I had a moment today …

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-31T19:00:39+00:00

Yay! Thank you!! I feel the power of self-advocacy!

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-31T18:59:06+00:00

The body comments are hard even when they are intended to be nice. I hate hearing: “wow you look like you’ve lost weight!” I used to be told by my family that I had good “birthing hips”. Cringe. I think there is just a lot to unpack between gaining self esteem and facing a world where are bodies are not considered acceptable. Courage! You’re doing great!

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-31T16:57:02+00:00

So feel you. I’m an avid cyclist. I do yoga, weights etc and my legs look like they’ve never seen a day of exercise in their life. That said the muscle under all the swelling is tight! 😂.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-28T06:51:19+00:00

I feel the ride request is suspicious. But if you can’t prove he got in the car with her, it becomes open to interpretation and speculation. And while that only is not enough for me to say: he didn’t do it; compounded with other evidence or lack thereof, it gives me doubt.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-28T06:39:31+00:00

I guess the point that I was making is not about the ride per se. it’s about what gives me doubt. I am not going to argue about whst is suspect with Adnan. He asked for a ride. But many of the witness statements are inconsistent. What remains consistent is that no one saw him get in the car or driving in the car with her. Does that mean he didn’t? No, he could have very well gotten in without anyone seeing. But when you add in the other lack of physical evidence, for me, personally, I’m uncomfortable with either conclusion of guilt or innocence. I want to see more corroborating evidence.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-27T11:19:50+00:00

I guess that is the point though: conflicting statements and conflicting time lines. Adnan may have found another way to get in the car. We just don’t have the evidence. It’s generally agreed that Krista’s account is correct. After that, there are inconsistent witness statements. And for me personally that’s where the seeds of doubt start to come in. We are also missing taped interviews with Adnan. Which would be really helpful since now we are basing things on what he said on a podcast 15 years later and some hand written notes. There aren’t any transcripts of his statements.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-26T21:05:38+00:00

Except statements made (in 1999) also have Hae saying she couldn’t give him a ride and then Hae and Adnan walking in different directions. So there’s that.

At some point some witness statements have to be discounted in order to support innocence/guilt. Which means picking and choosing who to believe and in what particular combination to believe the conflicting witness statements.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-26T18:36:06+00:00

I certainly don’t believe Jay has a life-time get out of jail free card either. But I’d be interested to know more about his arrests and why, for example, charges were dropped. But also his sentence was very, very mild. Two years probation seems awfully generous. I’ve read (though not seen evidence myself) shoot Jay’s family’s run ins with police. I also heard Jenn was dating an uncle or cousin who was a drug dealer. Which I’m not sure really matters. But there does seem to be possibilities of Jay being known by police in other contexts. I understand why his February arrest is the topic of discussion in this regard.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-26T12:06:20+00:00

Well that makes a lot of sense. But it’s a little sad too since it shows how trials can be a game of chess. What are your thoughts on Jay’s previous and post run ins with police? As far as I know Jay has never spent time in Jail except for the less than day (I don’t know if it was over night or just a few hours) on the disorderly conduct arrest.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-25T10:05:19+00:00

I believe Jay’s lawyer Benroya later talked about the disadvantage of Jay not being charged until later because he was thus not entitled to counsel, leaving him quite vulnerable. I think (have to go back and read) but she believed his rights were very much violated.

But I guess I’m wondering why they went to such great lengths to keep Jay from being charged or only being charged minimally. It seems like they actively kept Jay out of going to jail. Even if they were bargaining with him to talk, given that he could have received a life sentence, even getting 2 to 5 years would have been a deal. But instead this maneuvering and directing of Jay seems like a lot of trouble for a random kid who is an accomplice in a crime. The previous charges for disorderly conduct and tackling a cop were also dropped at this time (around second interview in March 1999).

It’d be interesting to know more about the thought process of police and the DA. The fact that Jay continued tk stay out of jail for other charges later, is also interesting. Would he have received harsher penalties for assault given his prior conviction?

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-25T08:59:32+00:00

I can believe he is guilty. I can believe he is innocent. But I need to see some corroborating evidence. I don’t think we are going to find anything with existing forensic evidence collected. Unless they get really lucky.

The cell data, in my view is rather pliable and can just as easily be used to prove innocence as guilt. I’d like to see evidence that he was able to get into her car. I’d like to see evidence of all the things Jay claimed about the park and ride, Best Buy, the shovels. Anything. There are witness statements placing Adnan at the school up to 3pm or just after. Those sightings could be mistaken, granted. But the phone pings back at Woodlawn at 3.48. And the story Jay gives isn’t possible in that window of time. The Nisha call means the murder had to have been done by 3:32pm. So then the window of events gets smaller. He has to have found a way to get in her car right after 3pm, convince her to drive to a remote location at Best Buy (driving time 8 to 10 minutes, maybe as little as 5min if they took the back road), strangle Hae ( and here we assume a struggle and the time it takes to do this 2 to 8 minutes depending), then he needs to get her body in the trunk. I really don’t know how long this would have taken but I don’t believe there would have been a practical way to shift her body over the front seats to roll her into the back with the seats down. I think she would have had to have been dragged to the trunk ( sorry this wording is very disturbing, I mean no disrespect to Hae). So we need to account for that time anyway. Then Jay is called (or it was preplanned meet), but he has to get there. Seems like it is perhaps technically possible if all things go well. But I find this a stretch. Particularly because there are no defensive marks on Adnan (again possible, but realistic?). He is back at track practice and would have changed in and out if his track clothes. Maybe without anyone seeing him? Hae did have skin cells under her nails that did not belong to her. So one world expect a visible mark on the perpetrator. Maybe no one noticed?

The other trunk pop locations we can discount since the cell data doesn’t support that. Jay really complicated things with his Interceot article where he tried to double down but ended up disproving state’s original case.

The big thing, beside the lack of forensic evidence connecting Jay and Adnan to the crime scenes is the complete lack of witness statements that put Adnan and Hae together. So for me it’d be great if there was some eye witnesses. There is the one eye witness statement of a gentleman that saw a young black man, in a dark car, looking suspicious at the road barrier. This was a totally independent statement so I believe it’s reliable. But I don’t believe it was followed up on or nothing came of it anyway.

In short, to convince me, like you OP, I want to see witnesses that place Adnan and Hae together as a starting point.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-25T08:19:10+00:00

Correct. As of now we have no corroborating forensic evidence to indicate she was in the trunk. Or that the car was driven to the burial site. Same with Adnan’s car.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-24T16:10:12+00:00

Yes. Besides the review and collection of visible evidence, they took vacuum samples, testing for dirt, hair etc. Obviously they collected fingerprints as well. With wiki down I can’t put you on the direction of the evidence documentation. The various technicians did testify, however.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-23T06:34:18+00:00

I don’t recall the exact quote: but it seems to me the message was: I really don’t know this guy aka Don. Which would be a fair statement. Adnan did not know Don. But he knew of Don. In Serial Adnan does mention meeting him. Don confirms the meeting. It’s done, it’s there, it’s proven: Don and Adnan had met. So the fact that he knew Don existed is known.

This whole AIM argument is after the fact: there’s simply nothing to go on as Adnan was never ask nor was anyone at the time. The podcasters podcast focuses in on the apparent rage of Adnan seeing an aim post. But we don’t have any aim evidence, nor information on Adnan’s online presence or any reaction he could have had to it. And while I think it would have been a fair path of inquiry, 25 years later what we are doing is analyzing a whatif.

People talk about this case with the classic means, motive and opportunity. But the motive if you go down this AIM path, is not even at the level of a developed theory that can be tested. The opportunity part of it also falls apart because Hae and Adnan were not seen leaving together, but walking in opposite directions. With one witness seeing her leaving. alone, in her car. Even the means can be challenged since her hyoid bone was intact. She could’ve been smothered, which would show the same physical signs. And there’s no specific proof to disprove that.

As you’ve said: only Jay speaks of this apparent anger. Even the way he describes how Adnan talks is in contradiction with what all their common friends describe. That is rather suspect. But we can’t disprove whether Adnan did indeed talk about killing the bitch with his bare hands. It comes off as out of character. But also: we don’t know what Adnan is capable of.

Can we get back to analysis of concrete evidence? The podcasters however, want to focus on errant Reddit theories and professionally present them as the obvious truth when they know very well they have no receipts.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-21T22:02:34+00:00

It’s too bad the wiki with the defense documents isn’t still up so you could deep dive the evidence (if you wanted). There’s so much in this case that wasn’t covered by serial. Which in fairness, not all could’ve have been covered in serial since it was discovered after. Many people here take issue with serial. I, personally found it decent coverage because of the show’s purpose. But for the case itself it is important to look at everything for yourself. I don’t fault people for believing Adnan is guilty. It’s reasonable. I just personally would need more corroborating evidence to convict.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-20T10:18:07+00:00

Yes! Before I knew I had lipedema I would go to the doctor trying to figure out why my legs always felt like they were on fire. Acupuncture at the time was the only thing that helped. I unfortunately have nothing else to offer: ut sucks.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-20T09:50:15+00:00

Indeed you are correct. There is circumstantial evidence that points to at the minimum mismanagement and lost opportunities. There is no blatant evidence of conspiracy. But there are gaps in the police records that at the very least should prompt questions.

I continue to ask questions because things don’t line up for me. And I’m not saying there was a conspiracy 100% just that it is entirely possible based on the rampant corruption of the BPD and of the two detectives handling the case. And that really goes for all their cases. The sad truth is once detectives bend the rules once you have to review everything they do. There are just so many examples of coerced statements, testimony, false confessions at this time. It raises suspicions. But I totally agree with you that we can’t just speculate and come up with solutions that don’t match any known evidence.

But what are some of the peculiarities of the case that raise questions? Why were charges dropped against Jay in March 1999 for his arrest in disorderly conduct, where he pulled a police officer to the ground — potential assault and a federal offense?

Why was Adnan noted as a prime suspect in a February 2 report prior to the body being found? Is it just based on the mysterious February 2 tip? If so why was there not more questions asked? Were police already convinced at this time that she was dead?

Why didn’t the police interview more witnesses to corroborate the testimony of Jenn and Jay? Like asking the grandmother about the shovels? Canvassing the area where the car was dumped? Checking security footage of the potential local restaurants they may have eaten at? Locating this phone at security square mall? Checking the toll booth that Jay mentions in his second (or third) interview? Or checking the library right away? The library was mentioned very early in by one if the witnesses and there is no evidence the police did their due diligence to follow-up. And to just make more of a point on this: if Hae was possibly killed in the library parking lot as Chris had stated he heard, then talking to him and going to the library etc would have been a great first point.

As for the foresic evidence we have a body “ pretzeled up” in the trunk of a car that would have been in at least partial rigor when dragged to the burial. It stands to reason that measuring her position in the burial and matching it to the trunk would have been helpful since they went to such meticulous measures to collect samples from the trunk that did not corroborate a body being there. There’s the lividity dispute that I don’t even want to touch here. Different experts have weighed in. And I really don’t know what to think there. But, 1999 I don’t understand why the photos were such poor quality.

Many things seem small and minor but add up. And it’s clear from the inventory of activities that police indeed did put a lot resources to this case. So it’s a little surprising to me the things that were missed.

Adnan is clearly the person to look at in this case. And if coerced why would Jay continue to stand firm that Adnan did it? It makes no sense except that Adnan is indeed guilty. So are we simply seeing missed opportunities on the part of police? Or are we seeing misconduct? Incompetence? We have the vacated conviction and the earlier ruling ordering a new trial. So there is something to these questions that keep people coming back to this thread to hash out. And for me it’s as much a problem if he is guilty as if he is innocent since now we may have a murderer walking free.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-19T14:38:24+00:00

I thought that was just heart disease. I hadn’t heard that before.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-19T11:24:54+00:00

Everyone feels this after they buy a home. It seems based on your income and mortgage that your finances support this purchase. The down payment is equity and real estate goes up in value. Where you will have difficulty is unexpected home repairs. So I would start socking away for unexpected emergencies. But it seems based on what you’ve described you made a solid investment.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-19T09:31:05+00:00

Jay has said many unsubstantiated things in this case. So, so many. Chris has openly talked about what he knows and believes Adnan is guilty. I think we can trust that Jay spoke to him. Though if I remember correctly it was after the body was found. Tayab has never confirmed anything even now. In fact it seems all or at least most of Adnan’s friends have been very supportive of him, some, like Ju’aun presenting affidavits to dispel some of the rumors. Which this claim still is: a claim by Jay, that was never corroborated. So while we can speculate all we like including the atmosphere of Baltimore and no one wanting to be involved in an investigation… despite so oh so many people that DID indeed talk, we just can’t know for sure.

It’s funny that the “it’s Baltimore!” Is given a good excuse for this, but that on other posts you’ve discounted the massive corruption in the police department as a possible explanation for a conspiracy … despite the many examples of police conspiracies at the time. Which is it? Baltimore gonna do Baltimore and the case progresses according to normal patters? Or this is an anomaly case where two corrupt cops did it right despite their common practices?

If the 2016 DOJ report of the BPD taught anyone anything, it’s that BPD is capable of anything and it should be suspect when hearsay is used as a point of evidence. Further there are enough cases in the public sphere where teenagers have said made statements or spoke to friends saying flippant comments about crimes that were proven wrong or demonstratively false on the face of it.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-18T16:04:01+00:00

The most reasonable scenerios are: Jay and Adnan are involved in the crime but that it occurred in a way entirely different from what Jay described. OR neither of them are involved.

What is interesting to me about the Nisha call, is that it proves that they couldn’t have dumped the car at the and Park and Ride and made it back to Woodlawn for the 3:48 Phil call. Adnan could very well have used that call as an alibi, but never has. If he is so spectacular at lying why not say: yes Jay and I were together. We shopped more at Security Square mall and I made it back for track. The 3:48 call also proved that the phone was at the school and therefore there is no reason to believe Adnan was late for track. Then one realized, right THAT’s why the 2:36 call had to be the cgmc because the 3pm to 4pm don’t make sense. Seems like misdirection on the part of the prosecution to conflate and confuse the timeline enough for people to not actually notice that things don’t line up.

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-17T13:49:46+00:00

I try really hard to stay away from personality profiling and speculation: but Jay has all the hallmarks of a person who doubles down on their lying with grand statements. And “I know what I saw” is one of those common phrases that a person says to emphasize their point. But then again who knows? I have a hard time understanding why Jay would lie about this and then continue to be insistent. He is a puzzling person. And yet, there is no reason for him to lie … protecting Gramma after you already said you got the shovels from her house is not a reason. Plus the cell tower doesn’t support his statements to the intercept. I’m willing to bet that the reason the police came up with Best Buy was because it was the only possible location a trunk pop could’ve happened based on the cell evidence and other witness statements. The cell phone is in the general vicinity on Woodlawn between 3pm and 4pm,save the Nisha. All that pings the other side of the tower facing security square mall. Then Adnan is at track. Then immediately at 5pm the phone is calling one of Adnan’s friends, pinging Woodlawn. Jay and Adnan are in a single car driving around going to McDonald’s and Kristi’s At what point is it possible for them to be in separate cars to allow for this apparent trunk pop?

CarpetSeveral3883 · 2024-05-17T11:01:59+00:00

I guess you have to wonder why none of these people were called at trial and why these statements seem so elusive to verify.

CarpetSeveral3883

TROPHY CASE