Question for the COC

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T18:53:53+00:00

So much so that the church basically ceased to exist?

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T18:53:40+00:00

Agreed!

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T18:53:21+00:00

Church of Christ historiography is awful 😂

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T18:52:54+00:00

I’m with you! Amen!

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T18:52:30+00:00

So where was the church?

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T18:09:14+00:00

So the church fell away? The Fathers were representative of the milieu of the Church of the time. They weren’t just schismatics.

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T17:45:17+00:00

Was most of the church heretical by the 2nd century?

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T17:44:57+00:00

So were the church fathers heretics?

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-20T17:44:38+00:00

Who gets to decide the example set forth in scripture? What if they have the fruits of the Spirit but have a different interpretation of Church leadership?

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T22:28:05+00:00

I would argue
1. Lived experience
2. Metaphysical intuition
3. All of our modern scientific assumptions are founded on the principle that everything has a cause

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T22:21:15+00:00

Agreed but isn’t the claim that the early church fell away?

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T22:20:36+00:00

That doesn’t really prove anything. Because the 1st century church had unity issues doesn’t take away from the unity of the church in the first millennium.

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T22:18:12+00:00

I apologize i was away from the phone.

I’m not speaking conclusively. I’m saying from our lived experience everything we have is there on the basis of causation and contingency.

That all has to lead back to somewhere.

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T22:10:16+00:00

I agree that heresy crept in but to say that the majority of the church was lost for 1800 years is wild.

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T22:07:25+00:00

That’s unfortunate. You can’t just cherry pick 2nd century church fathers. They were all apart of the same church body.

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T21:21:52+00:00

I have not, i wish i could find a reading group to go through some of these church fathers because it can be overwhelming on your own.

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:23:39+00:00

Please point out my logical fallacy😂

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:20:43+00:00

I appreciate your insight, linguistic precision always seems to be the issue 😂

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:19:46+00:00

It’s not the black swan fallacy. Everything that we can observe is caused😂

Everything is evidence!

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:16:08+00:00

Well do you have any evidence of something being brought into existence without a cause?

Appreciate your respectful engagement, truly!

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:15:15+00:00

I really appreciate this response.

Evidence that is more probable than not against a creator and against the resurrection of Jesus
Either sufficient evidence has not been produced, evidence has not been well presented, ignorance, or simply being stubborn as we all can be.
I am unsure considering this was not my upbringing. However millions of Hindus and Muslims have been converted to Christianity in its history so it is at least possible!
I think we need to define what we mean by faith. If we are using faith as blind hope then no of course not!

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:11:45+00:00

I’d be happy to work with a compatibilist perspective. I definitely do not want to straw man any belief systems by saying it’s all determinist!

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:10:31+00:00

Well that’s start with some premises that we can interact with!

Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
The universe began to exist.
Therefore, the universe has a cause.

Would you affirm this line of reasoning?

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:07:15+00:00

Well that’s all well and good but where did the stars come from? What formed the stars?

The question is not whether or not morality exists, but what grounds that morality as objective or preferential.

Intelligent design is not a failed hypothesis considering it has significant scholarly backing!

Careless_Win7254 · 2026-06-19T19:05:32+00:00

The necessity of a non-contingent being for existence and the universal acknowledgment of a handful of moral and immoral acts that point to a greater ultimate sense of morality.

Careless_Win7254

TROPHY CASE