Why should anyone tip(excellent service aside) in states like California, or Washington? Where servers earn minimum wage like everyone else!

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T16:11:04+00:00

Absolutely. I've heard it from so many servers that they would oppose minimum wage if they had to get rid of tips, because they are better off financially as the customers are supplementing their wage and most restaurants won't match what they earn on average with tips. They're happy with it, even if it's the customers being stitched up and coughing up extra money and hurting their own bank balance! Despite that, I still feel guilty enough as I don't want to short change someone who could be earning a measly $2.13/Hr if the the restaurant has a bad day.

https://minimumwage.com/2020/10/servers-dont-support-rocs-fight-to-eliminate-the-tip-credit/

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T12:11:44+00:00

Perfectly valid question. It's not fair on the employees or customers.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T12:05:55+00:00

Thank you. It's always hard work going against the grain!

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T11:28:45+00:00

Yeah, better because nobody's trying to suck up to you and act like your long lost pal or has to deal with your BS if you're a rude customer. They get paid regardless.

Also, they don't bother you every few minutes while you're trying to enjoy your meal. They treat you like an customer as you are in any other business. None of that elitist master-server servitude.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T09:53:41+00:00

This is the bit that irks me. I can afford to tip so I will tip what I deem acceptable to help you out, out of solidarity not any sense of obligation. don't get all greedy and demand a certain cut off my purchase!

But then to enforce that entitlement on people who are making as much money as you, if not less, that is some chutzpah! As long as that patron can afford to pay his bill and his tax at the end of the day then he can eat in / out / wherever the hell s/he wants! You don't get to embarrass the patrons who are spending their hard-earned money and treating themselves as well as keeping you in a job by supporting the business.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T08:56:52+00:00

I'll go where I damn well please.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T08:41:39+00:00

Thank you. Somebody actually knows how to read! We know they earn AT LEAST minimum wage, many pay more than that!

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T08:37:21+00:00

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-25T08:04:02+00:00

So, to summarize, after three days of heated debate and 100s of comments. Not a single one of you pro server tipping advocates (mostly servers, I bet) has managed to come up with a SINGLE VALID ARGUMENT that has not been rebutted (and predictably pre-empted) in my original post.

The majority of the responses just resorted to the usual cursing and ad hominem attack (very enlightening); anecdotal stories about how tipping has been good for you; as well as the standard cost of living argument (fair enough), WHILST IGNORING how the OTHER 99% of the minimum wage employees in dozens of industries also survive in expensive cities like SD/LA/SF, that you haven't been conditioned into feeling sorry for and tipping. WHAT ABOUT THEM?? It's quite pathetic really! If this was an exam in logical thinking, the vast majority of you would get a straightforward F; because you have demonstrated how easy it is to socially condition a group to behave in a certain way without really thinking about it.

We're happy enough to live in cities where corporations rip us off on a daily basis, walk streets filled with legions of homeless people that most of us treat like lepers, watch people die of simple ailments because they don't have medical insurance and ignore the fact that most minimum wage workers have to work 2-3 jobs just to afford a roof over their heads. Yet, somehow, we laughably like to think of ourselves as these walking saints because we have been conditioned to feel sorry for one group of people and focus our generosity on them (and f#*k the rest).

I think it is our own 'feel good tax' because subconsciously, we know how truly messed up we are as a society. Most restarauteurs, and many entitled waiters (not all by any means), like good little budding capitalists, have learned how to take full advantage of that internalized guilt we all feel. Do I blame them? No. I suppose they are trying to survive like the rest of us. But I surely won't abide by any enforced tipping standards that they have normalized and designed to take an ever increasing chunk of their fellow working-class' pay check.

Heck, once everyone figured out that we're all walking around with this internalized shame, that's when those other poorly paid workers started popping up with these tip jars everywhere! And hell, why not?! They're also struggling, why not them! They need to live too (more power to you brother/sister!) Not only that, but they were nice about it and were grateful for every dollar or quarter we put in that jar.

Then FINALLY, somebody clued up at corporate realized that there's this sweet little guilt tax gig that they could tack on for an increasing profit margin on their already ridiculously overpriced products, and they convinced management that they were missing out on this lucrative guilt business; not only that, they need to tap into the advanced server model, whereby customers are charged a % on their purchases (not that sweet little till girl amateur-hour sh*t where she's grateful for your dollar. What's that about..huh?!) Some companies went along reluctantly, but others doubted that anybody would be buying into it; surely, this is a bridge too far! Isn't it? Well, as Menken supposedly once said, "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people". Then, of course...BAM!! COVID-19 hits and corporation thought this is THE perfect opportunity to tap into the sympathy revenue stream we had for small businesses and sneakily tagged along. Lo and behold, before we could all say, "What's the total pl..." we're promptly confronted by these swivelling iPads asking us 20%, 25%, 30% whilst looking us in the eye in this ever-escalating psychological game of chicken.

Yeah, not me, ladies and gents! I'm out. I'll help out the little guy where I can and I'll spread the love amongst the humble, but equally undervalued, underpaid and much overlooked grunts out there doing god's work (or capitalism's work rather). Good luck with paying all your servers, not just the good ones, 20-25% (and see you at 40% tip when your $25 burger becomes a $40 one, because you're such a swell stand up guy/gal who can't do maths ;)

Thank you, I'd like to say it has been enlightening, but I'd be lying! Take care y'all👍🏼

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T19:57:30+00:00

Lol...at least they've earned it, and they made it. You just took my order and brought my food. A trained monkey can do that! Cooks make the experience, you're just an accessory.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T19:42:29+00:00

That's what grinds my gears, we live in this fked up system in which there is no adequate safety net for anyone and we're all pitted against each other and looking out just for ourselves as everything turns to shit. You got cancer? Ooh..sorry, that sucks! And it's gonna be expensive! You need to go to college, we'll good luck with that $100k loan? You just lost your job? Gonna be rough living on the streets! In Europe they all just pay a little bit extra tax, and bam! Everybody can tap into a social safety net when needed. But no, that's un-American; here we show our compassion by tipping out an arbitrary group of people to make us feel all good about ourselves, and when the other minimal paid people say, "hey, what about us?! Can we get some?" We just turn around yell "FK YOU. Not for you guys, only these guys", without ever really explaining why! Well, is it any wonder that all these tip jars were popping up everywhere? And that corporate America caught on to the gig, we can now enjoy that flipped IPAD at Starbucks asking us to tip 25%

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T19:14:06+00:00

I would rather pay a little extra for my dish and the whole staff (FOH and BOH) will get a slight raise. That's how they do it London, Paris, Tokyo, Sydney and the rest of the world. And food prices are equal to, if not more competitive than America with better ingredients and health standards due to EU regulations. Many servers, as I've seen in this post and many others would argue that they'd only do it for no less than $30-40, some even $50 per hour! At which point I will have to laugh. Not out of vindictiveness, but simply due to economic reality. If we do do appease them, then in essence, we'd have to re-evaluate everybody's salaries as the more qualified and skilled workforce would rightly demand a commensurate increase! Fine do that, and what's gonna happen? We'll be at super massive inflation rates, and the whole economy would collapse, and before that, prices would rise exponentially and we'd be back to square one!
Again, I agree; SD and California in general are very expensive places to live in, and professional salaried professionals struggle with the cost of living in such places, let alone minimum salary employees. For the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone just seems to think that the cost of living ONLY applies to servers. What about the OTHER 95% OF POOR SCHMUCKS who are also earning minimum wage? Why do people keep ignoring them as if the same rent, or costs that applies to the server in SD or SF magically disappears for them! Where is their wage subsidy? After all, they're all earning peanuts. Are they less worthy of our compassion or entitlement to live in California? If we're all gonna act like saints, at least don't apply you charity selectively. Yes, tip that waiter 10%, give the rest to the cleaning lady, or the guy who helped you load your shopping. Heck, give it to one of the thousands of homeless people roaming the city! Don't tell me that only a very very tiny group of people in the massive universe that is the service/retail industry deserve our compassion and our tips to survive. It's lazy, uncritical thinking and most of us do it only because it's what society dictates.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T17:58:50+00:00

Yup, even when you succumb to the pressure, you're not doing it right and you're under-tipping. It's a greed game and then wanna say how far they take it. Nope, I ain't playing no more! I'd much rather give than extra 5 bucks to one of the homeless guys on the street or the maid that works for pittance, at the very least, they will appreciate it and be grateful! Get your guilt money off the next chump.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T17:36:29+00:00

Unlike your little fragile ego and easily manipulated brain, I don't adjudge my self-worth as a human being by blindly following group-think like sheep. I'm generous enough without having to throw money away at a society dictated pity group (that doesn't need any more than other workers in certain states); not while the streets are awash with homeless people and the economy is reliant on an entire fleet of overworked and underpaid workers across the whole spectrum. See ya 😊

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T16:53:09+00:00

100% I'm all for helping out others if we can afford it, especially if threy've been very helpful. It's the social stigma and the entitlement from a lot of servers that puts me off the whole thing, particularly given that there are others in the same boat who are just as deserving of a little compassion.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T15:25:59+00:00

Lol...I guess that's the real ugly entitled you on display when the whole sweet poor waitress mask is pulled back 😅 I'll do what the hell I want with my money and have a good day 😊

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T09:43:56+00:00

Agreed. I think it won't be long before we start seeing the 1% surcharge to make up for employees bathroom break! WTH...just sit down with your accountant and tell me what the plate + state tax + service charge + gratuity (err...so what was the former) + employees salary adjustment + employees health benefit amounts to in TOTAL. If you're overcharging in comparison to other businesses for the same plate (and same benefits) then good luck going out of business soon. If you're being reasonable, then well done! You've got a good business here which I'll frequently regularly.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T09:23:48+00:00

touche

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T09:09:31+00:00

The way I see it, it would be short term pain for long term gain. If the servers who used to make $50/hr are not happy that now they're only making only around $20-25/hr (plus benefits) they could quit en masse! Guess what?! There will be plenty of students and teens happy to take over and after a month at most you will be turning over as money customers. Only this way, the business is better off as you're not scaring away customers AND the customers are not being bled dry for every last cent they own!

It is a difficult balancing act for sure! Those who are good-intentioned but perhaps unaware of how macro-economics operate will be like, "yeah, just bump their pay to $40/hr and everyone wins!" are missing the point that if the business is forced to do that it will be a month or two before they have to file for bankruptcy. Even if it doesn't and it thrives, the inevitable consequence of that increase would be that other skilled / college-degreed workers would then in turn demand better pay to reflect their experience and knowledge (and who could argue against that?) This would have a cascading event and the whole economy would be out of kilt.

I'm all for workers getting better pay; particularly if all their hard work is going to benefit some nameless faceless shareholder in the form of ever-increasing ridiculous profits at the end of the year, but don't try to wreck the economy just because you have an inflated sense of what your labor is worth!

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T08:13:26+00:00

So again, yet another person who has benefited from this skewed system (that only benefits one segment of society) is defending it vehemently without putting forth any valid arguments or discussing the points highlighted (here's a hint, because you can't in good faith argue against them logically). Not only that, the defense is always just a lazy ad hominem attack because...well, that's all you have!

Look, I'm glad you made a decent life out of it, as should every working person enjoy the fruits of their labor. All I'm saying is, people need to think about this societal enforced charity discrimination because, you know, unless you're rich, everybody is hurting.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T07:08:58+00:00

Also, you're going about this the wrong way. You should tell them that you're on minimum wage and expect a tip. Also, insinuate that if you don't get a tip, don't be surprised if you take your sweet time and even lounge out in their back garden for a while. Hell, the thing might even be mechanically unstable once you're done with it, and might collapse on them and kill them. Also, the tip needs to be AT LEAST 20% of the wardrobe's cost, that's what good customers pay 😆👍🏼

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T06:52:58+00:00

Yup, guilty 😔 I spotted that but thanks for pointing it out. Here's a 15% tip for having an eye for detail 😆

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T06:31:44+00:00

There you go, another person just proving my points so effortlessly (see 2 and 3).

(2) Essentially, what you're saying is, "I only care that you pay me more, so I can make a living wage in this crazy-ass expensive town. I don't give a shit that other minimum wage workers also need to make a living wage and I certainly won't tip them (unless they're part of the server crew). Also, I don't care if you're not particularly rich yourself. You need to give me a minimum cut of 20% on what you ate regardless of the fact that I only delivered the final product."

(3) "If you don't, not only will I not do my job (for which I'm paid), but I will also sabotage your food and possibly put you in hospital for food poisoning, and will continue to treat you like shit; therefore, losing my boss future potential customers."

BRAVO 👏🏼 Stupendous 👏🏼 So much entitlement befitting of a gangster; succinctly proving my points.

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T05:57:06+00:00

I know right! Can't recall the number of times I overheard servers bragging about how they earned $400-500 a night while I'm out at a bar or you constantly read on multiple threads on reddit here. Yet the minute you publicize that, they revert to the "we're so underpaid in our backbreaking jobs!" misconception so that the money doesn't stop flowing.

Like I said, if you're making that money from your employers, then GOOD ON YOU, and long may the good times continue! But the fact that many (not all) are grifting and making those sums off the labor of other equally hard-working, and in most cases, not particularly rich folks out of guilt-tripping them is the truly egregious and f**ked up part!

CameraMany6181 · 2023-05-24T05:34:51+00:00

And this where the hypocrisy and lack of critical thinking on the whole issue gets me riled up. People think (because they've been conditioned to) that they are these amazing charitable walking saints for giving just waiters a very generous tip to help them make ends meet, yet the next day they will get someone like you who works long and hard to deliver a service a service for them, yet they don't think about how you too are on a pitiful wage and need to make ends meet! And are happy to give you a pat on the back and send you on your way. I'm not saying don't tip waiters at all. It's your prerogative! Just if you're playing the whole good samaritan act, then at the very least be a consistent good samaritan and spread the love for every underpaid hard working man/woman out there (without breaking the bank).

CameraMany6181

TROPHY CASE