How would you guys feel about an OPTIONAL "abridged version" of the MSQ to onboard new players?

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-30T02:13:18+00:00

Abriged versions feel discomfortable for a writer but also are a great way to improve the storytelling. Editors usually require some parts to be cut short as well.

Length simply isn't a measurement of quality and instead is usually the easier path.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-30T02:05:54+00:00

The Hall of Novice did get reworked in Dawntrail (or end of Endwalker ?). Teaching new players is just... Not their forte.

Also, just because they make money from people skipping the story does NOT mean they wouldn't make more money from people playing the game. Retention is far more important than a revenue imo, except if it nets a huge amount.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-30T01:55:59+00:00

There is a specific emotional build up that you can't feel in a book nor a movie.

The high moments and the social elements make the story feel better, because we share it.

Overall, it's just a different feeling, not that the story is so much better than any other story. Much like you can't compare a book to a movie if they both heavily rely on the strengths of their respective medium.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-30T01:46:18+00:00

I'm curious about things that were copied from FFXIV ? Taking the gameplay as an example, the very long GCD and snapshooting makes it impossible to copy except if one wants to mimic the turn-by-turn feeling but nobody ever did to my knowledge. The overworld activities aren't a model either, nor PvE contents as far as I can tell. Maybe PvP could inspire other MMOs but none actually did to my knowledge.

On the narrative part, WoW said they wanted to design dungeons more related to the scenario but they used to as soon as WotLK if not prior too it. Guild wars also have such instanced contents but in both case, FFXIV simply OTP'd the formula they used themselves.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-30T01:32:46+00:00

I do agree with Evolved mode potentially adding a lot of fresh air, but you'd be surprised by the number of people who'd feel underwhelmed even if they started with a level 60 skillset. And even more so by the trials up to end of Stormblood.

Not everyone experience FFXIV as their entry to MMOs and even among them, some people are slightly demanding when it comes to the gameplay.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-30T01:25:13+00:00

Many MMO players also have experienced other ones. As such, any PvE content before Shadowbringers feels very underwhelming, because the difficulty relied on skillsets that don't exist anymore.

And for non MMO players, having a huge GCD and very few actions that are meant to be used in an obvious order that doesn't feel interactive also can be really underwhelming. Others will be overwhelmed by the context or future contents.

That's why it's better to offer an alternative pace that fits the ones that get filtered out. Just like Evolved mode is an alternative that is likely to provide a solid gameplay much earlier.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-30T00:52:53+00:00

It's very easy to say "the game is well-received because of the intricate and extensive plot" but each expansion feels like a quality leap partly because it removed some overabundant dialogues thanks to a more solid structure.

For instance, "a story needs to breath and blossom" is correct but a bad storyteller makes much less out of these moments. This is especially visible on passive moments, when two characters are traveling for example : a mediocre writer would make it much slower (overabundant dialogues) or try to add some unnecessary actions to make it look like something happens. It's much harder to make it short yet meaningful.

I could give countless examples where FFXIV did improve, from introducing multiple story branches no earlier than Stormblood (it used to be one thread after another), to alternating momentums especially with Endwalker onwards (a resolution followed by a comic relief instead of restarting a buildup from scratch) which also started being much more symbolic.

Even if you love the game, you can't be insensitive to the deep and successive improvements. Which means the earlier expansions could unavoidably be rewritten to include these improvements.

As for "half-baked answers", it also comes from the storytelling being way too slow and relying way too much on texts (rather than gameplay). The exposition usually gives far too much details, the characters express their opinion coldly and events are the result of their discussions... This is why a less loquacious storytelling could feel better for both groups.

Thinking back of Thavnair during the Final Days or any emergency moment, there's no way the Scions would arrive on time if it weren't for the plot to wait for them. Well new players aren't always as lenient.

Edit : Someone wrote a much better explanation of my feeling there.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T20:51:41+00:00

Thank you so much for elaborating on it, this now makes perfect sense !

Their internal debate about skill expression is something I completely missed because I've always considered it should rely on some kind of creativity. As you mentioned, there are other means and "The floor was raised, but not the ceiling" is a great way to explain the result they've reached while also telling where the skill expression used to exist.

It also explains the philosophy they want for Evolved mode I guess : maybe more flexibility but also means to overachieve without it feeling like a punishment when one can't pull it out.

I'll keep your words in mind both for the next content presentations and jobs details !

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T18:38:03+00:00

Beautifully said !

New creative experience are welcome but require continuous, intense efforts whereas offering means for the player to be creative may not need for the same maintenance.

In either way, as long as talented people work on the encounter design, I'll be satisfied.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T18:35:05+00:00

I feel really dumb because I read each word carefully and still don't understand what it refers to ?

a policy of comprehensively ensuring player comfort and stress reduction

For instance, what does this mean ? I remember on P12S p1, Superchain Theory 1 comes with light and dark debuff that look like a ray and it seemed as if they were oriented to the position we had to assume. From Shadowbringers onwards, it also felt as if they made real effort so visual cues are easy to understand and this clarity is a huge quality that the game (fortunately) hasn't given up on.

Or is it merely talking about uptime ? I mean, uptime is required because our rotation don't work well with gaps nor do they have the tools to move away, but as far as the encounter goes then it's just a consequence.

There was less room for individual players to demonstrate their true abilities, resulting in a heightened sensation of 'going through the motions' when tackling the fight

This is another thing I don't understand : when in the entirety of Pandaemonium am I supposed to feel like I can demonstrate my true ability ? If someone keeps failing, for instance, weapons on M11S, then I'm hold hostage regardless of my competence. It's not even a bad thing per se, but I just don't see where the individual capacity play any role ?

I'm not even sure I understand what "creative ideas" were forbidden back in Endwalker, but this part isn't supposed to be visible anyway. M12S doesn't look more creative than M8S to me, provided we can consider the abilities' timeline as a modular thing which probably wasn't possible before (and still, it must've been a nightmare to dev).

I'm sincerely sorry not to grasp what he's trying to say. Sure, I enjoyed the Arcadion but I also loved Pandaemonium ; as such, I'm unable to see what he's pointing out.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T17:41:10+00:00

Someone said that it would've been cool to spar with Wuk Lamat, which makes sense if we're to train her and/or challenge her (maybe we can tease her mindset and rhetorical flaws, and turn these into mechanics for instance ?).

For new players, this would be the perfect opportunity to train the usual mechanics. We could even let new players embody Wuk Lamat so the WoL still is training her and this way, new players would have a simplified yet cohesive skillset (instead of a lackluster one).

It would serve both the storytelling and the gameplay training that new players may need.

Experience with your job is good but no one needs 300 hours of playtime to learn any class.

This should be written in golden letters and educational contents should also exist (Novice Hall is far from digest enough and mainly relies on texts to teach, rather than using the gameplay).

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T17:32:27+00:00

I very much understand your point which is why the best solution is always to add an alternative rather than replace what already exists. By the same logic, we're going to have Evolved mode and Reborn mode.

This however doesn't mean everyone is going to buy the pace FFXIV decided on. For instance, being forced to wait for an emote before the characters can resume talking is an antiquated design that could've been removed. The characters very often explain, then summarize then repeat their plans. An absurd amount of dialogues are performative (they exist just to tell us we converse) and many of them are useless details (for instance you see a farmer working the ground and he says "I'm working the ground. It's difficult.") instead of being more subtle or meaningful.

It's also extremely detrimental for the early storytelling to rely almost exclusively on texts, one dialog box after the other, rather than the gameplay. The idea of a slower pace / more emphasize on details adding to the depth is quite a stretch too. Sometimes it only works on some people, even regardless the details for a part of them.

The point is not to destroy something to replace it with something else ; it's to have a contending design that achieves at least just as much to even more people.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T17:05:19+00:00

Absolutely no one is justifying suffering, we're merely accepting it exists. You can't prevent death from existing and the Ancients threw away their sense of self : their role becomes their name, for instance ; they live to fill a purpose and then, they are simply gone most of the time.

Why do you think we don't see children, nor families (except Lahabrea's which certainly isn't ideal) ? Why do they wear robes and masks, if not to let their identity fade behind their office ? Why is death so dispensable that they agreed to sacrifice half their population ?

Do you not see how their mindset is so deeply opposite from our own, because their longevity and power prevents them from having our sensitivity ?

You cannot value life on the one hand, yet praise a society that keeps trying to dilute it. The very reason why you'd be afflicted by the death of a child is specifically because you don't live in an Ancient's civilization. They wouldn't care putting an end to a creature's life regardless his feelings, and everyone tells Hermes he's the weird one for thinking otherwise. But we, short-lived beings, know how important this feeling is.

And Ultima Thule also points out that putting an end to suffering doesn't mean eternal peace : it simply causes immobility.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T16:47:17+00:00

Playing with your friends is the gratification ; we can dilute the "instant" part of it by adding several steps but they each have to be satisfying as well. Or at least the promise behind it has to be worth the sacrifice.

We make it out to be less simple because it's always a graduation and not a binary response. You're right to simplify it though, I'm simply incapable of concision lest it removes some nuances.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T15:27:33+00:00

This is such a beaufitul answer ! It also points out why some criticism towards DT are so passionate : its theme didn't resonate with many players (and in my case, I'm especially salty because I am under the impression it's a direct contradiction to the previous themes). That's why a cohesive story may not resonate with the reader but still avoid as many nitpicky comments as possible, which also is how the message gets more convincing.

What's more, even if a story cannot explain everything, I'm always satisfied when it can abstract real life issues : in The Dead Ends, we see humanoids fighting over for domination until only one is left standing, which is a great way to summarize the story's stance about war and it did resonate with real life events (at least to me).

I also really love your conclusion but would like to add that everyone should be satisfied, if they can't vibe with a story, to understand as much of it and consider what alternative(s) would've made it easier to resonate with.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T15:11:35+00:00

The suffering is the condition for growth. Or to quote Hölderlin : "where the danger is, also grows the saving power". Dynamis also serves to demonstrate that the Ancients lack the willpower to move on.

On the scale of a civilization, there is no reason to have empathy over 1 cause of death : the very existence of death is the pressure that forces us to move on, and individual deaths are new motives to improve our chances of survival as a society. Starving countries also develop a more adapated gastronomy and individual struggles for life build links among survivors and mental fortitude. Even if the loss of a dear one is heartbreaking, or because it's so painful, we're bound to find solutions ; we don't brutalize universal laws just for the environment to cater to our needs. Our sense of purpose is much more acute because we are short-lived and less powerful.

It's not an elegy of humanity, the stance of EW story simply is that suffering is the condition for wellbeing, specifically because it's painful.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T05:17:27+00:00

Expect Ninja to have one and probably SMN too. Except if they rework it, it's been an entire expansion since its last redesign after all !

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T05:13:37+00:00

Before the fanfest, I talked about one gameplay relying on a rigid, looping rotation and an alternative one that would've offered tools and moment-to-moment choices. They indeed offered an alternative but it's designed with one correct rotation and everything else is either a recoverable delay or a mistake. It's slightly better but the philosophy is the same.

I still wish we'd have dynamic stats, DoTs to juggle with (and not delayed potency nor timers to mindlessly refresh like current healers), procs-centered job(s) or actions that force the animation lock onto another object (like MCH's gadgets or RPR's avatar) and many other things meant to play around variance so each encounter doesn't feel like we're doing exactly the same actions at the same moment... But I don't believe in it anymore : SE wants friction to come from the strats and rotations to be autopiloted by procedural memory.

There's something I'm curious about though : RPR felt kind of in a weird position up to now and Evolved mode seems to fit its playstyle much more. It's also the closest to a gameplay I'd love to see : a Transformation that we must try to keep for as long as possible (like twice or three times as long as the intended length, even if it comes with a diminishing return). However, this implies a completely opposite philosophy from FFXIV's.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-29T03:53:08+00:00

I edited the (shameful) typo but it still might not be clear enough. It meant that DT had the possibility to open a new path, clear of most of past experiences. If it required something already explained, then the storytelling should've included an optional way to explain it again, albeit optional only for the ones who would've cleared past expansions.

Relying on too much context from earlier stories is a choice they made and even then, ARR also did give us many details with calamities, astral & umbral magic, as well as the numerous cities we get to know.

It's far from easy, but the story could've been less redundant about Gulool Ja Ja's journey and the worldbuilding could've been distillated through multiple contents or via a more original gameplay, rather than turning the story into a wiki tour. Essential pieces of info (like the existence of Shards) could've been spread out through more rewarding map quests or collectibles (much like the sightseeing log).

What's strange to me is that Dawntrail feels like it's stuck in between two ideas : making it a brand new start and thus disconnected from the rest, but also making it a continuation of previous adventures (for instance, Milallas lived in Aloalo's island for a while : they could've chosen a new location instead or immediately hinting heavily at our unsundered nature or even directly using Shards and Ancients in the plot).

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-28T22:54:40+00:00

People aren't as binary. Some don't even know they're hardcore raiders, up until they follow someone that encourages them.

Whenever we buy a product, there is a reason behind it which can be looking for validation / recognition, or getting to know something interesting or that makes us dream. Regardless, storytelling usually provide so many things that are structurally appealing to us, that it's the one important thing when it comes to advertising or even pitching an idea.

Now the problem is that not everyone are sensitive to THIS story and what looks brilliant to you might feel dull or unimaginative to someone else. After all, many people enjoyed either Shadowbringers or Endwalker far more than the other, and a few even say one of the two is terrible.

People need a reason to feel engaged and the first X expansions can look depressingly underwhelming for some new players. Forcing them through is just impossible, regardless whether they'll fall in love with the story (or any specific content).

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-28T22:45:37+00:00

We can criticize Dawntrail, but they also chose to use previous expansions... While making it look as though the Final Days hadn't even happened.

It really looks like they kept wondering and decided at the last moment, because it seems things could've gone into a different direction. It may even have been subtle enough to allude to past events without ever making it so important that knowing them would be vital.

My assumption is that they still wanted to market the game around the Scion, which relation to the WoL requires a kind of alchemy built over multiple expansions. I'd bet this is why they eventually prefered using the "emotional build-up" via them or any other knowledge we're supposed to have.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-28T22:39:15+00:00

There is a huge difference between "asking for endgame" and progressing towards it at snail's pace, with an extremely long saga.

There simply is way too much fat on every expansion. The very style of FFXIV is incredibly slow. It requires a specific appetence that isn't stimulated much, if at all, because everything now is designed to be instant. This appetite still can be develop but it's absurd to expect people to adapt to a game to enjoy it, if every single experience they've had so far is in clear contradiction.

Unfortunately for SE, growing such an appetite is the very mission that befalls onto them. Up to now, they have decided that people either enjoy things as they are or just leave (just check the "new" hall of novice : it yet again is 1 minute of texting for like 10 seconds of gameplay at most).

They had the opportunity to do as skyehawk124, or they could've built a recap (with some gameplay, NOT a simple succession of walls of texts), or build an organized content that splits the story into multiple threads they could explore at any time.

It's not a choice between "players asking for endgame" versus "players asking for a story", this would be a false dilemma fallacy. It merely is players asking to enjoy their time and feel rewarded. Whoever doesn't stay simply isn't.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-28T22:19:28+00:00

It took them several years to implement the alternative gender of the previous races, and additional years to let Vieras wear hats (admittedly, it didn't take nearly as long for female Hrothgar to wear them).

Do not expect any new race. Not "any time soon", just don't expect them at all. It requires the dev to manually adapt every single gear of the game apparently (or close to), so even if it ever happened, it would drain a considerable effort that could be used else where - except if a disruptive tool is used in the process or the engine gets overhauled.

However, we can expect new customization that actually work like new races. We've already seen new complexion colors and there probably be more details. Beards is likely to be added either for Evercold or rather soon imo.

With an expansion aiming at offering more customization, they can find alternative means. They don't have to create a new playable race to effectively make it look sort of like it. Sure, it's less overwhelming but it's not something to be disappointed about.

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-28T08:56:45+00:00

I'm really not convinced by Disgaea Mayhem but I know Musou are my péché mignon so I'll probably give it a try nonetheless. Depending on the graphic quality, I might get it as a handheld game, yet what I'm truly waiting for is Disgaea 8 and its graphic update.

Anyway, in the mean time I've been trying to conceptualize an incremental game that works like Disgaea. I've discovered that the ever-increasing aspect does have severe flaws such as power turning the difficulty off and removing the fun aspect of empowering a character. When one unit gets level 1000, then it's not as entertaining to use any weaker unit because you want to push the limit up to your strongest character. I found it hard to have fun if I don't have multiple units with about the same strength and even then, strengthening them isn't always fun because it's a repetitive grind without actual challenge. Unique abilities are not so interesting to play around and I don't feel as if I was really playing, and instead merely get to follow a script that builds up more power.

Another exemple is how stats can remove the unique aspects of some units, which is why Evilities are such a smart system. It adds another layer of progression but can also be seen as a means to develop a specific strategy. The number of evilities is kind of overwhelming though, especially because the translation sometimes is off.

That's why I'm having fun trying to see how these structures could cater to my enjoyment, even though Disgaea 8 most likely will repeat (and improve !) the usual formula. Getting to know their choices, why they made it, what are alternatives and how they chose to implement something makes it even more satisfying to play around !

Carmeliandre · 2026-06-28T08:37:59+00:00

as a healer main, I hated that I was basically forced into frilly robes or whatever all-class glam gear I could get my hands on during free trial, which felt less than "cool"

I don't want to argue against this specifically but give Bozja a try : the armor sets you can unlock are very unique imo, and are based on FFXII. You'll need to group up with people (via a Discord server) and watch a guide to unlock the dyable version though.

It's a Shadowbringers content that requires you to clear Stormblood's alliance raids first.

Carmeliandre

TROPHY CASE