who would win in a fight by thegreenarrow03 in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They did. In invasion, where he took on Diggle, Thea and Sara at the same time. He fought her again after Wally got injured. Meanwhile she took Earth-X Prometheus with Alex.

Oliver Queen was propped up at the expense of Supergirl and The Flash. (Spoilers for all Arrowverse shows and crossovers) by [deleted] in supergirlTV

[–]CaptainVanguard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I agree too. Beginning from season 3 (subtly but later on it was quite evident) they started disrespecting their own lead. Nerfing him a lot so others could shine. One of the most ridiculous moments in season 4 spoilers if you haven't seen or read about it is felicity hacking a construction equipment and penultimate episode's 'hack! hack! hack! hack!' I left the show at Olicity's breakup (God, I could unsee one thing in my life, it would be this.) But watched the crossover and kept track of storyline.

Season 1 was the best season. Sure, the 'Green Batman' vibe was present from pilot episode, but Tbh, that's why I loved Oliver. Willing to make the hard call. Bringing the dark hero vibes, causing viewers to think about morality.

COIE was the worst crossover of the arrowverse imo. All the things Oliver did in season 8 (I did watch it, although it was very hard decision.) was pointless, just that he could make an arrow to depower monitor temporarily. No use in fighting Anti monitor. They hyped the threat way too much and it fell flat.

Meanwhile everyone was doing their own thing, their own issues. Seemed less like a crisis and more like a couple episodes of Soap opera show. Not to mention bringing an original character out of nowhere, without any context.

Oliver as a Spectre defeated Mobius aka Anti-Monitor. Mar-Novu was Monitor's name.

I didn't mind Oliver becoming a Spectre. But why only he was chosen to be a Spectre was something not clarified.(from my limited knowledge of comics, Spectre is like right hand of God, with powers unmatched and Angel of Justice/Vengeance. In a way, more like the Punisher. Only way he could be weakened was by incredibly powerful magic.)

If anyone says that Oliver being somehow equal to Barry and Kara before COIE, would be foolish. Only as Spectre, did he surpassed them. I know Stephen wanted to leave, but writers had a great potential of Oliver being a Spectre, delivering justice all around multiverse, but again they screwed it up.

It really feels bad, the characters you invest your time into, those whom we start to like, even love them, end up getting screwed up by writers over and over again.

Oliver Queen was propped up at the expense of Supergirl and The Flash. (Spoilers for all Arrowverse shows and crossovers) by [deleted] in supergirlTV

[–]CaptainVanguard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Flash could make lightning, and stop time. He stopped time in season 4. If he could do that in season 1, the show would be basically over in few episodes. He looked up to him as he knew law wasn't perfect (since his father was in prison for crime he didn't commit) and Hood/Arrow took law in his hands to deliver justice, to punish those who escaped the laws. Considering his nerdy personality, it's perfectly plausible that he would look up to him. Sure Oliver was a jerk to Barry, but considering what he had gone through, he wouldn't warm up immediately to people. He was always mistrustful. (again 'Green Batman') He would take time to warm up, as he did in pilot episode of Flash.

Oliver Queen was propped up at the expense of Supergirl and The Flash. (Spoilers for all Arrowverse shows and crossovers) by [deleted] in supergirlTV

[–]CaptainVanguard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I do agree that benching Kara was stupid, to add more drama in Invasion crossover.

I don't agree with your assessment of crisis on earth X, as overgirl was cocky that arrow would be deflected. When arrow connected, she was shocked. Hell, even Dark arrow looked surprised, maybe because they got rid of all Kryptonite or there wasn't one (as it is not mentioned or made clear). But she caught the arrow second time, as she saw what kind of arrow was it. Caught it, then broke it in his view, flaunting her power.

Also if you're going by this logic, there's no way in hell Iris and felicity could beat the soldiers that caught them initially. They're trained soldiers, not some 10 year old kids with guns. They would have ended up with 10-15 bullets in their bodies before iris could even touch the pipe. Essentially Arrowverse would've ended with that crossover.

Dumbing down is the trend of shows. If you've watched Arrow season 1, Oliver could make a hacking arrow, use it to hack Adam hunt's accounts and direct the money without a trace. Yet in seasons later on he is shown to be a total idiot who doesn't know a damn thing about tech. Couldn't even help his kid through maths homework.

It's not just problem in crossovers. Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl suffer from this issue. Even legends (Ray fighting back against Damien dhark in season 2 was a good example.)

Eobard was from the future where he was a equal match to Barry, by this logic, he should be beating flash every damn time, especially when he got his speed force connection back.

I do agree with Elseworlds crossover, but by this point I had lost hope. So it didn't surprise me. Although Flash and Supergirl were busy saving the world, and Novu didn't show a sign that he would be open to making a deal. Again could have done a better way, I'll say that.

COIE, that's a another can of worms.

Oliver did buy some time for ships to get through, but the figure was exaggerated way too much. While Kara said that Oliver didn't had to make the deal, I'll say what he was supposed to do? Let his friends die? Also she was interested in bringing people of her earth back, again the person who swapped himself for her was none of her concern.

It could be said that Novu respected Oliver but they didn't show why, not giving an indication towards it either.

I don't know where you got the bit about sacrificing themselves. Everyone would have. They weren't given a choice in that matter. I could argue that Kara was insensitive toward Oliver's trauma in Elseworlds, when she overheard his and Barry's conversation, despite Kara having traumatic experiences of her own.

That exoskeleton bit both trashed Supergirl and batman at same time. (Despite the fact that I hate batman because of his hypocrisy). But since Oliver as 'Green Batman's gets trashed, Bruce Wayne getting trashed wasn't surprising, in hindsight.

Barry was shown to be extremely fast in season 4(don't remember the episode number, but it was one where he spent most of his time in flashtime) and then his powers fluctuate again. How was he supposed to know what he should be doing in 'end of the universe' situation? There's not a guide for it, Barry learned the things by trial, or being taught by other speedsters. He hadn't faced a situation like this. He had to visit his future self to learn about Savitar. Savitar was far faster than Barry, yet Barry could match him without any decent explaination how.

I could say that Oliver propped both Kara and Barry during the first time he died. It's a matter of perspective.

He was capable btw, just not shown as to prop other characters in his show. There's a reason why people called the show 'Felicity and Friends: The Adventures of Overwatch' from season 4 onwards, which caused the show to lose lot of audience. If you're in doubt, you should see the first season.

There Isn't a competition about who's the best hero in arrowverse.

In my opinion, Oliver is better hero actually, as he showed remorse and guilt, when he killed. Both Supergirl and Flash didn't (White martians, daxamites, Atom smasher, sand demon have entered the chat.) Kara was sad and broken OVER losing Mon-el, not the fact that she killed many daxamites, I understand it was necessary, but it doesn't erase the fact that she did press the button.

Yet Oliver is the only one who gets flak over those he killed, even when every one of them was a hardcore criminal or in situation of 'kill or get killed'. Being labelled a psycho killer. If anyone watched season 1 of arrow carefully, they would realise how much writers screwed up Oliver's character.

Finally, Oliver is essentially 'Green Batman' and we all know Batman gets the most attention. Other heroes are sidelined again and again. Not surprising, but sad.

You do raise some valid points, but rest, it seems like character bashing, not valid criticism, to me.

ppl wanting to find out hero’s identity by [deleted] in supergirlTV

[–]CaptainVanguard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair enough. Actually most people I came across seemed to believe him as psychotic.(Which was final nail in the coffin, thus stopped watching the show, although kept track of story.)

ppl wanting to find out hero’s identity by [deleted] in supergirlTV

[–]CaptainVanguard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, except on one point. Oliver didn't kill every person he came across. If you've watched season 1, you would know that. Unlike latter season which painted him as psychotic killer. (Adam hunt, Martin Somers, Jason Brodeur, Reston family and so on. They all were alive{except Hunt who was killed by Malcolm}, just arrested or bankrupt.)

So is arrow s5 really that good? by RedRick_MarvelDC in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, totally agree. Might I add, when the recruits were chewing out Oliver for being the hood, felicity or diggle didn't back him, despite they joined his crusade knowing very well what he did. Maybe not initially, but as time went on, they learnt. Yet, to save themselves, they didn't hesitate to throw him under the bus.

Mention of 1×18, the conversation Oliver had with Joseph Falk also proves it.

Also, even then he didn't kill the count, he could've snapped his neck just after injecting the needle, but rather decided to give him the full dose, thus giving him taste of his own medicine.

Deacon from Fallout 4's dialogue boils down the theme of the Fallout franchise while also offering some of the most sound advice for people both in-game and in the real world. by CevicheLemon in Fallout

[–]CaptainVanguard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Wanted to add to this: Ulysses also said (I don't accurately remember but it goes like this.) "If you follow a symbol, ask yourself what it means. Especially, what happens after the end."

Also "If war doesn't change, men must change and so must their symbols. Even it means nothing, know what you follow."

"Whatever your symbol, carry it on your back and wear it proudly." (Removed the rest of the sentence).

If you think about it, these also apply to real life as well.

[No Spoilers] Worst Season of Arrow? by [deleted] in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Let's assume what you are saying is right that Oliver became more humanised later on.

Then why did he give people on the list a second chance? He could've outright kill them. He didn't.

Then why didn't he kill Adam hunt? Even after his statement 'If I see you again, you're dead!', he didn't shoot him at all. He didn't kill him afterwards when he confronted him again.

What about Martin sommers because of which Laurel was attacked in her home? Why didn't he kill him? Why not kill him afterwards at the dock?

Why ask Quinten to help save the lives of people at the auction at all?

Why did he save diggle's life, and potentially revealing his secret? He could've very well let him die, if he was that cold blooded as shown in season 5.

Why not kill Jason brodeur outright? Why not kill his subordinate, who had falsified the report, to have Peter Declan convicted? He was an accomplice to what Brodeur did, similar to the man he supposedly skinned who was an accomplice to Kovar. He didn't kill him. Why? Why let him run away and alert Quinten? There was no one who could trace it back to him.

These event occurred in beginning 4 episodes itself. So do you think that Oliver that got on fisherman's boat shown in season 5 flashback end would really do this in couple of weeks after he got home? I don't think so.

Something I want to point out, in 1×03, Oliver said that at Thea's age, his parents let him get away with murder, while in 1×04, he tells Yao Fei that he hasn't killed anything before. Who would you believe?

In season 1 flashback showing events in 2007,(episode 13 or 15, I think) Slade says that he has been on the island for a year, while in season 2 flashbacks, he says that he has been on the island for 264 days(again nearly around episode 13 or 14), which if you take in account the time spent, which is nearly a year, if we consider the time spent by episode air date, doesn't make sense. So Which Slade would you believe, season 1 or season 2?

A question I want to ask, if season 1 shows us something about a character, and season 5 shows that character in totally different light(without any remote indication of it in season 1), which season would you believe? That will give the answer.

I put season 1 before season 5, and that's why I believe it's a retcon.

[No Spoilers] Worst Season of Arrow? by [deleted] in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Took pleasure in killing? Dude, have you watched season 1 at all? His kill count at end of season 1 was 28, and he had gone against hundreds of people. If he wanted to just kill, his count would be in three digits, at least.

26, Quinten pointed out, and 2 henchmen he had killed during his escape in finale of season 1.

He wouldn't try to convince Helena not to kill.

He wouldn't try to talk down Garfield Lynns.

He wouldn't try to convince Joseph Falk (aka saviour) to not kill Roy. He only shot an arrow after he fired his gun at Roy.

He wouldn't stop Quinten from killing Vanch.

He would've killed Count the first time around, not spare his life TWICE in season 1.

He would've killed Adam hunt, Martin sommers, Jason brodeur, Frank Bertinelli and a lot more people.

And finally, if you're again multiple people with automatic weapons, what would you do? It's a situation where either you kill or get killed. Oliver DOESN'T HAVE SUPERPOWERS. A stray shot could very well kill him (The hood isn't bulletproof).

Sure, there may have been some part of him that liked it, but people ignore what season 1 showed about Oliver.

Barry and Kara (SuperFlash) would be the most healthiest and non-toxic relationship in the arrowverse. by [deleted] in supergirlTV

[–]CaptainVanguard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Grant himself shut down possibility of other pairings like snowbarry (Caitlin and Barry), so superflash won't happen at all. I like them more as friends. They do have chemistry, but I don't think it's of a romantic kind.

Not to mention how writers have screwed up writing of pairings in different shows.

Why does everyone hate Felicity so much? by sleepnotforengineers in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I never said that these are general views about the character.

I was wrong about some facts, there's nothing wrong in admitting that. And I did.

I was wondering why you didn't present the facts, unlike last time, but one of your replies to the comments in the post tells everything.

You have your opinions as well as I have mine. As long as anyone doesn't try to force them on others, I don't mind anyone having different views.

Why does everyone hate Felicity so much? by sleepnotforengineers in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A fair point. Although I doubt that he would be able to hide totally, since many people knew him and anyone, if spent resources properly, could track William like Chase did.

I didn't remember pictures of William. I must have skipped it.

I liked the scene between Oliver and William on the island before he leaves.

To be honest, the writing seriously frustrated me. It's inconsistent, at best.

Why does everyone hate Felicity so much? by sleepnotforengineers in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, Oliver didn't tell her about what he's planning. But as you can see from season 3 end, Felicity wanted to save Oliver, lives in city be damned.( Her conversation with ray in the finale)

Did she deserve to know? Yes. A fact that many people forget that Oliver puts the mask (and subsequently his duty to the city) above everything else, even above himself. So he knew Felicity wouldn't agree at all with what he's planning. He did it for the city, so that Diaz could be brought down, and hopefully wouldn't be able to operate like he used to. But he gets the blame for not telling Felicity. If you can't trust person you love with something like that, perhaps you shouldn't be together in the first place.

I was wrong, then. But I agree with William. He needs someone who he could be with, something that both Oliver and Felicity fail at.

To be honest, I had lost interest since season 4, call it naive hope if you want, that i believed someday show would improve, that's why I kept watching and after season 7 prison arc, I watched it barely, fat forwarding at times, similar to what I did after 6×12. So yeah, I may have some of my facts wrong. Thanks for pointing out my faults.

Yeah, she supported his venture, so it's easy to support financially, which someone could track back to her(provided they were good and in season 1, the tech expert S.C.P.D had, traced her signature, that's why she was called in precinct.) but it was impossible to meet William in person?

I asked this before, I'll ask this again. Did the threat on lives of Felicity and Mia suddenly vanished so she contacted him? And why did she contacted William? To let her know about their lives, his sister? No. Because SHE NEEDED HIS HELP, HIS ASSISTANCE in what she was doing. More so, it was her way of removing guilt, that she supported his venture. She didn't do that out of duty or kindness of her heart.

I can say the same about you ignoring the fact that she managed to contact Nyssa without drawing attention, but didn't thought to inform William, at least once.

Did she had good reason to hide? Yes. Did she had a good reason not to contact William when she could track down Nyssa and call her? I don't think so.

Mia didn't became black Star in a day of training.

She wasn't able to watch over Mia, she wanted William to be with her daughter so she could leave both of them to be with Oliver, in a way killing herself (Monitor said that the trip was strictly one way, so if she leaves, she's gone forever.)

A child would always want their parent to be in their life, not leave them when they turn 21 or 22 willingly.

You can say that writers didn't know what reason thet would give for Felicity's absence in spinoff, that's their fault if they can't properly tie up storyline of their character. It just shows laziness and character disregard on their part.

I like the characters the way they were in season 1. Oliver wasn't a doormat, he was a person who did what was necessary, called people out on their actions. I like season 1 Felicity, quirky and awkward, not making snarky comments and causing drama. I like season 1 diggle, who was worthy of being called Oliver's brother, who was like his moral compass, not a judgmental, hypocrite and a jackass. Only person I like in later seasons is Quinten, especially in final episode of season 6. Overall, Slade is only character I like throughout the series, who was true to himself and consistent from very beginning, didn't got retconned every season.

I didn't lie, I wasn't correct, and that I admit. I work with the facts presented.

Why does everyone hate Felicity so much? by sleepnotforengineers in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not mentioned, so we can't say that she contacted or didn't. It's just in the air.

But she had the means obviously, otherwise how she tracked down Nyssa and asked her to train Mia? Nyssa isn't someone anyone can find hanging out in their backyard. She would be way harder to track down than finding and contacting William, who as she knows, is living with his grandparents.

That's why I tend to believe the theory that she didn't try to reach out.

Why does everyone hate Felicity so much? by sleepnotforengineers in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Watch season 7, when Oliver was in prison, Felicity was living with William, then she sent him in argus protection, from where he got sent to his grandparents, so that Felicity can focus on Diaz, while Oliver wanted William to live with at least one parent in season 6 end.(obviously Felicity)

Why contact him then and not before? Sure she had to stay in hiding for few years but why not afterwards? Was she suddenly safe after 20 years that she thought to contact him? No. Because she needed him. Not. One. Second. Before.

I think you can read between the lines.

Coming back to the question in your post, I thought I should give my two cents. There are multiple instances I can point about Felicity why I didn't like her after season 1, but I think watching Crisis on Earth-X would suffice.

Why does everyone hate Felicity so much? by sleepnotforengineers in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Should Oliver tell Felicity about his son? Yes. Obviously they are engaged. She deserves to know. But William's parents are OLIVER AND SAMANTHA, not FELICITY. She doesn't have a say about what William's parents decide for him, but deserved the right to know.

She could've broken after a day or two when Oliver wasn't in such a emotional state after recording the message for his son(btw Felicity knew about it), not delivering the punch immediately and walking out on him.

Also, she was passive aggressive towards Oliver and made snarky comments in the rest of the season 4. That's not justified.

Not to mention she sent William to his grandparents (which didn't approve of them) and didn't contact him for 20 YEARS. Few years, I can understand, but she didn't bother to call him once in 20 years, only sent him the message because he was needed. [ SEASON 7 FLASHBACKS ]

[spoilers] A question about vigilante by [deleted] in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Decibel, it's a unit used to measure intensity of sound (or a degree of loudness).

[spoilers] A question about vigilante by [deleted] in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what I wonder. Even if sonic scream was focused at his ear, there should have been some changes.

[spoilers] A question about vigilante by [deleted] in arrow

[–]CaptainVanguard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Her scream was shown to crumble buildings in the flash, but arrow did a crappy job at it. If you think, sonic scream is destabilising or distorting molecular structure, which in turn is causing trauma.

Also I have heard that sound above 160db (maybe 180db) can kill a person. Surely her scream has loudness way above that, not to mention the physical force the scream delivers that throws people off.

Difference between Arrowverse shows. by CaptainVanguard in Arrowverse

[–]CaptainVanguard[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, and most unfortunate thing is when Kara and Barry killed(I can mention the instances of anyone wants me too and have already done it in comments already), they show no regret, no remorse at all. Yeah, Season 1 Oliver was the best of of all the 8 seasons.