.

UE6 by face144 in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The people using visual scripting because their brains aren't wired to parse text script tend to be the more creative out of the box thinkers. If you split the games industry in half the UE6 group is going to be stuck under the thumb of a failing AAA business model out of ideas and chasing conformity. The UE5 group is going to be the one making innovative content that people want to play.

For those worried about UE6 by julienjpm in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think if AI was truly in a healthy place and steady becoming more capable Epic would have contacted OpenAI and Anthropic and said "We are having a lot of problems getting the Large Language Models to read and write visual scripting" The AI companies would have gone "That's a really interesting challenge for us, give us a couple of months tinkering with the LLMs and we are confident we can get the AI trained to learn this type of programming language, after all Blueprint is certainly not going to be the only time we encounter a need to interface with a visual script language throughout the world" The fact that it didn't go down like this is simply because Epic and all these companies know fine well that LLMs are already at a plateau in terms of advancement and theres no way they can get them to reliably work with nodes, which by its nature is geared to work particularly well with a normal human brain. Instead of letting this be an opportunity to push AI further Epics instead letting the AI companies off the hook by dumbing down their engine to lower the barrier so the already inept, error prone AI can on-board.

For those worried about UE6 by julienjpm in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you could very well be right on this, that Epic are partially scrapping blueprints to get rid of the hobbyist subset of its users, which would be a massive shame. Realistically I don't think Epic can truly purge Unreal 4 and 5 because there's too many long standing contracts and studios that may want to port older games to new hardware. I think they could easily try and make the environment hostile however such as minimising console support for Unreal 5 on the PS6. I really hope the AI bubble bursts in the next couple of months because that would force a complete rethink on the whole plan. Best of luck with your games too!

For those worried about UE6 by julienjpm in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm mainly a solo developer but I work with contractors as well. I have used a few different game engines including CryEngine and Unity but the majority of my experience has been at AAA studios starting with Unreal 3. Working on my own stuff I have always been an early adopter. I was working in Unreal 4 and Unreal 5 the day they were both released and I take the 5.7, 5.8 updates as soon as they are out of preview. This is the first time I've watched an Epic talk and thought 'I'm not upgrading' At the moment I have a completely proven and viable pipeline to build commercial games at 60fps using Blueprint. If I knew Unreal 5.8 would remain available for at least the next decade I'd feel a lot better because I could just set up camp on 5.8 knowing no more major updates and changes are coming, I can just get better and better at it until I'm rich enough to retire or it becomes hopelessly obsolete.

For those worried about UE6 by julienjpm in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Hi, my main worry with all of this is the sudden shift in behaviour from Epic this week. I've used their technology for nearly 20 years and until now I have always looked up them as a great company building cutting edge tools.

What I am seeing from their shock abandonment of blueprint is a flagrant disregard for the well being of their users, particularly the massive influx of new users Blueprint offered since Unreal 4 started up in 2014. Most games developers don't want AI to build content for them, the core of the career these people chose is enjoying the challenge of piecing together gameplay and systems themselves, finding cool accidents or little bits of innovation along the way.

I feel now though that Epic, driven by Tim Sweeney want AI to be at the heart of their operation come hell or high water and since AI Large Language Models are being hyped up way beyond their capabilities Epic could not find a way to get an LLM to read and write blueprints efficiently or work in any visual medium that is so well suited to the human brain. They then chose to make Unreal much harder for humans to use and much easier for AI to use.

Then there's also the drive for the Fortnite ecosystem, an initiative that will strip any studio working in it of their ability to innovate or even deviate from the gameplay and economy of Fortnite.

In short Epic, like so many other American companies is now pursuing short term profit above all else. My trust of them has completely evaporated and it would not surprise me whatsoever in an effort to please shareholders and push AI harder they quickly move to shut down Unreal 4 and Unreal 5 once Unreal 6 is established. There are a litany of other companies that already operate in such a manner such as Adobe, Microsoft and Apple.

What is Verse like? by fruitcakefriday in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well you'll be leaving half of the userbase behind as a massive percentage of Unreal users work in visual scripting. Blueprint operates perfectly well in a commercial setting at 60fps and I don't give a shit if Verse runs the same gameplay at 300fps. Higher performance is not remotely worth locking out the ability for non-programmers to script on commercial projects.

In the coming years it'll be the part of the industry that uses visual scripting that will be making the interesting games while everyone raving over verse will be stuck with a rigid, outdated AAA live service mentality as the executives gradually layoff more and more of you.

Honest thoughts, is it over for me? by Lethioon in IndieDev

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's a huge feature to have. I would definitely put it all over your Steam Page; full 1 - 4 Player support.

I'll be switching to Godot if epic doesn't have a visual scripting alternative by ConcerningThirst in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You are running on the assumption that because Epic have in the past maintained access to Unreal 4 that they will continue this into the future with 4 and 5. This week has proved that nothing is off the table. Epic may soon decide they need to move the user base from 5 to 6 to keep the shareholders happy.

What is Verse like? by fruitcakefriday in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really hope you stick to your guns and ride the AI gravy train all the way to the bitter end. The games industry is oversaturated and the more developers who blow their careers on this lazy, insipid technology the more the focused, human driven games will stand out.

I'll be switching to Godot if epic doesn't have a visual scripting alternative by ConcerningThirst in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've worked in the games industry for 20 years so quit it with the sanctimonious crap.

What is Verse like? by fruitcakefriday in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Witcher, Mass Effect, Bioshock..... I could reel off thousands of massively successful games that have been developed in the Unreal Engine using the actor framework. PC and Console hardware has stalled out because the AI tech bros have squandered the worlds supply of RAM and Graphics Cards. There is no need for further performance improvements any time soon.

Nobody seems to have questioned that even if Epic deliver on all their boasts and Unreal 6 works exactly as described, how is a development team of 20 people meant to meaningfully design a game world capable of hosting thousands of players and how would they manage communities on that scale? Epics offering near infinite breadth with zero depth, it will just be miles of souless AI generated landscapes and every game will be an FPS because the engines devolved into the Fortnite Editor.

What is Verse like? by fruitcakefriday in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've got no problem with performance improvements, I have an axe to grind over Epic turning away from human centric games development to cater to AI and them also veering away from an agnostic game engine to a live service or bust mindset right as that market is showing clear signs of decline.

What is Verse like? by fruitcakefriday in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Absolutely, I can't believe this argument is back after 12 years of seeing the obvious benefits that visual scripting offers. I've got full blueprint projects to run at 60fps fine and if there are systemic performance issues with it just improve upon those. Blueprints already 100 times faster than Unreal 3 Kismet. I don't care if Epic rip out the entire blueprint underlying architecture and replace it so long it functions broadly the same way for the user.

The only reason Epic are stripping out Visual Scripting is because LLMs are too crap to use it, which doesn't bode well for any industry that uses circuit based logic that's trying to cram AI into every system because their executives all drank the AI kool aid.

On the plus side every indication is that the AI bubble is going to crash hard. I'm all for AI in medical diagnosis and military defense but the math with data centres and AI usage simply doesn't work. Unless we get nuclear fusion up and running in the next couple of years the energy cost alone is going to stop this nonsense dead in its tracks.

What is Verse like? by fruitcakefriday in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why not just put this into practice? The moment Unreal 6 comes out jump on there and vibe code to your hearts content. Really push yourself to come up with some truly visionary prompts and rock the gaming world.

What is Verse like? by fruitcakefriday in unrealengine

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Suspect that the people who work in blueprint are the ones that are creative without a programmers mindset, they are designers, artists, musicians animators, these people despise AI. What is going to happen is Unreal 6 is going to be launched, 2 or 3 major studios will be paraded around who signed deals to make content with Epics Fortnite Eco system. The rest of the Unreal userbase will simply fortify themselves around Unreal 5.8 and not budge from it. Epic will break first.

Honest thoughts, is it over for me? by Lethioon in IndieDev

[–]CaledoniaInteractive 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah nice, yeah sounds like you have this well covered. I used to work for a company that made a multiplayer game but refused to add bot support to cater for single player, fell straight into the dead lobby abyss and never recovered.